in the 14's
Thread Starter
Registered!!
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
From: maryland
Rep Power: 0 
in the 14's
hey also, do u guys think that u could get an all motor d17 in the 14's with just bolt-ons: an intake, underdrive pulleys, full header back exhaust, motor mounts and a built head: ex-lx head swap, ported polished, valves, springs, stage 2 na cam, with a vafc?
Nope. It's hard enough with nitrous. You'd probably have to raise the compression to get that kind of time. Wrong forum by the way, this has nothing to do with forced induction or swaps.
DONT PANIC
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,201
Likes: 1
From: California, Palmdale
Rep Power: 285 
im not going to say "its impossible", but i will say that its not all that probable.
with the amount of money you will spend trying to go 14's NA, you could go mid 13's turbod.
If i were to build an NA motor, it would be...
mild port job
crower stage 3 cam
crower springs & retainers
ARP head studs
ultra-thin head gasket (custom made by SCE)
arias 12.5:1 pistons
Crower stroker crank
crower titanium rods
edelbrock performer-x intake manifold
72mm RPM service throttle body
AEM 30-1030 EMS
Top Gun race header (has to be custom made to order)
custom mandrel bent 2.25" exhaust
4 external MSD coils
some ultralight 15" race rims
kumho ecsta V711 tires
some sort of LSD
then im sure you could go 14's NA reliably and consistently
But for that much money, i could go bottom 12's with a turbo.
with the amount of money you will spend trying to go 14's NA, you could go mid 13's turbod.
If i were to build an NA motor, it would be...
mild port job
crower stage 3 cam
crower springs & retainers
ARP head studs
ultra-thin head gasket (custom made by SCE)
arias 12.5:1 pistons
Crower stroker crank
crower titanium rods
edelbrock performer-x intake manifold
72mm RPM service throttle body
AEM 30-1030 EMS
Top Gun race header (has to be custom made to order)
custom mandrel bent 2.25" exhaust
4 external MSD coils
some ultralight 15" race rims
kumho ecsta V711 tires
some sort of LSD
then im sure you could go 14's NA reliably and consistently
But for that much money, i could go bottom 12's with a turbo.
Thread Starter
Registered!!
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
From: maryland
Rep Power: 0 ya but if i paid sume one to do work for me i would shoot my self i am not like most people on this board i do all my owen work. all i really need to learn how to do is tune it so if i just get off my a$$ and read then i will be ok o p.s. can a 1st gen mitsu turbo bolt up to a t25 flange mani
DONT PANIC
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,201
Likes: 1
From: California, Palmdale
Rep Power: 285 i build every part of my car myself.
i built (from scratch) every turbo system that has ever been on my car (total of 6 now). And i have done all the different parts installs myself (clutches, engine managements, electronics, suspension, etc). I would be assembling my block myself, but i had surgery on my shoulder last week, and i am on a strict deadline to have the car together for IDRC nationals on April 8th. So i am having a pro assemble the block for me while i am layed out (and useless).
So take if form me when i tell you that you cannot simply read a book and know how to tune a car. You really need to sit and watch a real tuner work. Watch him tune a bunch of cars and ask him questions and tips along the way. Tuning is all about the knowledge AND the experience. You could know everything there is to know about fuel systems, and still blow a motor up due to insuffiecient experience.
An experienced tuner knows the cars and the management systems inside and out. He knows all the quirks of the systems, and knows their downfalls. He knows how to make the car run like it was turbod from the factory.
Anyone can hook up an emanage, add fuel here and there, and make a car drive under boost. But it takes an experienced tuner to make the car truely perform properly. Even though it may look easy, tuning is an art.
I would not recommend you tune your own car simply because you think you can read up on it and be able to do it properly. I thought that same thing when i started tuning, and i blew up my fair share of motors (like 3 of them in my CRX). Now ive tuned more than 40 cars (ranging from civics, to Scion xB's, to celicas, to twin turbod SS454 trucks, etc). And i think i am finally able to call myself a decent tuner. And by decent i mean i make good power without sacrificing drivablility, longevity, and gas mileage.
i built (from scratch) every turbo system that has ever been on my car (total of 6 now). And i have done all the different parts installs myself (clutches, engine managements, electronics, suspension, etc). I would be assembling my block myself, but i had surgery on my shoulder last week, and i am on a strict deadline to have the car together for IDRC nationals on April 8th. So i am having a pro assemble the block for me while i am layed out (and useless).
So take if form me when i tell you that you cannot simply read a book and know how to tune a car. You really need to sit and watch a real tuner work. Watch him tune a bunch of cars and ask him questions and tips along the way. Tuning is all about the knowledge AND the experience. You could know everything there is to know about fuel systems, and still blow a motor up due to insuffiecient experience.
An experienced tuner knows the cars and the management systems inside and out. He knows all the quirks of the systems, and knows their downfalls. He knows how to make the car run like it was turbod from the factory.
Anyone can hook up an emanage, add fuel here and there, and make a car drive under boost. But it takes an experienced tuner to make the car truely perform properly. Even though it may look easy, tuning is an art.
I would not recommend you tune your own car simply because you think you can read up on it and be able to do it properly. I thought that same thing when i started tuning, and i blew up my fair share of motors (like 3 of them in my CRX). Now ive tuned more than 40 cars (ranging from civics, to Scion xB's, to celicas, to twin turbod SS454 trucks, etc). And i think i am finally able to call myself a decent tuner. And by decent i mean i make good power without sacrificing drivablility, longevity, and gas mileage.
Last time I had this much fun some furniture got broken!
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,839
Likes: 2
From: PA
Rep Power: 361
Originally Posted by TheSmuggler
I'm sorry mike but WTF is in your sig lol
7thgens official a$$hole
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 11,571
Likes: 0
From: St.Louis
Rep Power: 380 You don't need to know alot about turboing a car. but yo uneed to know alot about cars to turbo one. I installed everything myself, i never installed a turbo on a car in my life and decided to try it on mine. but i did do alot of research and reading and have been watching mechanics for a ton of years and learning whatever i can while they work. So before you say like everybody else on the site remember that there are a ton of us that perfer to do things ourselves.
Thread Starter
Registered!!
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
From: maryland
Rep Power: 0 ya i now i was just saying i respect people like u thats what i am trying to do learn on my owen and by watching others
Last edited by 04civicdx; Feb 7, 2006 at 10:53 AM.
well i am shooting for a low 14 all motor with a stock bottom end. PnP head stg 2 cam and springs cam gear, AEM EMS, rsx injectors, ex-lx head swap, GSR i/m, bored out t/b, and the header with complete exhaust and clutch flywheel combo i have now. if i have to throw on a little shot to make it into the 13's i will. but my main goal is to run a low 14 all motor with the stock bottom end. i think its plausable and possible. i am going to try to pull off about 160+whp
DONT PANIC
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,201
Likes: 1
From: California, Palmdale
Rep Power: 285
Originally Posted by familycar
well i am shooting for a low 14 all motor with a stock bottom end. PnP head stg 2 cam and springs cam gear, AEM EMS, rsx injectors, ex-lx head swap, GSR i/m, bored out t/b, and the header with complete exhaust and clutch flywheel combo i have now. if i have to throw on a little shot to make it into the 13's i will. but my main goal is to run a low 14 all motor with the stock bottom end. i think its plausable and possible. i am going to try to pull off about 160+whp
we went 13.7 on my friends semi-stock celica gts. He had a Power FC (like an AEM EMS), stock header, AEM intake, trd exhaust, weight reduction, fidanza 7lb flywheel, and some lightweight rims with drag radials.
the most important part was the weight reduction. He was only making 176 whp at the time. and he was able to pull off a 1.9 60/ft time
It is going to be a stretch to do it with a stock bottom end d17. I dont think you will be able to go low 14's. Possibly high 14's. But dont take this as an insult, take it as constructive criticism. I really would like to see someone start making some real gains with this motor naturally aspirated.
Originally Posted by turboengnr
good luck with that. I would love to see it happen.
we went 13.7 on my friends semi-stock celica gts. He had a Power FC (like an AEM EMS), stock header, AEM intake, trd exhaust, weight reduction, fidanza 7lb flywheel, and some lightweight rims with drag radials.
the most important part was the weight reduction. He was only making 176 whp at the time. and he was able to pull off a 1.9 60/ft time
It is going to be a stretch to do it with a stock bottom end d17. I dont think you will be able to go low 14's. Possibly high 14's. But dont take this as an insult, take it as constructive criticism. I really would like to see someone start making some real gains with this motor naturally aspirated.
we went 13.7 on my friends semi-stock celica gts. He had a Power FC (like an AEM EMS), stock header, AEM intake, trd exhaust, weight reduction, fidanza 7lb flywheel, and some lightweight rims with drag radials.
the most important part was the weight reduction. He was only making 176 whp at the time. and he was able to pull off a 1.9 60/ft time
It is going to be a stretch to do it with a stock bottom end d17. I dont think you will be able to go low 14's. Possibly high 14's. But dont take this as an insult, take it as constructive criticism. I really would like to see someone start making some real gains with this motor naturally aspirated.
DONT PANIC
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,201
Likes: 1
From: California, Palmdale
Rep Power: 285 i hope you reach that goal.
i too am doing my setup to prove people wrong. I built my motor with all of the highest quality components available for the D17. And my goal is 425 whp. Most people are sceptical. But i will prove them wrong, and i will reach my goal.
i too am doing my setup to prove people wrong. I built my motor with all of the highest quality components available for the D17. And my goal is 425 whp. Most people are sceptical. But i will prove them wrong, and i will reach my goal.
Originally Posted by turboengnr
i hope you reach that goal.
i too am doing my setup to prove people wrong. I built my motor with all of the highest quality components available for the D17. And my goal is 425 whp. Most people are sceptical. But i will prove them wrong, and i will reach my goal.
i too am doing my setup to prove people wrong. I built my motor with all of the highest quality components available for the D17. And my goal is 425 whp. Most people are sceptical. But i will prove them wrong, and i will reach my goal.
DONT PANIC
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,201
Likes: 1
From: California, Palmdale
Rep Power: 285 i was sceptical for a long time also. But last week i saw some guys install a Full-Race turbo system on a 98 civic lx, with stock cylinders, cp pistons, and eagle rods, and made 355 whp on 22 psi. Then they tuned the **** out of it and made 618 whp on like 38 psi.
i know theirs wont last long, but i have far superior parts to theirs, and i only want 425. I think it can be done
i know theirs wont last long, but i have far superior parts to theirs, and i only want 425. I think it can be done
was that on a d16 or a b series???
if a d16 then those are some very impressive numbers very impressive. i havent seen too many d series break the 350whp mrk. i would love to see the numbers once is said and done. as i will post my number as well
if a d16 then those are some very impressive numbers very impressive. i havent seen too many d series break the 350whp mrk. i would love to see the numbers once is said and done. as i will post my number as well
Registered!!
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,864
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Canada
Rep Power: 281
Originally Posted by turboengnr
i was sceptical for a long time also. But last week i saw some guys install a Full-Race turbo system on a 98 civic lx, with stock cylinders, cp pistons, and eagle rods, and made 355 whp on 22 psi. Then they tuned the **** out of it and made 618 whp on like 38 psi.
i know theirs wont last long, but i have far superior parts to theirs, and i only want 425. I think it can be done
i know theirs wont last long, but i have far superior parts to theirs, and i only want 425. I think it can be done
"they tuned the **** out of it" - well put..
