zen_master

iTrader: (6)

as it is on the topic..

is engine brake really that bad for the engine?

damn, which one you pick...engine brake or totally brake pad? dang!

POLL:
(EDIT, thanx dude!)
1. engine brake + brake pad?
2. brake pad only?

Poll only for manual tranny cars....

DANG, WHAT HAPPENED TO MY POSTS....BREAK --> BRAKE!!!!

clownprince

iTrader: (5)

i'm guessing that break = brAKE.

engine braking isn't that bad, you have two choices, shorten your clutch life or your brakes. You have a brake pedal, just use it.

zen_master

iTrader: (6)

oh sh*t.

hm, i think im gonna shorten my pad......

it's damn harder and more expensive for the clutch, right?

I usually use engine brake when i wanna quick stop my car from high speed...
so i brake it........and if it's not enough, i'll drop gear to 2nd and pull out the clutch pedal slowly....while still braking...

hm, i heard from some people that engine brake's OK for ur car....i just learned that it might harm ur engine too!

oohooh

BRAKE BRAKE BRAKE BRAKE BRAKE BRAKE BRAKE.

zen_master

iTrader: (6)

dang, what usually u guys do?

totally brake pad? or with engine break?

hm, i like engine break, especially the sound....."wuuuum"

Entropy

How is engine breaking bad for your car? I mean it should be fine as long as your rev-matching right? I generally only do it when I'm going from 65 down to a stop on an off ramp and start about 500 feet back or so and start using the breakpad once I put it into 3rd

MrWong

iTrader: (4)

Do you guys usually rev match ? or do you disengage the clutch slowly while engaging the brakes ?

OsOBooSTeD

iTrader: (5)

DOWN SHIFTING AS ITS CALLED.. not engine braking. lol
is fine for the engine when used correctly. over reving just like when accelerating will cause more engine wear in the long run.
I usually just brake when coming to a stop unless i need to come to more of a quick stop or am slowing down from high speeds.. then down shifting comes into play.

alot of people will say that u harm the clutch and engine while down shifting.. this is because 75% of the people over rev their cars while doing it, or just totally release the clutch or even feather the clutch too much.
If u down shift the same way u Upshift then there is NO problems what so ever.

the engine is designed to do both. and its all a matter of opinion on which you choose.

anything u do to an engine can cause wear and tear. its just a matter of knowing how much abuse to give ur engine on a day to day basis.

zen_master

iTrader: (6)

hm..interesting..

i usually downshift from 5th or 4th to 2nd...

from 5th, i'll slow down with pad first...

then, as neccessary....i'll shift to 2nd gear and release the clutch slowy to gain the engine break as neccesary....while doin this, i always watch for the engine's sound and rpm....

releasing the clutch TO MUCH gonna jump the rpm....and ur gonna get bumped by the engine...which is not good....i think...

while releasing the clutch, I do also break with the pads in order to match the engine break...so it's not gonna "suffocate" the engine...

when it's perfect...the break pad and the engine break work in harmony...means that u can get faster stopping distance while decreasing the stress from the break pad caused by the shorter shopping distance from high speed.

i read some thread saying that while doin the engine break, u also put some more stress to the engine...which might leads to premature wear.....(damn!)

nme3

iTrader: (1)

phew, i engine brake all the time usually by rev matching. im worried when you say 75% of ppl over rev, so if i rev match, drop a gear, and the car continues on normally then thats okay right? cause when i was first rev matching while downshifting it would jerk sometimes which is bad im assuming.

zen_master

iTrader: (6)

I think THIS is the problem that those people got with their engine break, a.k.a downshifting.....

I learned how to do this from the first time i drive manual.....i always try hard to balance the amount of break from the pads and the downshifting....ALSO, to feel the engine's sound and RPM on ur tach...

however...sometimes i'm so clumsy that I release the clutch too much....resulting "great, heavy bump" by the car's engine...(NOT GOOD)

NoFriends

I heel-toe on all my downshifts if im braking. Once i get to 2500 or so in 2nd, ill just put it into neutral and brake the rest of the way.

zen_master

iTrader: (6)

i think there's a "short shift" in my brain which caused an error in my typing..

BREAK --> BREAK.

funny, i wrote break while in the next line, i wrote brake.

sorry guys!

OsOBooSTeD

iTrader: (5)

right thats exactly what im talking about ... when down shifting or engine BRAKING.. not BREAK.
you have to shift the same as if u were shifting up, but only down. the same way that u make a smooth transition from 1st, 2nd, 3rd, you have to do it the SAME SMOOTH way when going from 4,3,2,1st . thats why people say its bad to do it cause alot of folks dont know how to shift the same way backwards as forwards.

and nm3 a little jerk is fine.. a little jerk mind you!

when u get the hang of it , you guys can start rev matching MEANING... Taping the gas right before you release the clutch so the RPMS dont drop. this IS when u release the clutch the rpms are already in the right spot for the gear and theres no feeling of gear change WHAT SO EVER


AFTER u get that down it gives you the foundation to switch gears without the clutch .

Zzyzx

If you rev match while downshifting then down shifting doesent wear on your engine or clutch any more then an up shift.

A long time autocrosser/road racer onece told me "a good down shift should be heard not felt"

J-spec-SiR2

long as u dont downshift while too high of a speed for that gear .. bent rods arent cool.

zen_master

iTrader: (6)

very nice informations, thanx!!

yeah, indeed....heard but not felt...

that's what i do..

anyway, i thing there's a different between downshifting from 5-4-3-2.....

this is why i said engine BRAKing....cos' the thing that im talking about is actually when u downshift from 5 or 4 to 2nd gear in order to get faster stopping distance without hurting ur pad that much...

of coarse....i do this only in the case when i need it.....or else, i'll brake slowly...then downshift one-by-one smoothly...

Entropy

in that case you spelled it wrong and it should be Engine-Breaking

aki

You should lol at yourself, because downshifting to a lower gear is called engine braking. Don't laugh at other people when you're wrong.

When downshifting, not matching revs will wear the clutch, and will wear slightly if you're feathering the clutch.

To those who don't know what rev-matching is, it is when you hit the gas pedal to match the RPM that the engine would be at in the lower gear. So say you're in 4th gear at 45mph. Let's say at 2nd gear, 45 mph would be at 5,000 RPM (dunno exact numbers, I think that's about right). So before going to 2nd, hit the clutch, hit the gas pedal to 5,000 RPM, then just drop the clutch. Since the RPM's match, the clutch and syncro don't need to work to get the tranny and engine speed to match. Hence no wear on the clutch.

Since exact rev-matching takes time to learn to do well, and is frankly unnecessary for regular driving, best to go with just braking. New pads are a lot cheaper than a new clutch.

Downshifting, and heel-and-toe is fun to do though,

-Aki

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

I feel you can feel out your car, it tells when to down shift.

Sometimes I do a downshift at a higher rpm cause I need to slow down quicker.

In the end its a car if that little bit of abuse hurts the engine and tranny then its not a good car.

I see these guys with automaitcs rip there cars. I know 4 courier drivers with civics they got a lot mileage out of them.

OsOBooSTeD

iTrader: (5)

thanks for writing a response that just re-SAID everything that was stated before.

and lolooooloooololoolollol ILL LOL ALL I F UCK want- downshifting is downshifting. i dont want these kidss to get the idea the engine actually was braking like the actual brakes... when thats not the case. YOU DOWNSHIFT in a lower gear causing RESISTANCE at a higher RPM causing the engine to NATURALLY slow itself down.

dont start with me. ill finish it.

zen_master

iTrader: (6)

no, seriously...don't get me wrong..

it's engine-BRAKING...

maybe u got me wrong....i downshift from 5th or 4th gear to 2nd gear in order to get faster brake and shorter distance. however, it's ENGINE-BREAKING, IF you didn't brake ur car at all with ur brake-pad to slow it down before downshift to 2nd gear.

even though u braked ur car.....u still have to maintain the brake with brake pad while doin the "ENGINE BRAKE" that i'm talking about....so your car WONT be yanked by the engine...

u shouldn't also pull out the clutch pedal too fast....u goota feel the car, feel the maximum point where u can pull the clutch pedal....before ur car get yanked pretty badly.

zen_master

iTrader: (6)

NOW, this is what im talking about....
however, im looking for the greater resistance....that's as what i said, from 4th to 2nd gear.

skjinx

I do downshifting/engine braking occasionally. I feel that our cars have such low horsepower that the whole process is useless. I also do the rev matching to smooth out the downshift, but the engine braking isn't all that necessary in general.

I have tried engine braking on other cars that have higher horsepower like an Acura Integra GSR, or Nissan 240SX. Those cars can engine brake much better than we can.

Otherwise, throw into neutral and just hit the brakes! And stop speeding towards the red lights!

zen_master

iTrader: (6)

This is another way...

I'm thingking.....which one..

anyway, i use engine brake in the sense when i gotta stop on the red light.....
and my car is too fast......so, brake pad + engine brake in order to stop it smoothly.

NoFriends

Your car isnt fast.

zen_master

iTrader: (6)

dude, cmon, don't crop my sentece.

it's true though, my car isn't fast. LOL.

anyway, what i mean with fast: ur running 60mph.....about 20meter from stoplight..

hm, i can't use feet, not used with it.

again, it's only under certain circumstances....this scene actually should not happen in the first place.

Zzyzx

Most of my downshifting is used on track, in conjunction with the brake = Heel Toe shifting = Quicker lap times = Me happier. Try that some time (Using the brake, Clutch and bliping the gas all at the same time).

Really, As long as you rev match properly there is litte to no extra wear on the clutch or engine.

zen_master

iTrader: (6)

THANX!!!

thecheat

iTrader: (3)

match the revs and downshift to slow, keep your brake pads cool on the downhills. If you can do it right, heel-toe is the way to do it. Just practice it somewhere that you wont die if you screw it up. A 1st gear corner at the end of long, fast, downhill straight would be a bad place to try it for the first time. Dont worry about engine wear, just worry about putting the throttle blip in the right place.