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Back then, I thought that FF cars cannot drift; I thought powersliding is different from actual "drifting". After reading Honda Tuning,



They featured Keisuke Hatakeyama, a FF drift legend. You can visit his site (with his car) at: http://www.fdori-style.com/

Not believing that FF cars can drift, I did an extensive research on what exactly drifting is.

After watching the Drift Bible, Keiichi Tsuchiya, known as the Drift King, stated an entry level technique for drifting. Side drift, also known as pulling the e-brake, relys all on the e-brake.

Doesn't that apply to FF appkications? Tsuchiya never mentioned to step on the gas pedal during the corner.

Caucasian.Asian also posted an instruction of an "e-brake drift" from http://www.DriftSession.com.

Come to think of it, "powersliding" and "side drift (e-brake drift)" is a way to drift.

In bold, it does not say directly or indirectly that FF cars cannot drift. Therefore FF drives can drift. Then again, we all have our own definition of dirfting. Below are the vids I've mentioned. The vids maybe reposts, but the vids are just there to provide as evidence.

"Right click save target as..."

CRX drifting.

Civic (hatch) drifting.

Subaru Rex Turbo drifting. Yes they are FF layout. Click here fore specs (Subaru Rex Turbo).

How to side drift (Civic hatch) with FF Drift Legend, Keisuke Hatakeyama.

FF Drift Legend, Keisuke Hatakeyama, drifting against two 240.

If you like what I've compiled, rep points would be nice.

 
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gj, nice videos

 
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I read that article too...I knew ff cars could drift already but I was always intrigued by how. I can't wait to download your videos to watch the cars closely. If you ever wanna see real ff cars drive hit california and hit a small city called Glendora. They have a road called glendora mountain road. Its usually only open in the summer because its soo narrow and curvy and has alot of hairpins. Just like in initial d alot of street cars that are both types of layouts come to drift the turns and race. Some nights there can be up to 50 cars parked at the peak of the mountain.

 
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yeah, by definition a FWD car cannot drift. as stated it's called powersliding. it's a misnomer. just like we call nitrous NOS

 
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I thought a lot of people would be interested in this. I guess not. Heh.

 
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After watching the vids I find ff drifting to have less style....

 
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i STILL consider it drifting. NO WHERE does it say drifting is only for RW drive cars, and if it does, someone provide a link.
oh, yeah. thanks for quoting me.

 
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That is an excellent post. I was once ignorant, too, and swore up and down that a FF car cannot drift. But that is ignorance talking. After talking to people who have been in the drifting scene for awhile you come to realize how respected Hatakeyama is. If what Hatakeyama does on the track isn't drifting, he wouldn't have received the amount of acclaim or respect from his peers in the drifting world that he has. Drifting is more than what kind of car you drive. There are plenty of people driving around in FR cars that can barely cut the back tires loose. It takes a truly talented driver, one who is so in tune with the car that they have the ability to move the car's weight in ways that sometimes seem to defy physics. Bottom line: "Drifting" is not just the FR kids... even the real "Drifting" kids know this.

I'd send rep points your way... if only I knew how

 
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Nice post. +1 rep.

 
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props to him...but that seems like a waste of rear tires! lol

great skill tho! just not economical as RWD drifting

 
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does he have rear disc brakes? Does rear disc brakes hold the wheels in a locked position better?

 
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Good post. Drifting is fun in the civic and the 180sx.

 
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It's not written, but it's common sense that a FWD car cannot induce oversteer without the E-brake, at which point it is not a drift, but a powerslide.

 
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yup.

the definition of drifting is this.


using the car's power to break traction on the rear wheels, causing the car to slide sideways in a controlled oversteer before the apex of a turn.


a couple things here. A fwd car cannot do this controlled without using the e-brake. at which point, it becomes a powerslide, NOT A DRIFT. also, in FWD cars they generally do not do this until at or after the apex, which again, by definition is a powerslide, NOT A DRIFT. The reason a FWD car cannot do this before the apex of the first powerslide, is due to the fact that since the front wheels are the driving wheels, using the e-brake to induce a powerslide before the apex would cause the car to go off the track, rather than powerslide around the curve of the turn. A RWD car can use throttle/power to continue to push the car around the curve of the turn in a controlled oversteer before the apex. This alone is something a FWD can't even physically do because of the laws of physics.

So, sorry guys. FWD cars cannot drift, by definition. They can only do a powerslide.


however, as I stated, the sport of powersliding in FWD cars has become so popular they simply throw the term drifting in for simplification.

 
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I saw that cover car drift at GT Live/D1GP.

 
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So what you're trying to say, the first method of drifting in the Drift Bible, which is side drift (e-brake drift), Keiichi Tsuchiya, the Drift King, was powersliding in a S14? He simply stated to pull the e-brake at the corner entrance then counter steer then wait until you face the corner exit direction then you step on the gas. Doesn't that apply to FF cars too? If that's the case, since side drift (e-brake drift) is a fundemental of drifting, then I guess powerslide is another term for side drift (e-brake drift)? And if that's the case, then FF cars can drift then. Correct me if I'm wrong.

And where did you find that defination of drifting? You have to use the car's power to break traction on the rear wheels in order to drift? Then again, I guess Keiichi Tsuchiya, the Drift King, was powersliding in an S14 in the "Drift" Bible. Then what is side drift (e-brake drift)? Below I quoted and backed up with a source of what drift is.

Is this not the definition of "drift"? If not, then someone should correct them noh'?

 
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Not nessisaily true... Throttle lift works very well, if you're trying to get a car to FF car to oversteer. Come out to our next autocross, its this weekend, Sunday out at Sam Boyd stadium. you'll see plenty of FF cars with oversteer issues..., all with out touching the E-brake.

 
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^yup, just like rijowysock and his new TEIN FLEX
http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=201459
he said he can slide around sideways without even trying, but the posts got deleted???

 
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Anybody else want to claim that Tsuchiya and ZZYZX are wrong? Good luck.

 
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THe problem with FF and drifting doesnt lie with weather or not Fwd can create oversteer naturally. Because you can easily tune a FWD car to oversteer. The problem lies with the Hows and whys. See, FWD can be enticed to oversteer naturally under braking (Corner entry) BUT. as soon as you get back on the gas for corner exit, you'll start to lose that Oversteer (weight gets transfered to the rear = more traction on the rear = Less oversteer). So inorder to maintain that oversteer past the point where you've gotten back on the gas to exit the corner, you must Force a loss of traction at the rearend... ushually with the E-Brake. (You can Heavily Left foot brake too...) With RWD, you get that same oversteer under braking as FWD, but you also get the ability to continue that oversteer after you've gotten back on the gas, by simply over powering the rear wheels. Thats the difference between FWD and RWD when it comes to drifting.

 
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what he was doing in the S14 with the e-brake was NOT a powerslide. he starts the drift with the e-brake, however, he then uses the power of the engine to control his oversteer and push him through the turn. that's a drift.

once you are using more e-brake than anything to control your drift, it becomes a powerslide. obviously since a FWD car cannot control it's drift with anything but the e-brake, it's a powerslide. definition of powerslide is using the e-brake at or after the apex in order to control oversteer and slide through the corner. that's not what he was doing in the S14.


again, drifting involves using the engine's power to control the oversteer. something you can't do in a FWD car. in a FWD car you must use the e-brake to control your oversteer around the corner. this is a power slide.

starting the oversteer with the e-brake can be used in either method. it's what you control the oversteer with that determines whether it's a powerslide or drift.

Also generally when drifting, the loss of traction on the rear wheels is caused before the apex of a turn. This means that some RWD cars actually do a powerslide, rather than drifting, for the simple fact that they began their "drift" after the apex.

But, i see that Tsuchiya is trying to change the definition of a drift to include powersliding. If he "changes" it so be it, however, to the people that participated in the sport before his time, drifting and powersliding will always be 2 different things. It's interesting that a powerslide is called a power over, but then they say "oh well it's a form of drifting". Whereas I can simply say drifting is drifting. Again, changing the definition doesn't mean that drifting didn't use to mean something else.

Personally, I think it's stupid that he's trying to "change" the definition of drifting.

 
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Also an interesting discussion I found on a japanese website.

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a


as stated, he's trying to change the definition of drifting to include the powersliding that FWD cars do.

 
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so this took you like what 10 min to put together, lol J/K that is alot of info, good job man rep points+

 
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from drifting.com

Drifting is a sort of controlled loss of control of your car. When you drift, you use the weight and momentum of your car to move it laterally while it is still moving forward. In most cases, drifting is meant to bring the back end of the car around a turn faster than the front, while countersteering with the front wheels to maintain control and proper vehicle attitude. This is done by powering the engine to break traction on the rea wheels, and using that power to push the car through the turn. Alternately, a drift will occur when exiting a turn, when your outside tires are overloaded and lose traction, forcing your car toward the edge of the road. This is desirable because you can reach greater turn exit speeds by travelling at or near full throttle, but only if you can regain traction before your car slides off the road. Drifting is a knife-edge sort of driving technique, where you must be smooth and remain in control or else you will either slow the car unnecessarily or spin out.

As opposed to drifting, which is a controlled technique, sliding is a more wild technique with less control. A slide (or powerslide) occurs when all four wheels break traction after the apex and simply scrub along the road. Sliding is controlled by using the e-brake. Sliding is, in nearly all cases, slower than drifting for several reasons: First, you have no or very little traction during a slide, eliminating control of your car. When you are sliding, you cannot properly position your car for or during a turn as quickly and easily as you could while drifting. You must first slow your car until you regain traction, then adjust attitude. Secondly, you cannot accelerate as fast from a slide as you can from a drift. In rear-drive cars, properly accelerating from a drift will cause the rear tires to regain traction, providing acceleration. With a slide, you must again slow enough to regain traction before giving the car gas will do any good. The only time sliding is a useful technique is as a last-ditch effort to avoid going off the road or colliding with another object, or, sometimes as an advanced technique for off-road rally racing.

Powersliding is not drifting by definition.

 
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Of course it can oversteer, I have no idea what would make you thikn it can't. i oversteered powerslided my stock vic two weeks while hard cornering and braking while turning. The rear end was skewed out and I slid for a bit. And I didn't need to lock the rear wheels using the hand brake. Drive an RSX Type S that car is tail end happy even in its stock form.

 
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^^right but what you did was for a very short time, hardly enough time at all. if a FWD car goes into oversteer by simply cornering too fast, and nothing is done to control that oversteer with the e-brake, or correct it, then you will spin out.

 
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I think its stupid to say there is a true definition of drifting, it is simply entering the turn sideways, and taking the turn without losing control. An FF car can drift, it just depends on the skill of the driver. I really don't see any difference in drifting or powersliding as long as it is controlled. Drifting is an exhibitionist sport, and all approaches to driving sideways should be considered. Drifting evolved from touge races, so no one really stated the true rules of what is drifting and what isn't. But that's just me, if I see an FF car drifting good, i'll give a LOT of respect to that driver, because he deserves it.
Anyway, that's just my opinion.

 
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If that's the case, then FF cars can drift.

Do you have a direct link of that definition? I tried looking fer it and can't seem to find it. Although I found this there.

May be he should correct it to "FF Powerslide" or perhaps it shouldn't be even in the guide since it's not considered as drifting? I also found this from http://www.autosportz.com/article_what_is_drifting.htm

A "main drift technique used in FWD vehicles."

What is a powerslide? It says on http://www.driftsession.com/glossary.htm

So isn't idea of drifting come from controlling your powerslide?

 
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You guys realize that the whole basis of this argument is simply what is the Definition of a Drift (as defined in the import world)


Drift in the race world is something completly different (almost)

 
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Well, as I had pointed out the definition of drifting vs powerslide is different. And a FWD car can't drift, it can only powerslide.

But since it appears that the definitions are being changed to incorporate powersliding as drifting, what else can I say?

To many, myself included, drifting will always be what the current/previous definition of drifting is/was.