Zzyzx

when I was learning I wore my Vans.. now when I race I have a pair of Puma driving shoes (Puma REpli Cat Mid II's, they make the Mid III's now) Cost me about $50 from the Puma Oultlet store at that outlet mall on Charleston.

Now... I can heel Toe with just about any thing.... though it is wierd feeling to do it with my Docks or my Dress/work shoes.




as long as the RPM's of the engine match the RPM's of the Transmission there is no extra wear (theres actually a bit less wear) but if you mess up then yes being at a high RPM would increse the chanses of braking some thing, BUt you'd be more likely to just wear on the clutch more then actually braking some thing in the transmission.

down_

*sigh* .......you dont engine brake a car............you engine brake a big rige.......engine braking is when a big rige use's its exhaust gas's to slow the the truck down........when you driving down the highway and see that sign that says.."Absolutly No Engine Brake" its because is freaken loud....extreamly loud........and there are residental buildings near by... You down shift a car.

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

I feel more comfortable heel-toeing in my regular sneekers I tried to drive barefoot and it was really weird so I put my shoes back on.

Zzyzx

ya Barefood driveing is not a really good Idea any way.... and having a sole (however thin) tends to reinforce the toes.... which helps with working the pedals any way

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

Are you able to upshift smooth all the time?

Zzyzx

well I'm not perfect..... I've been known to mess things up, it just happens some times.

pbfoot

iTrader: (2)

actually, in NJ its illegal to drive barefoot. ive done it to just move the car into the garage or whatever, but its really uncomfortable, so i dont know why anyone would actually prefer to drive barefoot. i dont even like to drive in sandals cause theres no arch support and the sole flexes so much under the pedal.

BTW, adidas gazelles are also pretty good driving shoes. at least they are for me. really comfy. but ive been looking at some pumas and some other adidas also, the ones that have a curved heel so you roll the heel a little better. mmmmm fun times.

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

I'm having a hard time doing it consistently. I have no idea how to shift smooth I'm kinda trying to feel the car and kinda use trial and error. There has gotta to be a fool proof plan. I've tried diff things, the worst thing I've is just let the clutch go and you feel the car catch the gear(or what ever it catches, whatever it is you feel it). Now I tried to clutch in and shift into gear fast and let go of the clutch controlling it with my foot it was smooth. BUT I wonder if shifting the stick hard into gear on upshifts is bar for the gearbox. Its not suppose to be so complicated! I'm better at hee-toeing even with double declutching on downshift on a turn than I am upshifting. On downshifintg I know what works, aren't upshifts suppose to be easier?

Zzyzx

sounds like you just need to work on you "Rythem".
what you should be aming for is to allow the engine RPM's to drop enough to match the Lower RPMs the transmission will be at in the next higher gear so that when you releace the clutch, there shoud be no "Learching"

Try this.

when you up shift:

Clutch in and shift to the next gear.
Clutch out (with out adding throttle)

If you shift too fast (not allowing enough time for the RPM's to naturally drop) then when you releace the clutch the RPM's will Drop Rapidly, the car will "jump" (It will Try to accelerate) and the clutch will slip a little bit.

If you shift too slow (allowing the RPM's to drop too low), then the Rpm's will Jump up, the clutch will slip, and the car will "learch" (the car will try to slow down, like engine braking)

Do that untill you find the speed in which your shifting does not cause either of these.

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

^^^^^^^^^At least what you say makes sense with the revs and all. Now I kinda understand why if we have a lighter flywheel we would have to shift faster because the revs would drop faster becasue of the momentum thing you explained to me.

I'm going to figure out what rpm the engine needs to be in for upshifts. For downshifting I was rev-matching by blipping, for upshifting I'll work on my timing. Thanks Zzyzx I'm gonna try it out,

Zzyzx what is happening your accelerate in a gear and then let go of the accelerator and lets say the revs come down from 3k to 1.8k and you feel a slip when you throttle again. Is that the clutch slipping?

pbfoot

iTrader: (2)

is this in your everyday driving that youre having trobule with the smoothness or in racing? i dont know about anyone else, but my style of shifting definitely changes with the style of driving. i dont race, but im just speaking from the difference in regular acceleration and hard acceleration when youre just bored or merging on the Hwy.

anyway, what you should work on, if this is regular driving conditions, is feathering the clutch a little. if youre just letting the clutch go, youre pretty much dropping the clutch each time you shift. it might not be as bad for the tranny/clutch as when youre doing it from a dead stop, but its still not good for it. feathering reduces the stress. im sure others will disagree with me on the technique, as it might wear the actual clutch more, since youre pretty much just slipping the clutch in a controlled manner, but slipping the clutch IMO is better than dropping it. theres no jarring.

if this is a problem in racing, then you definitely have to work on your rhythm, as zzyzx said. personally, my shifting is much smoother when im doing it quickly, you just have to feel what the car is doing. i dont conciously feather the clutch, i just feel when its the right time to shift and if youre doing everything quickly it all just falls into place.

the most important part is to have fun with it.

(edit) when you upshift, its really not the question when the right time to shift is if your goal is to be smooth, because you can really shift anywhere above 2500 if you really want to. the thing is knowing how far the revs will drop between the point when you let go of the accelerator and the point when you engage the next gear and are ready to let go of the clutch. if youre shifting at 4k, your revs will typically go down to like 2.5-3k, if youre shifting at 5k, they might just drop to 3 or 3.25k. all this is important because the higher the revs when you re-engage, the easier time the motor will have of turning the tranny in the higher gear. it wont get bogged down as much as if you shifted into a 1.5-2k rev range. so you gotta get to know your car, do everything smoothly and quickly, but doing it hard wont accomplish anything really. practice makes perfect.

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

I'm not a racer yet, just a wannabe.

ty.barrack

my first car was a 71 vw van, the tranny was tough, but it took skills going from a bicycle to that behemoth, I then spent 9 years in the Army, driving all kinds of Manuals, this Civic is something like my 10th car, and I have also had 6 racing motorcycles over the years, it just takes a little bit of practice, use the engine for braking on steep inclines, but don't over do it, you're liable to break something.

SOHC

i dont find downshifting to be very effective. it just makes a lot of noise for the most part. i just changed my front brake pads yesterday. they had 3 or 4 dif pads i could have purchased ranging from $30 to $55. i went with the $40 ones. ive got about 44k on my car, im guessing my breaks went out so soon because i rarely downshift. only now am i starting to do it- i usually feather the clutch to assist the actual braking that i do at the same time. downshifting significantly helps only when i downshift into second gear. I didnt know about rev matching, i just let the car figure it out- but ill start trying it!

pbfoot

iTrader: (2)

so...uhm....you just stay in 5th gear??

Arith

Brake Pad > Downshifting

Do you wanna pay for a new clutch or new brake pads? Simply as that.

Zzyzx

well..... like I said earlier... if you rev match correctly there is No extra wear on the clutch or transmission... If you slip the clutch then you are causing extra wear in the clutch.

Note: My clutch has lasted 85,000 + miles with 2 years of autocross (High RPM Upshifts and High RPM down shifts) and the thing still hasnt started to slip... why? Because I revmatch Every down shift.

SOHC

uhm no. i do what everyone does. i shift into neutral, and brake.

Sickboy

iTrader: (3)

Just brake and push the clutch in when you drop to 1k RPMs or so if you're cruising. Even rev-matching you're going to slightly wear the clutch or hydro system; I only bother if I'm doing spirited driving. If you HAVE to engine brake just to make a stop, stay the hell away from me . My old car has over 10 yrs on its clutch and runs like a champ BTW.

pbfoot

iTrader: (2)

its actually recommended to be in gear when you are slowing down/stopping in case something happens and you have to avoid an obstacle by accelerating. if youre in neutral you will not be able to react as quickly.

cdmx

iTrader: (7)

EH What the ****

new engine costs 300-600 bucks

cdmx

iTrader: (7)

Im someone and i Downshift then brake at last minute

cdmx

iTrader: (7)

Yes i do

OH OH, i would love to have my transmission rebuilt...oh yess I would love that

Seriously

bgoetz

iTrader: (1)

so what is the difference between double clutching and pushing in the clutch, droping it down a gear, bliping the rpms to rev match and then leting out the clutch??? What is the function of the added step of shifing into neutral 1st??

S2000man01

iTrader: (1)

even though rev matching may help wear on your clutch, your transmission, etc will take more wear and probably won't last as long in the long run. regardless of how careful you think you are.

every time you shift, you are repeating the action of clutch disengagement, shifting gears, rev matching, clutch engagement, etc, etc, etc. even if you rev match perfectly and put no extra wear on the clutch, you are still going to wear the parts out more quickly from repetitive stress.

why? because you're shifting in and out of gears far more often than someone who does not engine break.

xam

iTrader: (10)

i just try to rev match as close as possible.
cant wait till i get my products so i can read rpms...woot

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

He doesn't engine brake, like he mentions in his earlier posts he does not use the compression of the engine to slow the car down(he uses the brakes). He heel-toe's in racing situations on turns allowing him the put the car in the gear that puts the car in the optimal rpm to expose the maximum power the engine at a particular speed so he can exit the turn quickly. Keep in mind he is an amateur racer who has won a few events and competitions. He is pushing his car to the limits. He is heel-toeing cause he has to.

I'm sure his superior downshifting and upshifting techinques translates to his street driving where when he comes to stop he actually clutch's in blips to 2k then slips the car into first. On upshifts he probabaly waits for the rev to drop to the rev it would be at the current speed your going for that gear(anyhow you can feel it the car will just slip into gear) Anyhow all race car drivers take care of there cars since when you put the car under tremendous stress it is nessasary to be be smooth unless you don't want to finish the race(that comment does not apply to drag racing).

Danka02

iTrader: (1)

Man i remember that time you got off the freeway and downshifted you hella reved the crap out of your engine for a good few sec's i thought you were going to blow your engine, you must have hit 6k when you did that, but yeah foo get a tach you really need one haha

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

XAM if you don't have a tach try this.

upshifting.

Lets say your gonna shift from 1st to second. Clutch in move to neutral and push the stick against 2nd but don't put it in right away. Wait for it to slip in(the resistance from the gearbox will go away when the engine will be at the right RPM). You won't need the tach for that. Its all about feeling.

Dowshifting

lets say your in forth and you want come to third. clutch in, move the stick to neutral then push against 3rd, blip hard(rev a lil high), wait for the resistance from the gearbox to stop and slip into 3rd gear.

bgoetz

iTrader: (1)

fVcknA if all of this engine braking, down shifting hard **** is true I should just buy a new engine and tranny now .