K&N Air Filters are BAD (fipk solution! PICS)
I finally got time to read this entire post this evening and decided to go check out my throttle body. I was expecting a terrible mess since I have not cleaned it since I put the FIPK on like 30K miles ago. When I opened I was suprised, what I saw was a suprisingly clean throttle body. Even my neighbor(a mechanic) was suprised how clean it was. We then decided to look at the throttle body on his 2003 Accord with 23K miles on it. Now he only has used OEM parts to maintain his car and once again we were suprised, his was disgusting. It was extremely dirty. So I am not so sure on this theory of K&N being completely at fault. I have always used K&N filters and so has he until he got this car, and we both agreed K&N did a much better job.
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From: NV
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Strange, because I had a K&N dropin for over a year and it was terrible. And I'm assuming you looked BELOW the butterfly valve and not just around the top edge. I only had the fipk on for a month and the PIPE had visible dust and dirt in it. That's what really scared me. Then I looked at the filter and could see all the holes when you hold it up to light. I'll sleep better knowing very few particles will make it through the paper filter. 
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i gotta tell ya, when i first found this post and started reading it, i was reminded of the scene in dumb and dumber when harry was in the bar and saw the newspaper from 1969 and yelled out, "WE LANDED ON THE MOON!!"
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From: Rockville, Maryland
Rep Power: 331 yea, there is serious SLUDGE coming out of the PCV from the head back into the TB. It was all over the TB when i took off my stock intake to install my cai.
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From: NV
Rep Power: 812 Interesting. I checked my tube just now and it looks brand new. The stock intake even has a plastic shield to prevent oil from moving down the TB. If you take the airbox off, you can feel it.
hmm this is very interesting this is going both ways some say it's fine others not. i dont care that i spent $50 on my filter. if it's gonna damage the car i'll take it out. it's not like i spent hundreds on it.
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Rep Power: 0 I can tell you this FOR SURE, I had a 98 Honda Passport, changed my filter with OEM ones at every recommended interval, never used a oiled filter or anything else, when I was having throttle sticking problems I looked in the TB and had TONS of black dust, It was carbon build up and id bet that is what you had there.
Also, there is a noticable difference between the K&N drop in filter and the stock one I had, I doubt you would notice .14% so it has to be closer to what they claim...
Also, there is a noticable difference between the K&N drop in filter and the stock one I had, I doubt you would notice .14% so it has to be closer to what they claim...
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Originally Posted by kornsined
hmm this is very interesting this is going both ways some say it's fine others not. i dont care that i spent $50 on my filter. if it's gonna damage the car i'll take it out. it's not like i spent hundreds on it.
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From: NV
Rep Power: 812 Good info. Like I said before, there was actual brown dirt and dust found inside the fipk intake tube, before the TB. This was only after a month of using the K&N cone filter. The other black stuff may be carbon, in which case my car has even more serious problems.
Originally Posted by flamike
Look and see how much dust is in the filter compartment (behind the filter) you can do a white glove test of sorts, if there is a lot, clean it good, go back to oem and check again after a few thousand miles... see how much beter it is
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Rep Power: 0 Im just saying to compare it to the K&N Filter if you are worried, how long has the K&N been on? If it was on 5,000 miles see how dirty it is, clean it then go back to the oem and see after 5,000 how bad it is...
if you car has 30 or 40K miles (or more) you should clean it first and do tests after because the 40K+ miles of dust buildup before you used the K&N isn't fair
if you car has 30 or 40K miles (or more) you should clean it first and do tests after because the 40K+ miles of dust buildup before you used the K&N isn't fair
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Originally Posted by gearbox
Good info. Like I said before, there was actual brown dirt and dust found inside the fipk intake tube, before the TB. This was only after a month of using the K&N cone filter. The other black stuff may be carbon, in which case my car has even more serious problems.
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From: NV
Rep Power: 812 Well it's only been a few days with the paper. I'll check in a week maybe to see what's happening. The fipk is still a good intake and I can feel the gain even with the paper filter. So hopefully it will filter better.
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Rep Power: 0 I just looked in the TB of my old civic (sold it to my cousin 3 years ago) it has had a K&N filter long before I sold it to him, it has never been cleaned and has about 50K miles on the filter (the car has ~170K miles) the filter is disgusting, little pink is left! but the TB is reasonably clean on top and under, some carbon buildup nothing out of the norm for a 170K mile engine.
I will post pics when I get them...
I think you should wait equal time to see how the new filters work for you, i dont think looking after 5K miles is fair.
I would bet it is your gasoline and combination of oil that is causing buildup.
I will post pics when I get them...
I think you should wait equal time to see how the new filters work for you, i dont think looking after 5K miles is fair.
I would bet it is your gasoline and combination of oil that is causing buildup.
Originally Posted by flamike
Im just saying to compare it to the K&N Filter if you are worried, how long has the K&N been on? If it was on 5,000 miles see how dirty it is, clean it then go back to the oem and see after 5,000 how bad it is...
if you car has 30 or 40K miles (or more) you should clean it first and do tests after because the 40K+ miles of dust buildup before you used the K&N isn't fair
if you car has 30 or 40K miles (or more) you should clean it first and do tests after because the 40K+ miles of dust buildup before you used the K&N isn't fair
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From: NV
Rep Power: 812 Well it looks like alot of the buildup comes from recycled engine gases. So I don't think much can be done. The air filter problem will most likely not be visible, since the dirt gets sucked into the engine where it can gradually wear down the pistons, valves, etc. by abrasive action.
Now bear in mind that although K&N is worse than paper, it is also better than alot of other filters out there. Foam and metal mesh filters offer little to no protection from dirt and dust. It really doesn't seem like the performance boost from the K&N is worth the extra dirt it lets in. Who here can honestly say they felt a difference when they got their dropin filter? I didn't even feel a difference between the K&N and paper cone filters on the fipk. If anything, I may have gotten even better results with the paper, seeing as it has 2x the surface area of the K&N (double the number of pleats).
Now bear in mind that although K&N is worse than paper, it is also better than alot of other filters out there. Foam and metal mesh filters offer little to no protection from dirt and dust. It really doesn't seem like the performance boost from the K&N is worth the extra dirt it lets in. Who here can honestly say they felt a difference when they got their dropin filter? I didn't even feel a difference between the K&N and paper cone filters on the fipk. If anything, I may have gotten even better results with the paper, seeing as it has 2x the surface area of the K&N (double the number of pleats).
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From: Rockville, Maryland
Rep Power: 331 i kinda feel like going in your direction too. I mean, any CAI that places the filter a few inches from the ground and behind the bumper probably isnt getting the best air quality. BUT, i wonder if you could do the same with other setups, not just the FIPK. on a cai you could try a splash/heatshield in combination with a paper cone element. I might give this a try too.
man............................this really sucks......
i spent $35+ for the K&N filter....and after reading the whole thread...i feel so uncomfortable driving my car with it...
well, i still have my old paper filter....still very clean.....
i drove around 3000 miles with my K&N.....when i opened my TB and slide my finger on the top part of the TB, it was clean actually.....there wasn't any black dust on my finger....
well............i drove 5000 miles at max with this K&N filter.....probably my TB wasn't dirty cos' the filter is still new...2 months old...
i think im gonna check under the butterfly thingie on the TB soon..........................
*damn*
i spent $35+ for the K&N filter....and after reading the whole thread...i feel so uncomfortable driving my car with it...
well, i still have my old paper filter....still very clean.....
i drove around 3000 miles with my K&N.....when i opened my TB and slide my finger on the top part of the TB, it was clean actually.....there wasn't any black dust on my finger....
well............i drove 5000 miles at max with this K&N filter.....probably my TB wasn't dirty cos' the filter is still new...2 months old...
i think im gonna check under the butterfly thingie on the TB soon..........................
*damn*
Last edited by zen_master; Jun 16, 2004 at 07:16 PM.
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From: NV
Rep Power: 812 I really wanted to try out that apexi power intake filter. But for $70 and a chance of it not fitting on, it wasn't worth it. The way it's designed to flow air and last forever with almost no maintenance sounds good. And it fiters/flows much better than K&N without oil.
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Rep Power: 0 a lot of people... like me for example... didn't buy the k&n drop in for the "boost" in power, but rather for the fact that u can clean it and reuse it again and again, as opposed to buying paper filters again and again, also that link that u sent where the person tested the filters by filtering the air again after the air filter and comparing that, all of those filters looked the same... i dunno if i'm the only one that thought that
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From: NV
Rep Power: 812 There were differences. Check this link for a much better comparison. You can really tell the difference.
http://mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/
http://mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/
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From: Murfreesboro, TN
Rep Power: 0 it says the k&n is "good" which is what i've been saying all along... that was a good site
also i checked the apexi site and they dont have a replacement for the 7th gen civic so the next best one, according to that site, is the k&n
also i checked the apexi site and they dont have a replacement for the 7th gen civic so the next best one, according to that site, is the k&n
Last edited by MTFlyBoy; Jun 16, 2004 at 10:47 PM.
Thread Starter
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From: NV
Rep Power: 812 Yeah it's good, but dirt still gets in the engine. I guess over time it will add up. But then again, if you change the oil every 3k, maybe nothing will happen. I guess I made this sound like the K&N isn't working, when in fact is actually does a GOOD job of filtering. It's not the best, and it's not as good as paper. But at least you don't have the HKS. Man that thing was terrible.
what all this huff and puff to come to the conclusion that the k&n is not the best but is still good?..either way thanks gearbox for the concern. now every oil change i'll keep an eye on the TB and filter compartment where as previously i probably wouldn't of.
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From: Rockville, Maryland
Rep Power: 331 im pretty sure the HKS is simply a race-day filter, not meant for daily use. Whereas the K&N comes inbetween that and a normal paper element. K&N still has my vote, its a good product and it does what they advertise it will do. Filter, and last forever. Certainly there are things they wont tell you, but I think everyone will have slightly different results because there are just so many variables involved in this.
