Mazdaspeed 6 Official.
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Mazdaspeed 6 Official.
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...er=mazdaSpeed6
Looks really promising, yet I read this on another forum:
Thoughts?
Looks really promising, yet I read this on another forum:
Originally Posted by crossbow (rx8club.com)
Here I thought you'd guys be actually tearing the car apart...Well since I own a 6, I'll help bash it with you.
Failures of the Mazda 6 MPS
1) A redesigned hood so they could fit a "top mounted intercooler"...yet absolutely zero airflow for the intercooler. Yay. Maybe they were going to put a scoop, decided against it, and didn't have time to put a front mounted intercooler on the car. Or maybe they don't care.
2) A FWD car, touted as AWD. Lots of fancy terminology and techno speak for a car that drives around as 100:0, and only splits torque to the rear when wheel slipage occurs, and only then (worst here) at a 50:50 ratio. Unlike car's such as the Volvo S60R (30:70), or subaru legacy (45:55 normally), Mazda's solution is basically "ultra" FWD.
3) For some reason they choose to identically copy the Acura TL grill. Maybe they ran out of ideas? The standard A-spec Mazdaspeed6 was far nicer.
4) It appears that the transfer case is "water cooled" or to quote the fancy pr speak completely...
"The Power Take Off (PTO) system that that aggressively distributes torque to the rear axle is fitted with its own water-cooled cooling system. "
Which all sounds good and nice...till you read between the lines. Why the hell does the transfer case "NEED" to be water cooled. Manufacturers don't just "add" neato "cooling features" without some dire need to. Who wants to bet the transfer case will snap in half without water cooling? Maybe this is why its max rear distribution is only a maximum of 140 ft/lbs of torque.
5) Mazda did nothing to the fender wells. Their still extremely narrow in the rear, and any type of aggressive rims (aka x8 inch wide wheels) require rolling. Their replacement mazdaspeed wheels are just heavier 18x7 wheels with 215/45/18 rubber. Sigh.
6) Cost...I think I'll take an Evo MR, Rx8, or used Z06 instead.
7) Internals? Are they beefed up? A Standard 6i has a cast iron crank, standard pistons, and sinister forged rods. Its massive stroke of 94 mm leaves its rods extremely vulnerable to damage, even with minor boost levels (if they didn't beef them up heavily). See miata's for more information on long stroke piston motors.
I hope they aren't pulling an MSP.
Failures of the Mazda 6 MPS
1) A redesigned hood so they could fit a "top mounted intercooler"...yet absolutely zero airflow for the intercooler. Yay. Maybe they were going to put a scoop, decided against it, and didn't have time to put a front mounted intercooler on the car. Or maybe they don't care.
2) A FWD car, touted as AWD. Lots of fancy terminology and techno speak for a car that drives around as 100:0, and only splits torque to the rear when wheel slipage occurs, and only then (worst here) at a 50:50 ratio. Unlike car's such as the Volvo S60R (30:70), or subaru legacy (45:55 normally), Mazda's solution is basically "ultra" FWD.
3) For some reason they choose to identically copy the Acura TL grill. Maybe they ran out of ideas? The standard A-spec Mazdaspeed6 was far nicer.
4) It appears that the transfer case is "water cooled" or to quote the fancy pr speak completely...
"The Power Take Off (PTO) system that that aggressively distributes torque to the rear axle is fitted with its own water-cooled cooling system. "
Which all sounds good and nice...till you read between the lines. Why the hell does the transfer case "NEED" to be water cooled. Manufacturers don't just "add" neato "cooling features" without some dire need to. Who wants to bet the transfer case will snap in half without water cooling? Maybe this is why its max rear distribution is only a maximum of 140 ft/lbs of torque.
5) Mazda did nothing to the fender wells. Their still extremely narrow in the rear, and any type of aggressive rims (aka x8 inch wide wheels) require rolling. Their replacement mazdaspeed wheels are just heavier 18x7 wheels with 215/45/18 rubber. Sigh.
6) Cost...I think I'll take an Evo MR, Rx8, or used Z06 instead.
7) Internals? Are they beefed up? A Standard 6i has a cast iron crank, standard pistons, and sinister forged rods. Its massive stroke of 94 mm leaves its rods extremely vulnerable to damage, even with minor boost levels (if they didn't beef them up heavily). See miata's for more information on long stroke piston motors.
I hope they aren't pulling an MSP.
Thoughts?
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well...i think mazdaspeed puts out decent products, and considering that its a 2006 model i think they still have time to work out all the kinks...but then again, its mazdas attempt to compete with luxo sport coupes at a lower price...which doesnt really work i dont think.
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Rep Power: 328 No doubt, I loved my Mazdaspeed Protege, but there were a few things that could have been, well... better sorted out by Mazda. Personally, I think the MS6 looks to be a good alternative but as pointed out on the other forum, it could use some more tweaks.
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Rep Power: 287 I like how they did the intro to the car on that site. And is the shifter really like that, with the reverse on the left side?
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Rep Power: 0 Did they discontinue the Mazdaspeed Protoge? I think I read somewhere that they had problems with the turbos? Those Protoges were reaaaally nice. Especially one in orange! OMG, total orgasmic car.
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Originally Posted by nonVTEC
I like how they did the intro to the car on that site. And is the shifter really like that, with the reverse on the left side?
2.3 liter inline 274hp 280tq are they trying to compete with the STI and EVO?
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Originally Posted by DVnAFI
Did they discontinue the Mazdaspeed Protoge? I think I read somewhere that they had problems with the turbos? Those Protoges were reaaaally nice. Especially one in orange! OMG, total orgasmic car.
As far as the MS6 competing with Sti, and EVO, I don't think Mazda means to compete with them directly. They're aiming to compete with the germans, and with acura, infiniti, and lexus. Mazda has never been a company to brag about horsepower and torque numbers, but rather a company to promote well balanced cars.
If you look at the scope of international interest as far as automotive performance, the rest of the world is more concerned with well balanced, insanely agile handling cars, with decent power output. Americans are more about dragging. Which explains the muscle cars and what not. I think the MS6 definitely looks interesting, and I'd like to see what they come out with.
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Rep Power: 318 looks like they want to share the older market with with GTO. It has the im to subtle look to it...
Also not much air going to intercooler as noted..
Balanced yes but if its priced in the rang of the imprezza and evo chasis it will be rated against them. 4 wheel drive 6 gears turbocharged sounds like more attempt at the wrx STI, Evo 8 market. EVoMR comes out next year as well and the current evo already has gods feet on handling can't wait to see how that one goes.
as for competition with audi a4? Bmw 3 series? acura tl? umm its a mazada that was like volkswagon coming out with thier 50 grand luxo sedan. It never solds because it was a volkswagon.
Name does alot to US buyers... and that doesnt have the interior of a 3 series or a4.
Also not much air going to intercooler as noted..
Balanced yes but if its priced in the rang of the imprezza and evo chasis it will be rated against them. 4 wheel drive 6 gears turbocharged sounds like more attempt at the wrx STI, Evo 8 market. EVoMR comes out next year as well and the current evo already has gods feet on handling can't wait to see how that one goes.
as for competition with audi a4? Bmw 3 series? acura tl? umm its a mazada that was like volkswagon coming out with thier 50 grand luxo sedan. It never solds because it was a volkswagon.
Name does alot to US buyers... and that doesnt have the interior of a 3 series or a4.
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Rep Power: 328 You couldn't be more wrong. Ford is a very smart company as an INVESTOR. They have purchased a part of every market including ASTON MARTIN. Still think that's a Ford in disguise? Ford owns a 32% share in Mazda stock. This doesn't mean Mazda uses Ford designs. Mazda operates and does it's R&D independently of its parent company. Ford does however, use technologies from its daughter companies. Ford has large shares in volvo, jaguar and range rover as well. Expect to see a jaguar spinoff of the RX-8 in the next couple of years. If anything, Ford has gotten more RELIABLE because of the R&D readily available to them from their daughter companies.
Mazda is and always will remain MAZDA. Ford has no hand in their design. It's marketing and economics people. Ford knows their designs are generally poor, so instead of putting more money into R&D, they simply buy shares of the competition and use theirs. Smart.
If it wasn't for the financial backing of Ford, we would have never seen the return of the rotary, none of the Mazdaspeed cars, nor would we have seen the leaps and bounds in design that Mazda has made in the last few years.
I hate to say it on a Honda board, but the Mazda 3 and 6 are both the best and offer the most in their class. Especially in terms of being real driver's cars. Both are winning and have won numerous awards. Think that came out of a Ford design facility?
BTW, my civic was more american than my RX-8 and my Mazdaspeed Protege. Both were manufactured 100% in Hiroshima.
If we used your logic, subaru would be a GM, Toyota has been in bed with Chevy for years, Nissan and Renault are in cahoots, and Mitsubishi is in conspiracy with Chrysler.
Check out these "Fords"
Mazda is and always will remain MAZDA. Ford has no hand in their design. It's marketing and economics people. Ford knows their designs are generally poor, so instead of putting more money into R&D, they simply buy shares of the competition and use theirs. Smart.
If it wasn't for the financial backing of Ford, we would have never seen the return of the rotary, none of the Mazdaspeed cars, nor would we have seen the leaps and bounds in design that Mazda has made in the last few years.
I hate to say it on a Honda board, but the Mazda 3 and 6 are both the best and offer the most in their class. Especially in terms of being real driver's cars. Both are winning and have won numerous awards. Think that came out of a Ford design facility?
BTW, my civic was more american than my RX-8 and my Mazdaspeed Protege. Both were manufactured 100% in Hiroshima.
If we used your logic, subaru would be a GM, Toyota has been in bed with Chevy for years, Nissan and Renault are in cahoots, and Mitsubishi is in conspiracy with Chrysler.
Check out these "Fords"
Last edited by nookiemonster; Sep 28, 2004 at 03:27 PM.
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Originally Posted by squishy
mazda reliability scares me.
People just didn't take care of these motors and they usually went at about 100,000 miles. A properly maintained 13B-REW can last beyond that, with a relatively simple change of the apex and side seals. Think of these like piston rings. A pain in the ***? Maybe, but all things considered, it's a low maintenance engine.
These problems have been solved with the new RENESIS rotary. They simply moved the exhaust ports to the side of the combustion chamber improving efficiency and power. Intake ports were also enlarged to increase flow. The result is a rotary that makes almost as much power as the 13B-REW did in stock form. And Mazda accomplished this without turbo. Apex and side seals are also of improved quality, and due to the RENESIS new design, take less punishment meaning they will not need to be changed for well beyond 100,000 miles. Talk about a low maintenance engine.
It's a shame that EPA standards required Mazda to make the fuel maps extremely rich to cool EGT's and increase cat life. There is a piggy back sold at RX8club.com that actually puts the ECU back to original spec, and can actually exceed that (up to 40 horses.)
Oh yeah, and the old 626 turbos were also a disaster. Mainly due to the transmission. Every car company has its quirks, and Mazda is in no way as reliable as Honda and Toyota, but they are by no means "unreliable."
Last edited by nookiemonster; Sep 28, 2004 at 03:42 PM.
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Rep Power: 318 I like your explinations but that jaguar post kinda ended your argument.. Jaguar's cars are based off of ford platforms as in the ford taurus and they use ford parts......
Mazda is heavily influenced by ford...
Mazda is heavily influenced by ford...
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Originally Posted by WhiteCastle
I like your explinations but that jaguar post kinda ended your argument.. Jaguar's cars are based off of ford platforms as in the ford taurus and they use ford parts......
Mazda is heavily influenced by ford...
Mazda is heavily influenced by ford...
Jag yes, does use Ford engineering, but Jags have never been spectacular to begin with. Chassis designs have always been flawed. If anything, it's BETTER they use Ford designs. That being said, it isn't one of the "ten commandments" that Jaguar MUST use Ford platforms. Jaguar is using the RX-8 chassis design for a sports coupe that will debut in the coming years. Ford made this possible, by linking the 2 companies together. Interesting if you ask me, I'll try to find it for you.
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.ph...ht=jaguar+RX-8
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Originally Posted by nookiemonster
Agreed. However, Ford engineering does not exist in Mazda vehicles, although Ford does take a managerial standpoint.
Jag yes, does use Ford engineering, but Jags have never been spectacular to begin with. Chassis designs have always been flawed. If anything, it's BETTER they use Ford designs. That being said, it isn't one of the "ten commandments" that Jaguar MUST use Ford platforms. Jaguar is using the RX-8 chassis design for a sports coupe that will debut in the coming years. Ford made this possible, by linking the 2 companies together. Interesting if you ask me, I'll try to find it for you.
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.ph...ht=jaguar+RX-8
Jag yes, does use Ford engineering, but Jags have never been spectacular to begin with. Chassis designs have always been flawed. If anything, it's BETTER they use Ford designs. That being said, it isn't one of the "ten commandments" that Jaguar MUST use Ford platforms. Jaguar is using the RX-8 chassis design for a sports coupe that will debut in the coming years. Ford made this possible, by linking the 2 companies together. Interesting if you ask me, I'll try to find it for you.
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.ph...ht=jaguar+RX-8
I think it has smoother line sthan an Rx8. Hey dont you own an rx-8? did you know it won sports car of the year on top gear.. for most innovatice desighn and chasis technology.
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Originally Posted by nookiemonster
Agreed. However, Ford engineering does not exist in Mazda vehicles, although Ford does take a managerial standpoint.
Ford Explorer
I was partially kidding. But yes Mazda did just slap their name on the explorer. The cheapest Jag is basically a $40,000 Tauras. Obviously not all Mazda's have Ford designs, but you are wrong by saying it doesn't exist at all.
It goes the other way as well. The Focuses have Mazda engines.
My question is this. Why would they use the 2.3L I4 and turbocharge that in a big car like the 6, when they could have turbocharged the V6 instead, and made more reliable power without pushing the engine too hard? Just doesn't make sense to me... 
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Rep Power: 328 Oh yeah sorry guys forgot about those ones. There are some instances where in order to fill a market hole, Mazda rebadged certain Fords as their own. Just gotta know what to buy and what not to. The B series and Ford ranger are the same now, but did anybody know that the B series once used rotaries?
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Rep Power: 328 Like that Jag? See more here:
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame...hp&carnum=1733
I don't really like it as much as the RX-8 but that's just me...today somebody asked me if I had an Aston Martin
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame...hp&carnum=1733
I don't really like it as much as the RX-8 but that's just me...today somebody asked me if I had an Aston Martin
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