2005 Scion Tc Unveiled
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Originally posted by O1Coupe
Wow, it's AMAZING HOW STUPID YOU ARE.
Toyota Camry's 2.4L
Horsepower: 160 @ 5600RPM
Torque: 163ft/lb @ 4000RPM
Scion xC's 2.4L
Horsepower: 159 @ 6000RPM
Torque: 162ft/lb @ 4200RPM
As you can SEE, it's not really a new engine... they pulled the engine from the base model CAMRY. This is the same tactic used by Sentra SE-R (pulled from base model Altima), and Protege (2.0L was from the old base model 626, new 2.3L is from base Mazda6)...
Engine sharing is nothing new for Honda either, as they employee their own "2.4L 160HP joke" engine into CRVs and Elements.
Honda Accord's 2.4L
Horsepower: 160 @ 5500RPM
Torque: 161@4500RPM
As you can SEE, Honda's output is not much different, except for torque that requires more revs.
Car makers put these engines in not for all out performance, but for a perfect comprimise of performance & economy. It's not that Honda & Toyota can only pump 160HP from a 2.4L... it's because those engines get AMAZING gas mileage, even in mid-size sedan shells. Stuff that into a smaller body, and you have more performance & even better gas mileage.
Oh, and did you even glance at the standard options list?? A/C, PW, PL, Panorama Moonroof, Outside Temp Guage, Bucket Seats w/Adjustable Thigh Support, Cruise, 17" wheels (an RSX-S wont get you 17s), Pioneer MP3/XM stereo, KNEE Airbags, 4-wheel DISC brakes, 1st Aid Kit...... dude, this car is FULLY LOADED. And if Scion's history so far tells you anything, the sticker won't be too high.
You also diss rest of the Scion's lineup... well let's have a look at the STUPID xA. At $12,965 what does it compete with? Civics? No. Golfs? No. It competes with Hyundai Accent GLs, which starts at $11,439. For $1500 more, you get a bigger car, more powerful, better handling, better brakes, with Toyota build quality. Add-in much superior resale value, and.... suddenly you have a car with extremely high values. Like MotorTrend said: "The value cannot be measured, it's off the charts!"
Don't hate Toyota, hate your lack of understanding.
Wow, it's AMAZING HOW STUPID YOU ARE.
Toyota Camry's 2.4L
Horsepower: 160 @ 5600RPM
Torque: 163ft/lb @ 4000RPM
Scion xC's 2.4L
Horsepower: 159 @ 6000RPM
Torque: 162ft/lb @ 4200RPM
As you can SEE, it's not really a new engine... they pulled the engine from the base model CAMRY. This is the same tactic used by Sentra SE-R (pulled from base model Altima), and Protege (2.0L was from the old base model 626, new 2.3L is from base Mazda6)...
Engine sharing is nothing new for Honda either, as they employee their own "2.4L 160HP joke" engine into CRVs and Elements.
Honda Accord's 2.4L
Horsepower: 160 @ 5500RPM
Torque: 161@4500RPM
As you can SEE, Honda's output is not much different, except for torque that requires more revs.
Car makers put these engines in not for all out performance, but for a perfect comprimise of performance & economy. It's not that Honda & Toyota can only pump 160HP from a 2.4L... it's because those engines get AMAZING gas mileage, even in mid-size sedan shells. Stuff that into a smaller body, and you have more performance & even better gas mileage.
Oh, and did you even glance at the standard options list?? A/C, PW, PL, Panorama Moonroof, Outside Temp Guage, Bucket Seats w/Adjustable Thigh Support, Cruise, 17" wheels (an RSX-S wont get you 17s), Pioneer MP3/XM stereo, KNEE Airbags, 4-wheel DISC brakes, 1st Aid Kit...... dude, this car is FULLY LOADED. And if Scion's history so far tells you anything, the sticker won't be too high.
You also diss rest of the Scion's lineup... well let's have a look at the STUPID xA. At $12,965 what does it compete with? Civics? No. Golfs? No. It competes with Hyundai Accent GLs, which starts at $11,439. For $1500 more, you get a bigger car, more powerful, better handling, better brakes, with Toyota build quality. Add-in much superior resale value, and.... suddenly you have a car with extremely high values. Like MotorTrend said: "The value cannot be measured, it's off the charts!"
Don't hate Toyota, hate your lack of understanding.
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Rep Power: 0 DETROIT (AP) — Toyota Motor Sales USA marked its latest step to attract younger buyers, unveiling the third offering Monday from its Scion lineup: the tC sports coupe.
The 2.4-liter, four-cylinder tC offers 160 horsepower in its standard configuration, with the option for a dealer-installed supercharger package to give it 200 horsepower. Final pricing hasn't been determined, but Toyota says it will cost well under $20,000.
Toyota rolled out the first two vehicles of the Scion lineup — the xA sedan and the xB subcompact — last year in California. Starting Feb. 3, those vehicles will be available on the East Coast, the Southeast and the Gulf states. The tC goes on sale in June, the same time the other two Scions will be available nationwide.
Although the xA and xB now only are being sold in California, Jim Farley, vice president of Scion, said Monday they already have been registered in 40 states. He said 75 percent of Scion buyers are new to Toyota and half of those who bought one of the nearly 10,900 sold in 2003 were under the age of 35.
Seem like they already have a buyer. Me.
if they sell for around 18k, then its only 1k more from the civic ex, which i feel is a HUGE bargain. Just for 1k more dollars, you get so much more than the civic. What do you guys think?
The 2.4-liter, four-cylinder tC offers 160 horsepower in its standard configuration, with the option for a dealer-installed supercharger package to give it 200 horsepower. Final pricing hasn't been determined, but Toyota says it will cost well under $20,000.
Toyota rolled out the first two vehicles of the Scion lineup — the xA sedan and the xB subcompact — last year in California. Starting Feb. 3, those vehicles will be available on the East Coast, the Southeast and the Gulf states. The tC goes on sale in June, the same time the other two Scions will be available nationwide.
Although the xA and xB now only are being sold in California, Jim Farley, vice president of Scion, said Monday they already have been registered in 40 states. He said 75 percent of Scion buyers are new to Toyota and half of those who bought one of the nearly 10,900 sold in 2003 were under the age of 35.
Seem like they already have a buyer. Me.
if they sell for around 18k, then its only 1k more from the civic ex, which i feel is a HUGE bargain. Just for 1k more dollars, you get so much more than the civic. What do you guys think?
Last edited by oohooh; Jan 5, 2004 at 07:13 PM.
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I honestly like it. It has the same edginess as the Tiburon and is far cheaper than the RSX. It has a decent engine and nice looks. It's also available in auto, for lazy dudes like me.
I had a chance a to look at the other two Scions at the DC autoshow and the quality is great but they are too small for me. I hopped in and they were comfortable and had very nice fit and finish but they were very, very compact in size (they compete in a market that the Civic grew out of). They're great for first time buyers but I wouldn't reccomend one if you currently drive a Civic.
It seems like the Tc is going to be the best value in it's class when it comes out, esp. if it has the features on the other Scions.
I had a chance a to look at the other two Scions at the DC autoshow and the quality is great but they are too small for me. I hopped in and they were comfortable and had very nice fit and finish but they were very, very compact in size (they compete in a market that the Civic grew out of). They're great for first time buyers but I wouldn't reccomend one if you currently drive a Civic.
It seems like the Tc is going to be the best value in it's class when it comes out, esp. if it has the features on the other Scions.
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Rep Power: 0 honda won't do ****. This Tc is made to compete with the base trimmed RSX, and is a good competition while they're at it. I feel that this vehicle is irrelevent to the civic community and honda won't do anything to our civics, esp when the civic is still selling like there is no tomorrow.
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Rep Power: 0 Actually, I think it WILL affect Civic sales.... but only for coupes. I always felt that Toyota needed a good sedan-like coupes, because they tend to do fairly well for Chevorlet (Cavalier coupes) and Honda (our coupes).....
The last time they had one like it was Corolla GT-S, back in the late 80's.
This one, if priced right, will get in the way of Civic EX Coupes.... especially with the extremely value it will represent. If it is within $2000 of a Civic, I can see a lot of people switching for the Scion tC.
$2000 can easily be spent on 17" rims & tires, an 160W MP3 Pioneer Stereo, and other goodies, which the Scion tC already has and standard equipment. And I think gimmics like the dual-panoramic moonroofs will get people's attention.
Make no mistake, nearly 15 years ago, they pulled the same feat with Lexus. They offered it extremely value, and stole sales from BMW & Mercedes while they were being laughed at (and now the #1 selling Luxuary Cars in USA for 2 years in a role).
I think Scion has a huge target against Honda, first with their xB, which is often considered as the "cheap Element" (and it is, as it undercuts the price by a HUGE margin), and now, they are looking to tackle Civic Coupe EX / Base RSX... okay, I admit it's more for RSX, since it's tC is also a hatchback... but then again, a lot of Civic EX buyers also have considered RSX as well.
The last time they had one like it was Corolla GT-S, back in the late 80's.
This one, if priced right, will get in the way of Civic EX Coupes.... especially with the extremely value it will represent. If it is within $2000 of a Civic, I can see a lot of people switching for the Scion tC.
$2000 can easily be spent on 17" rims & tires, an 160W MP3 Pioneer Stereo, and other goodies, which the Scion tC already has and standard equipment. And I think gimmics like the dual-panoramic moonroofs will get people's attention.
Make no mistake, nearly 15 years ago, they pulled the same feat with Lexus. They offered it extremely value, and stole sales from BMW & Mercedes while they were being laughed at (and now the #1 selling Luxuary Cars in USA for 2 years in a role).
I think Scion has a huge target against Honda, first with their xB, which is often considered as the "cheap Element" (and it is, as it undercuts the price by a HUGE margin), and now, they are looking to tackle Civic Coupe EX / Base RSX... okay, I admit it's more for RSX, since it's tC is also a hatchback... but then again, a lot of Civic EX buyers also have considered RSX as well.
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From: OXNARD, CA. SoCal. "805", North of L.A.
Rep Power: 359 for the up to date shiznit for the scion look at this site
http://www.scionlife.com/tc/
and for the tc look here they show it superchargered
http://www.scionlife.com/tc/
I might be trading in my car for this ride
after I check it out this weekend at the L.A. Auto show.
http://www.scionlife.com/tc/
and for the tc look here they show it superchargered
http://www.scionlife.com/tc/
I might be trading in my car for this ride
after I check it out this weekend at the L.A. Auto show.
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From: Jersey Shore
Rep Power: 311 Originally posted by O1Coupe
Actually, I think it WILL affect Civic sales.... but only for coupes. I always felt that Toyota needed a good sedan-like coupes, because they tend to do fairly well for Chevorlet (Cavalier coupes) and Honda (our coupes).....
The last time they had one like it was Corolla GT-S, back in the late 80's.
This one, if priced right, will get in the way of Civic EX Coupes.... especially with the extremely value it will represent. If it is within $2000 of a Civic, I can see a lot of people switching for the Scion tC.
Actually, I think it WILL affect Civic sales.... but only for coupes. I always felt that Toyota needed a good sedan-like coupes, because they tend to do fairly well for Chevorlet (Cavalier coupes) and Honda (our coupes).....
The last time they had one like it was Corolla GT-S, back in the late 80's.
This one, if priced right, will get in the way of Civic EX Coupes.... especially with the extremely value it will represent. If it is within $2000 of a Civic, I can see a lot of people switching for the Scion tC.
I need TP for my bunghole
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From: OXNARD, CA. SoCal. "805", North of L.A.
Rep Power: 359 true but it is a toyota based product which also has a great reputation as well.
Yes it is new, but aren't all things at one point.
I might get ride of the slowvic for that.
I've had many a technical problem with the vic and I'm seriuosly annoyed.
Yes it is new, but aren't all things at one point.
I might get ride of the slowvic for that.
I've had many a technical problem with the vic and I'm seriuosly annoyed.
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Rep Power: 0 very nice car!!!! hope i can buy one and send it here to canada.. that's a sweet ride.. considering the quality on toyota, that car's gonna last me longer than expected.. with proper maintenance of course..
wonder if they will build a sedan TC... hmmm.. that too would be nice.
wonder if they will build a sedan TC... hmmm.. that too would be nice.
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From: Oakland, CA
Rep Power: 0 Toyota's smart. They know that they have an "old man" image for their cars so they introduce a "young man" line of cars - Scion.
I don't like the design (looks pudgy and a bit girly), but they're doing what Civic should've done from the very beginning - a compact coupe with a 160 hp engine (i bet they're re-assessing that Si coupe now). 17" rims standard, unlike the horrid 15" from the 02 Si, little things that please young people like turn signals on rearview mirrors. Plus, direct factory support for a aftermarket modifications.
The car will be more apealing than the base RSX, especially since it's 19k fully loaded. Better rims, a moonroof, you get more bang for the buck.
Plus, as much as I despise Toyota and like Hondas, Toyotas are a tad more reliable than Honda, so they have a lot going for the car.
My only concern is what plagues Toyota cars - a soft mushy suspension that feels like you're floating around.
-Aki
I don't like the design (looks pudgy and a bit girly), but they're doing what Civic should've done from the very beginning - a compact coupe with a 160 hp engine (i bet they're re-assessing that Si coupe now). 17" rims standard, unlike the horrid 15" from the 02 Si, little things that please young people like turn signals on rearview mirrors. Plus, direct factory support for a aftermarket modifications.
The car will be more apealing than the base RSX, especially since it's 19k fully loaded. Better rims, a moonroof, you get more bang for the buck.
Plus, as much as I despise Toyota and like Hondas, Toyotas are a tad more reliable than Honda, so they have a lot going for the car.
My only concern is what plagues Toyota cars - a soft mushy suspension that feels like you're floating around.
-Aki
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Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by Jollysid
Everybody just ignores the fact that the civic has years of heritage behind it. To assume that people would ignore that and start buying some new car they've never heard of and has no reliability ratings is ludicrous. We here forget that 90% of civic owners buy it because it's a reliable economy car with a stellar reputation, the scion will take years to approach that.
Everybody just ignores the fact that the civic has years of heritage behind it. To assume that people would ignore that and start buying some new car they've never heard of and has no reliability ratings is ludicrous. We here forget that 90% of civic owners buy it because it's a reliable economy car with a stellar reputation, the scion will take years to approach that.
What are you on crack?? Toyota has ALWAYS had better reliability rating than Hondas.... year after year. Camry over Accords, Corollas over Civics. This is a fact, not my opinion.
Not only that, if anything is "new" here, it is the Civic. If you knew anything about the 7th Gens, it is the most "changed" Civic since the 5th Gens.... something like 1700 new parts. Which is pricsely why Civic made it to the recently Top 25 Lemon List made by JD Power Assosciates, and pricsely why there are so many complaints on this board itself in regards to transmissions, fit & finish and suspension components.
Your so-called "new cars" like Echo (which is Yaris in Japan/Europe, and has been so for quite a while now) still is considered rock solid reliable.
Stellar reputation for 7th Gens.. hahaha.. I'll tell you what. I bought my car, thinking it would be reliable too...... plus the awesome value AT THE TIME (April of 2001). Unfortuately, my car has broken down many times like others in here... including transmission, battery, cat converter, etc... but I won't get into that, because I am just one example of many. However, you should do some research on WHY Toyota is continueously rated #1 in the world for highest customer satisfaction report over Honda and any other company... it's because they make RELIABLE CARS.
You can diss the Scion on their Styling, or whatever else you want... but please... don't diss their reliability. You will find out you are wrong.
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Rep Power: 346 That's why they're starting new. Scion itself means "offspring" or "descendant". That's exactly what they're aiming for, kids of Camry/Lexus buyers. Mushy suspension will probably left for Toyota and Lexus. It's going to attract people that want toyota/lexus reliability but that also want their sportier side/ amazing value.
The quality of the two display cars (Xa & Xb) at the DC autoshow was great. The only problem is that they were really small. The Tc would be a larger car compared to those but it will still have the same features.
If I ever need a coupe I'd buy a Tc.
The quality of the two display cars (Xa & Xb) at the DC autoshow was great. The only problem is that they were really small. The Tc would be a larger car compared to those but it will still have the same features.
If I ever need a coupe I'd buy a Tc.
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Rep Power: 288 Originally posted by O1Coupe
What are you on crack?? Toyota has ALWAYS had better reliability rating than Hondas.... year after year. Camry over Accords, Corollas over Civics. This is a fact, not my opinion.
Not only that, if anything is "new" here, it is the Civic. If you knew anything about the 7th Gens, it is the most "changed" Civic since the 5th Gens.... something like 1700 new parts. Which is pricsely why Civic made it to the recently Top 25 Lemon List made by JD Power Assosciates, and pricsely why there are so many complaints on this board itself in regards to transmissions, fit & finish and suspension components.
Your so-called "new cars" like Echo (which is Yaris in Japan/Europe, and has been so for quite a while now) still is considered rock solid reliable.
Stellar reputation for 7th Gens.. hahaha.. I'll tell you what. I bought my car, thinking it would be reliable too...... plus the awesome value AT THE TIME (April of 2001). Unfortuately, my car has broken down many times like others in here... including transmission, battery, cat converter, etc... but I won't get into that, because I am just one example of many. However, you should do some research on WHY Toyota is continueously rated #1 in the world for highest customer satisfaction report over Honda and any other company... it's because they make RELIABLE CARS.
You can diss the Scion on their Styling, or whatever else you want... but please... don't diss their reliability. You will find out you are wrong.
What are you on crack?? Toyota has ALWAYS had better reliability rating than Hondas.... year after year. Camry over Accords, Corollas over Civics. This is a fact, not my opinion.
Not only that, if anything is "new" here, it is the Civic. If you knew anything about the 7th Gens, it is the most "changed" Civic since the 5th Gens.... something like 1700 new parts. Which is pricsely why Civic made it to the recently Top 25 Lemon List made by JD Power Assosciates, and pricsely why there are so many complaints on this board itself in regards to transmissions, fit & finish and suspension components.
Your so-called "new cars" like Echo (which is Yaris in Japan/Europe, and has been so for quite a while now) still is considered rock solid reliable.
Stellar reputation for 7th Gens.. hahaha.. I'll tell you what. I bought my car, thinking it would be reliable too...... plus the awesome value AT THE TIME (April of 2001). Unfortuately, my car has broken down many times like others in here... including transmission, battery, cat converter, etc... but I won't get into that, because I am just one example of many. However, you should do some research on WHY Toyota is continueously rated #1 in the world for highest customer satisfaction report over Honda and any other company... it's because they make RELIABLE CARS.
You can diss the Scion on their Styling, or whatever else you want... but please... don't diss their reliability. You will find out you are wrong.
http://www.lemonlaw.com/lemonlist.html
you really need to look at lemon stats. only 5.8k honda civic lemons but look at toyota. rav4, highlander and prius were also on the list and the amount of those cars sold are a lot less. 2002 alone honda sold 330k+ honda civics.
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From: Jersey Shore
Rep Power: 311 Originally posted by O1Coupe
Stellar reputation for 7th Gens.. hahaha.. I'll tell you what. I bought my car, thinking it would be reliable too...... plus the awesome value AT THE TIME (April of 2001). Unfortuately, my car has broken down many times like others in here... including transmission, battery, cat converter, etc... but I won't get into that, because I am just one example of many. However, you should do some research on WHY Toyota is continueously rated #1 in the world for highest customer satisfaction report over Honda and any other company... it's because they make RELIABLE CARS.
Stellar reputation for 7th Gens.. hahaha.. I'll tell you what. I bought my car, thinking it would be reliable too...... plus the awesome value AT THE TIME (April of 2001). Unfortuately, my car has broken down many times like others in here... including transmission, battery, cat converter, etc... but I won't get into that, because I am just one example of many. However, you should do some research on WHY Toyota is continueously rated #1 in the world for highest customer satisfaction report over Honda and any other company... it's because they make RELIABLE CARS.
The fact is that the reliability ratings are very close if not identical. Toyota however does have trouble with their trucks as far as reliabilty. I did the research before I bought my 7th gen and it was rated the top in it's class in every category but the stereo system. I will say however, that while they chose the civic as #1 every reviewer felt that you couldn't go wrong with a Corolla either.
And no, I'm not "on crack"
I dont know it kinda looks a little to bubbly to me, or maybe its to round, i like a lil edge in the body style, it reminds me to much of a hyundai like an elantra or something, the power is alright i dont know i would rather get an si then this car, or even a matrix....just my opinion
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Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by mrchowmein
i didnt find the jd power thing but i found this , its from the fed gov complaints
http://www.lemonlaw.com/lemonlist.html
you really need to look at lemon stats. only 5.8k honda civic lemons but look at toyota. rav4, highlander and prius were also on the list and the amount of those cars sold are a lot less. 2002 alone honda sold 330k+ honda civics.
i didnt find the jd power thing but i found this , its from the fed gov complaints
http://www.lemonlaw.com/lemonlist.html
you really need to look at lemon stats. only 5.8k honda civic lemons but look at toyota. rav4, highlander and prius were also on the list and the amount of those cars sold are a lot less. 2002 alone honda sold 330k+ honda civics.
DUDE IT'S A FU*KING RATIO........ the complaint index is based on a ratio of the number of complaints for each vehicle to the sales of that vehicle.If it was a total number, cars like the Prius wouldn't even be on there.. they sold very little. You can argue about the fact that Toyota has 3 on there, while Honda only has 1.. but honda sellss only what, 6 cars in N America?
Civic
Accord
Oddeysee
CRV
Pilot
S2000
Compared to Toyota's...
Echo
Corolla
Matrix
Celica
Prius
Camry
Solara
Avalon
Sienna
RAV4
Highlander
4Runner
Land Cruiser
Prerunner
Tacoma
Tundera
3 brands out of 16 .vs. 1 out of 6... ratio is now somehow closer. However, read on.
You also need to compare apples to apples.. or in this case, lemons to lemons. Prius is a HYBRID CAR... with complex powertrain systems, SVTs, even LCD monitors exist in the car. Highlander/Rav4 are both 4wheel driver cars... again, causes more problems.
Civics on the other hand is BASIC FRONT WHEEL DRIVE CAR. There is no complex transmission, no complex hybrid electrical engine, or anything like that....... yet it still managed to fall into the lemon depot. Do you see any "regular" Toyotas on there? Camry? Echo? Corolla? Celica? Nope... tC falls in the "regular" area, build with tried & tested & true parts from other Toyota cars.
Our Civics are plauged with problems....... in fact, it's the most unreliable car in Honda's stable period.
Last edited by O1Coupe; Jan 8, 2004 at 05:26 AM.
