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I accidentally posted this in the Vehicle Issues Forum.

D17s are economy engines. They are designed for fuel economy and reliability. D17s are not designed for racing. So these are the roads we take:

Bolt-ons:

After dumping $1,500 in bolt-ons (intake, header, exhaust, cam gears, intake manifold, spark plugs, ECU,) you're putting 140hp to the wheels and probably still running 15's. Congratulations, you can now beat a Taurus.

Swaps:

You're tired of your low gain, economy D17a2, so you drop $8,000 and get yourself a K20a2, a 6-speed transaxle, and all the goodies for a swap. Not quite the best financial decision you made, but you are now running 14's. Congratulations, you can now beat a V6 Mustang.

Forced Induction:

Or you turbocharge your D17. Full SF kit, 180hp to the wheels, $4,000 later and you're running 14's. Probably the most cash effecient way of making your Civic move. Congratulations, you can now beat an RSX Type-S.

Next you upgrade your internals (pistons, valve springs, injectors, etc), up the pressure to 15psi, $1,000 later you're running 13's. Congratulations, you can now beat a Camaro Z28.

Nitrous:

Assuming you still have your SF kit, $500 later, you spray and run low 13's. Congratulations, you can now beat a 911 Carrera.

Swap+Turbo:

Ah yes, the ol' Turbo'd K20in an econobox. Either you have an excellent job and for some reason you like Civics rather than BMWs or your parents are filthy rich and give you anything you want. About $12,000 later you own a Civic that runs, quite possibly, 12's. Congratulations, you can now beat a Corvette.

Why do we subject ourselves to such pain, sweat, time fending off import haters, while our wallets continue to get thinner just to build a car that runs with production sports cars? No, there moght not be any logic to it all, but we do it anyways. Why? What is the attraction to turning a cheap car into a fast cheap car? The world may never know.

 
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it is a challenge to make slower cars faster. I had fun making my car faster, but in the end..........i regret wasting my money

 
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i love sleepers.

 
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Why? all you do is mod your car and **********.. what would you have spent your money on?

All your **** was free off of kazaa and ares..

 
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its just the need to wana take some1 by surprise

no1 expects you to beat them in a civic... especially the conceited ppl in their camros and TAs

 
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everyone has their own reason to mod their own cars. i chose to mod my car to be different from any other. and the investments i spent were well worth it.. stereo,tint,handy-down lips,etc.

 
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Like the saying goes...
Don't follow the same road...make your own.

Heres my explaination using the best subject possible...sex!

Getting a fast car right out of the box is like injecting sperm into an egg on a petree dish...you got just what you wanted, a baby.

Now starting off with a Civic and making it fast is like having wild sex all night long til you dry out...you also got what you wanted, a baby.

The point is...we all have different ways of reaching the same goals. =)

 
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It's not the attraction of turning a cheap car into a fast car, It's for the love of the car that makes it want to do things with it. You didn't just buy a Civic because that's all you can afford. There are alternatives in the Civic price range. I choose my 2002 Civic because of Honda's record of relyability, quality and for the love of my own Civic. I do what modifications to it now and in the future because it's a hobby. They do have a lot of potential in the "modding" world.

 
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we all know that
$$$=hp
and i think that with any car is the same thing just different results
also what "likeaferio" said is very true

 
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Thats great thats more WHP that an SI or base RSX, that must a fun car.

 
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I realized this a bit too late. I wish I had a GSR.

 
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I just wanna look different. And apparently dressing all metrosexual style isn't enough for me, so I've applied gaudy and useless modifications (mostly cosmetic) to my car, which, if my butt dyno is accurate, is at least a good second slower now on the quarter. But I love doing it, and that should be enough reason.

 
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repost

 
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I'd rather dump my money into my car than into my other money sucking habits i.e. strip clubs, booze, ******, ex-wife, stocks that lose money, gambling. Going to vegas and my civic are the only things where I dump my money on that A) improves my self esteem, b) actually makes me happy, c) I always have fun.

 
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If you spend 12,000 on your Civic then you get one fast car. 12,000 does not buy you a fast new production car. The reason this tuner trend exists is because car makers have upped the price tag of sports cars where most people 18 - 24 cannot afford them quite frankly. In addition to this insurance rates have sky rocketed affecting mostly 18-24 year old males. If you are spending 12,000 on your civic to make it fast as a corvette then that is nothing compared to the 60,000+ price tag of a corvette and the insurance rates you will pay on that car. It is a reaction to the inflation rates of cars and insurance that have made driving a fast car available only to the rich.

 
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But you forgot to add the price of your Civic. Your 7th gen brand new is like $16,000. Add in the $12,000 you said, and you have a $28,000 Civic. I could get a Z28, a brand new MGT, or a WRX for that price. And your Insurance thing; I did Progressive's online policy estimator, and if I wanted a 2005 Mustang GT my premium would only raise about $25 a month. After talking to an associate, they said it was because my Civic is listed as a sports car because it's a 2 door, 5 speed, and has the top of the line engine (EX). Too bad they don't look at the 127hp part.

 
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^^^^^^^^If you invest 12 grand in the performance of 7th gen civic ex coupe it will have a sickening display of performance.

On the insurance note if I invested 10 grand on my car I'd have it appraised, the insurance would probably be even higher than the insurance on a mustang GT.

I agree with you in terms of saving money, its not gonna happen.

 
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slllllllllllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeepeeeeeeer no one would ever expect a 7th gen to be fast.. just imagine...

 
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since when did anyone get 140 WHP from bolt ons and what kind of ECU?!?

 
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^^^^^^ that caught your eye to. Yeah only 1500 bucks to.

 
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k20 swaps have gone down considerably. $8000 is what it would take to swap in a k20a, not a2. an a2 swap would be around $6000, and then you would be in low 14's.

$4000 for an sf kit would get you into the low 14's around 8-9 psi, yes. now here's the discrepancy ... it takes MUCH more than $1000 to upgrade your internals. You're going to need a new headgasket, pistons ($500 for custom pistons, prove me wrong), injectors, probably about $4-500 for custom valve springs (prove me wrong), and you're forgetting LABOR. for all that, it will take a MINIMUM of $500 for labor unless you're skilled enough to do it yourself (and if you can do all that for yourself, you can swap a k20a2/k20a yourself .. if you want to add labor to the swap, remember to add labor to the internals buildup). IF part of your "etc" to your internals buildup consists of custom rods too, then add another $500 to that. Then more labor on top of that.

15 psi, hm? how long are your internals gonna last on 15 psi? ... maybe they'll hold out, yes .. but I guaranteed not nearly as long as a k20 motor.

but we know how reliable turbos are in d17's. just ask the many who have sold their kits...

 
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I dont really mod my car that much at all but there is a really good reason to mod economy cars. they are light, very light in the case of a civic. If you figure that a civic ex is only a little over 2500lbs and a 350z is in the 3200lb range power goes a lot farther for us. I know this doesnt apply that much to dragracing where most of your examples come from but light weight is everything to handeling. Miatas arent great sports cars because they run fast times in the 1/4, they are great sports cars because they are light and well balanced. thats a lot easier to achieve in a small car then in a nearly 2 ton "performance car". Not to hate at all cause I love big fast cars just as much as my small one

 
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yep 02civike said it

 
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AMEN to that! Secondly, I love hondas. I always have and always will. On a third note, I like being the underdog.

 
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don't be fooled rich folks drive civics too. they want dependability, good mileage, and value. they just pay cash or lease them.

Only filthy rich folks drive exotics. Civics are pretty fast out of the box, it doesn't take much to fix them up, but yeah I suppose if you wanted a lot of horsies, and top speed was your game you could pick up a used camaro, mustang or something like that.

 
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Thats true, my friend has a bimmer and his old 200sx. He drives the 200sx to work and drives the bimmer when he goes out. The reason being, is that when he goes from his house to the mall and back thats already a half of tank of premium gas gone lol. His 200sx takes like 1 gallon of cheapo gas.


The reason people mod there cars is because its a hobby. Like any hobby its basically a waste of money if you look at it in how efficent you can use the money you earn, its a big waste of money that can be use in other ways to further benefit yourself economically, but that money wasting hobby brings you happniess.


Anytime, you spend money on your car that isn't a maintence or repair. Its money that could've gone to buy a better car or to increase your 401k. But that mod makes your car unique and people like being individualistic in how they dress, there homes and cars. In the end thats how capitalism works, if people only bought what they needed then the economy would collapse....so just look at it as contributing to the economy

 
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very well said. my dad was a lawyer making wads of cash for over 20 years before he bought his mercedes, yes he could have bought one right out of law school, but he just needed economy, and mileage. I could have bought a brand new corvette in August but the thought of 7 or so miles per gallon, and the insurance was enough to make me go straight to Honda, and Civic is a fun car to hook up.

 
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Turbo's are as reliable on d17's as any other motor. All it takes is planning, research, balance, and common sense. Do your research and talk to people (shops, honda techs (or techs in general for non-honda), mechanics). If a car is unreliable because of a turbo it caused from lack of patience/parts(availability)/money. Kids, do your research, be patient and save your money to get the parts you need. Have them made if necessary; yes I know it costs more money, but I am on the subject of being reliable. I have had custom vehicles since I was 16. I have got ahead of myself, when I was younger, and not planned/researed things out and what has been the end product? Unreliability!

I'm not pin pointing anybody out. I just thought this was a good quote to offer my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

 
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For people questioning where I got my dollar values from, I was just coming up with quick estimates, I didnt really crunch numbers. That, and my 140 whp estimate was quite high. I suppose it would really be more like 115-120whp.