Hondata ECU-Show Support
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Hondata ECU-Show Support
Anyone interested in Hondata make an upgrade for our cars, go show your support in their forum on their website. A D17 post thread has already been started under applications.
http://hondata.com/forum/index.php
http://hondata.com/forum/index.php
Last edited by sleekcivic2004; Dec 7, 2004 at 01:04 AM. Reason: added link
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Yup... not happening That k swap is looking better and better quote from hondata
I don’t think most people realize the amount if work it takes to reverse engineer an ECU, the build hardware and software tools to expand the ECUs capabilities and to allow people to tune the ECU. We have evaluated what options we have with the D17, and have determined that the only economically feasible option will not work, so it is unlikely that we will develop anything for the D17. If it helps to give an idea of development time the RSX took almost 2 years. Your estimation of investment payback is out by an order of magnitude. Sorry. If anything changes, we will let you know, as we would like to cover as many models as possible.
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Originally Posted by djmota
Yup... not happening That k swap is looking better and better quote from hondata
I don't agree with their assesment of the situation.
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Rep Power: 332 put me down on that forum for voting for the D17a1 DX style baby! I couldn't register myself, so I couldn't post a reply there. thanks
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Rep Power: 0 They obv dont relize the demand for a product like this. To me it seems stupid why they wouldent devolope it. It cant cost that much money to develope it. We should email them something about all the people interested in buying it if they developed it, mayb that will change there mind.
Originally Posted by nickm748
They obv dont relize the demand for a product like this.
Originally Posted by nickm748
To me it seems stupid why they wouldent devolope it. It cant cost that much money to develope it.
At least 9 months to develop
$60k/year for an engineer
100% overhead/management/building etc...
$5K in R&D parts
= $95K
All for a product that wholesales for less than $800, and they sell it to tuners for wholesale, not retail. Probably costs them $400 each to make which means $400 GP each, that means 240 units just to recover costs.
They can't skimp on the development because if something goes wrong the internet keyboard jockeys massacare them for doing their R&D on production units.
Last edited by Mirage; Dec 9, 2004 at 01:16 PM.
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Rep Power: 304 ^^^^^^^^^^I'm not sure if the person who started that thread about 85% actually spoke to anyone from Hondata. I think he just viewed posts in the Hondata forum about the D17. At most maybe posted a message their. I've posted twice on the forum and they currently have no ECU, and they say they have tried something(I think k-series ECU) which didn't work. I never called or met the guys from Hondata. To make things happen you need contacts and money, no one cares about a few enthusiasts posting on forums. I am personally from Canada and I am not a mechanic. If I was very interested I would have registered a business gotten a civic to test out, and brought it down to Hondata and helped out with testing and been pushy about it. We wont get results like this. We aren't professional enough about our requests. Maybe write a business case have the ECU specs, have some dudes that will be able to create the software to send firmware commands to the car also have a dyno and a professional tell us the result of the changed ECU settings, all which costs $$ and takes time.
Just reading this post, I could already see how difficult it would be get a return on investment on such a project.
Originally Posted by Mirage
I think that they realize that the demand would be quite limited relative to other projects they can spend their resources on. While some people are fixing up their D17's, most hard core people are swapping them out. And only hard core people spend $1,000+ in a fuel management system. Alot of people talk about it, but few actually step up and do it.
Sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. If they sold 50 units, they would not even come close to recovering costs, let alone make a profit, and they would be that much further behind on other products. They would have to sell 250+ to even think about it, and with even the most rose-colored glasses, there are not 250+ people who still have D17's who would pay for it. As to the cost to develop it, think on the order of $100K+ as a minimum.
At least 9 months to develop
$60k/year for an engineer
100% overhead/management/building etc...
$5K in R&D parts
= $95K
All for a product that wholesales for less than $800, and they sell it to tuners for wholesale, not retail. Probably costs them $400 each to make which means $400 GP each, that means 240 units just to recover costs.
They can't skimp on the development because if something goes wrong the internet keyboard jockeys massacare them for doing their R&D on production units.
Sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. If they sold 50 units, they would not even come close to recovering costs, let alone make a profit, and they would be that much further behind on other products. They would have to sell 250+ to even think about it, and with even the most rose-colored glasses, there are not 250+ people who still have D17's who would pay for it. As to the cost to develop it, think on the order of $100K+ as a minimum.
At least 9 months to develop
$60k/year for an engineer
100% overhead/management/building etc...
$5K in R&D parts
= $95K
All for a product that wholesales for less than $800, and they sell it to tuners for wholesale, not retail. Probably costs them $400 each to make which means $400 GP each, that means 240 units just to recover costs.
They can't skimp on the development because if something goes wrong the internet keyboard jockeys massacare them for doing their R&D on production units.
Last edited by nindoo; Dec 9, 2004 at 01:24 PM.
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Yeah, I was thinking about it... Out of the 300k Civics sold anually, how many of those go to tuners? Most of the ones that do go to tuners get the more powerful k20...
If Honda keeps using the D17 for another generation or so, I think it would be worth the investment.
If Honda keeps using the D17 for another generation or so, I think it would be worth the investment.
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Originally Posted by CivicsRdBest
Yeah, I was thinking about it... Out of the 300k Civics sold anually, how many of those go to tuners? Most of the ones that do go to tuners get the more powerful k20...
If Honda keeps using the D17 for another generation or so, I think it would be worth the investment.
If Honda keeps using the D17 for another generation or so, I think it would be worth the investment.
Or if there was there was some racing league, or set of competitons where the D17a2 were used. But I don't think its gonna happen. I think there are many K20s used in racing, great way for Hondata to market its products and show its credibility.
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Rep Power: 0 Yea I never really thought about it that way Mirage, but you didnt have to be an *** about it. lol. I mean I think there would be at least 250 people that would buy it if they did a good job with the chip. People buy cat backs for around 500$ that only give about 3-4 hp's. I could see people spending 800 for a chip that would make use out of other mods and being realistic give about 10-20hp's. Im not really sure if you could get 10-20hps from a chipped d17 but it sounds about right to me.
But just like Nindoo said we really need to take this to the next level and show hondata how serious we are by presenting the info in a professional manner.
But just like Nindoo said we really need to take this to the next level and show hondata how serious we are by presenting the info in a professional manner.
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Rep Power: 343 Look at the number of cars here with body kits compared to the number of cars with turbo kits and there is your reason why they don't care... hate to be blunt but it's the truth.
Sorry nickm748, I didnt intend to be an *** about it, just stating what I thought. And comparing it to a bolt on is NG since you dont have to take an exhaust down to get tuned after you install it.
IMHO, the total market for this piece over the next 5 years is under 50. But, we'll see because AEM is supposed to release an EMS that will work on a 7G within a month or so. The only reason they are doing it is because it will be the same part number for the cars with a K-Swap so the sales numbers are there.
Once it gets released, come back and look at all the people who said they would "definitely buy one" and compare that list with those that actually do. unfortunately, talk is cheap but an EMS or Hondata is not.
Again, sorry if I came off as an *** to you, I'm just at work and typing really fast so it may sound curt.
John
IMHO, the total market for this piece over the next 5 years is under 50. But, we'll see because AEM is supposed to release an EMS that will work on a 7G within a month or so. The only reason they are doing it is because it will be the same part number for the cars with a K-Swap so the sales numbers are there.
Once it gets released, come back and look at all the people who said they would "definitely buy one" and compare that list with those that actually do. unfortunately, talk is cheap but an EMS or Hondata is not.
Again, sorry if I came off as an *** to you, I'm just at work and typing really fast so it may sound curt.
John
Originally Posted by Hawk
Look at the number of cars here with body kits compared to the number of cars with turbo kits and there is your reason why they don't care... hate to be blunt but it's the truth.
Don't drink and post, you will end up hilarious.
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Look at the number of cars here with body kits compared to the number of cars with turbo kits and there is your reason why they don't care... hate to be blunt but it's the truth.
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Originally Posted by Got Boost???
Translation - "You are all filthy filthy ricers, bow down to my K20!"
hahaha
Dont worry about it mirage, we all can be ***'s sometimes with out meaning it.
Does any one have the specs for that AEM ems?
