nindoo

iTrader: (1)

I found this article informational

http://www.tcsracing.org/doubledeclutching.htm

nookiemonster

^^^ The heel to toe method #2 is good in our cars, and also in my protege. Keep in mind though, that most late model cars don't require "double clutching/ de clutching" mainly because newer models have more advanced synchros and you shouldn't have a problem with them wearing.

mangoblaster

you kinda have to look at it this way too! Automatic cars downshift when you are breaking and i'm pretty sure that doesn't harm your engine. If you are really worried, pump the gas everytime u downshift. If you know your car well enough u should be able to match the engine speed when u downshift.

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

nookiemonster why I double de-clutch I feel the the stick shift does not resist the shift, I was able to shift to nrtral going 35 km per hours, rev high and switch to first.

nookiemonster

True it does feel smoother, but in the end it's pretty redundant and unnecessary with late model cars synchros.

Halfloaf

I would say that heavy engine braking is going to be more of an issue with engine mounts in the long term.
Just like accellerating hard a lot, our engine mounts turn to mush pretty quickly.
I am in the process of making brackets to fit an engine damper which will help engine braking/breaking as well as wheel hop when accellerating.
If that doesnt keep the engine under control I'm gonna silicon the engine mounts.

nookiemonster

In all honesty, if you downshift correctly, by rev matching...there should be absolute no wear on any parts. It's like Zzyzx said...it should be "heard not felt."

rickinthescv

Well neither is really bad. But using the brakes only shortens thier life. Using the engine, trannsmission, and clutch to slow the car down shortens their life. So use a 2000 part or a 50 dollar part.

In reality, I think judicious use of downshifting probably is not too bad, just be careful not to overrev the engine. The engine does have a rev limiter, but it will do nothing to prevent you from downshifting too much and over reving the motor, thus blowing it up.

samscivic

pft i down shift...engine break all the time and she still runs like gold!

nookiemonster

I'd be very entertained to see someone blow up their engine from downshifting and engine braking. It's the proper way to drive a car. I'm pretty sure I'd save my engine life if I put the damn thing in neutral and rolled down hills every time I came up to one, but does it make any sense?

Drive properly, and the car will last. 'Nuff said.

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

When down shifting is it better to double declutch or just put the clutch in rev match and shift down? Nookie Monster you mentioned that in newer cars we don't need to worry about double declutching.


What do you guys think of shuffle steering?

Zzyzx

Modern Syncros are much more cabible then the old designes making Double Decluthing un-nessisary. you can still do it and you will make your transmission last a little bit longer, but its really not nessisary.

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

Zzyzx how are you suppose to take a turn? I know anyone can turn a car, but what is the proper way to take a turn?

Zzyzx

Depends greatly on the turn.... as in the faster the turn the later the apex. But to keep things simple, Late Apex EVERY THING. or are you talking about When do you shift durring a turn? or what?

nookiemonster

Hmmm I've always downshifted as I enter the corner, but I haven't really had pro training on it either...but I do notice that when I heel to toe downshift entering the corner, I keep the car in the powerband for a better exit..

Zzyzx

^ officially you shoud Down shift just about at the apex of the corner, where you are coming off the brakes and ready for acceleration. This is assuming of course that you are trailbraking. If not trailbraking, I ushually down shift just about when I'm finishing with my braking and entering the corner.


Also, you must revmatch well enough to not upset the car right before or Durrnig the turn...

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

how should you take the turn, what position should your car be in? when do you start to straighten the wheels and stuff? Where on the track does my car need to me to be at the beginning of the turn and in the turn?

Zzyzx

Start wide, Hit the apex (as late as possible) and the accleerate back out and go wide... just don't try to accleerate to hard or you'll cause understeer.


If you want to learn Corner theroy one book I highly recomend is Secrets of Solo Racing.

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Zzyzx.

From the Apex on you should be straighting your wheels? is that why you end up going wide after the Apex?

Zzyzx

In a perfect world in a perfect turn the apex should be the place where the wheels are turned the most, after that you start straighting out the wheel and applying power (Dont floor it, ease in on the gas as you straighten the wheel).

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

Zzyzx, have you heard of shuffle steering? Is it used in Autocross?

Zzyzx

Theres about 50 different ways to use the wheel... Some Say shouffle steering is the best. I don't like it, but some times I do it any way. it makes the turn Jerky and thats not what you want in autocross (Smoothness is the key) also i've been scolded by one of our "pro" drivers about using it... that book I reccomended covers two ways of using the steering wheel, try both and see which one feels the best and works the best for you.

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

I read this thread when I was new to this forum, and posted some quick comments. Know that I've read the posts and went out and drove, and I'm caught in the same dilema as Zen Master was.

I understand that if I want to start going faster I can rev match and downshift to get more power. So basically all that has changed if the engine sound, and you don't feel the downshift.

Know when I want to slow down my car is it bad to rev match drop to a lower gear, since this allows me to slow the car down easier, when I'm breaking. Should I be avoiding this and just apply the brakes and leave it in the higher gear. I'm asking from a wear and tear point of view on the clutch.

When switching from first gear to second gear, if I try and switch quick and just let the clutch pop up, I feel the gear change like something has just caught hard. switching from 2 to 3 quickly doesn't do that, neither do the other higher gears. Is it better to switch from 1 to 2 and release the clutch pedal slower. Does switching the gears fast and letting the clutch pedal pop up cause more wear and tear on the clutch than letting the pedal up smoothly.

Also sometimes If I allow the rev's drop too quickly just after I was acelerating I feel a slip.

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

bump

ragingSPAM

iTrader: (8)

engine breaking is not bad for your car...i do it all the time to slow me down if im going fast...only bad part is that it wastes more gas than not doing it

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

bump

cdmx

iTrader: (7)

I would like to see a vid of you heel-toe shiftin


Anyway...at every stop or slowing down i always downshift

cdmx

iTrader: (7)

Did you read the first sentence?

and i dont know why they call it double De-clutching

ctx66

skills

http://gscdownloads.com/GT3cupatVIR.wmv

exclusive_vtec

downshift is ok when u downshift at the right rpms like 3000-0 in between there i think its ok.. anything higher i think it harms the timing belt as well as the tranny.. i use both but usualy at the proper rpm