K&N Air Filters are BAD (fipk solution! PICS)
No offense Gear, but I really don't think the carbon buildup in your TB can be blamed on a K&N filter. BTW a mechanic (who knows what he's doing) air brushes my FIPK filter about every 6 months so it only has to be re-oiled about every 30k miles. Appreciate the info though and I think I will inspect my TB next time I bring it in for service.
Last edited by obguam; Jun 13, 2004 at 07:59 AM. Reason: add comment:
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Originally Posted by blouisgod
I replaced my k&n with a HKS monster flow. Its foam wrapped around paper element and it works the same. You just cant wash it. Large carbon buildup on parts is usually due to poor timing and fuel atomization, or so I was taught. You should look into increasing timing and finding your a/f ratio at all points of the power curve.
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Rep Power: 0 Well, wherever the buildup came from, the K&N type filters are still not as good at filtration as paper. Here is my "take" on the whole "intake" thing (get it.... take......intake......oh, never mind!). I've always felt that the small power gains that you do get from a CAI is really more so from the fact that the air travels smoother and straighter to your TB, almost "ramming" it into the intake (with the trade-off of being louder) vs. the stock intake that travels in all kinds of different paths (Honda designed it to make it quieter) and not so much from the filter itself. So the IDEAL setup would be a CAI with a paper cone filter...
Still no word on a paper cone filter that may fit an AEM CAI?
Still no word on a paper cone filter that may fit an AEM CAI?
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Rep Power: 0 This isn't the first time this has come up and I'm wondering where all of those worn out engines are. I keep hearing this and I'd like someone to show me the parts that don't work very well anymore. I'm still using my K&N and have used them for years without ill effect.
That said, I think that cotton filters have a rightful place in our cars and that they offer things that an OEM filter can't. If you are concerned by what you've heard about K&N filters here is a link to a company, Green Filter that seems to have addressed this issue.
I've never used their products and I haven't seen a store that carries them but perhaps someone here can check them out. I don't think that there is a need to throw away your aftermarket intakes just quit yet.
That said, I think that cotton filters have a rightful place in our cars and that they offer things that an OEM filter can't. If you are concerned by what you've heard about K&N filters here is a link to a company, Green Filter that seems to have addressed this issue.
I've never used their products and I haven't seen a store that carries them but perhaps someone here can check them out. I don't think that there is a need to throw away your aftermarket intakes just quit yet.
Last edited by Flashlightboy; Jun 13, 2004 at 09:45 AM.
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Well the green filters are the same as K&N imo. The member who said apexi is the best knows what he's talking about. They have an oilless material that filters better than K&N, but unfortunately it only fits their own power intake system (there isn't one available for our cars).
http://mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/
Apexi also makes the claim that you never have to maintain it. Should last a lifetime.
And the buildup on the TB was VERY fine particles. Almost like suit from a chimney of something. When I looked at it on the rag, it was like powder. There is no other place this could have come from being directly below the intake pipe, unless the engine is blowing back air somehow.
Now I found tons of carbon in the header as well, but it's more like rock.
I think this is a serious issue that needs to be solved. I like the added power of the K&N fipk, so let's work on trying to find a replacement filter for it that works.
Now those that have the K&N OEM drop-in filter should just remove it. It's definately not worth it for the 0.14% better flow you're getting.
http://mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/
Apexi also makes the claim that you never have to maintain it. Should last a lifetime.
And the buildup on the TB was VERY fine particles. Almost like suit from a chimney of something. When I looked at it on the rag, it was like powder. There is no other place this could have come from being directly below the intake pipe, unless the engine is blowing back air somehow.
Now I found tons of carbon in the header as well, but it's more like rock.
I think this is a serious issue that needs to be solved. I like the added power of the K&N fipk, so let's work on trying to find a replacement filter for it that works.
Now those that have the K&N OEM drop-in filter should just remove it. It's definately not worth it for the 0.14% better flow you're getting.
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Rep Power: 812 And guess what else? My fipk intake was only on the car for a month and there's already dust inside the tube! I'm pissed!!! Yeah the car got alot slower with the stock intake back on, but it's just not worth it.
The throttle body is the thing that the intake tube sits on, or it's just below the stock filter box if you remove it. There's a "butterfly valve" that's golden and should be closed when the car is off. You can open it by moving a lever behind the opening. Then just get some TB cleaner and spray on a cloth to wipe inside. This is not even the main problem. If this much junk got stuck to the TB, I wonder how much went straight to the engine?
I'm adding K&N to my list of bad products:
1) DH-racing
2) AEM
3) K&N
Who will be next? Only time will tell.
List of good vendors include...Thermal, NGK, Apexi, Napa.
The throttle body is the thing that the intake tube sits on, or it's just below the stock filter box if you remove it. There's a "butterfly valve" that's golden and should be closed when the car is off. You can open it by moving a lever behind the opening. Then just get some TB cleaner and spray on a cloth to wipe inside. This is not even the main problem. If this much junk got stuck to the TB, I wonder how much went straight to the engine?
I'm adding K&N to my list of bad products:
1) DH-racing
2) AEM
3) K&N
Who will be next? Only time will tell.
List of good vendors include...Thermal, NGK, Apexi, Napa.
Last edited by gearbox; Jun 13, 2004 at 02:07 PM.
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Rep Power: 368 well I guess thats your conclusion...
in either case you can get the apexi filter to fit with certain SRI i believe.. I duno about the FIPK cuz of how that opening works, you can always find ways to mod it to fit.
but with other SRI.. just find a 80mm to whatever diameter adapter the SRI is to fit on an apexi universal filter.
be aware that the apexi filter cost anywhere from a whooping 70-80 bucks though. unless price has changed significantly since i last checked.
in either case you can get the apexi filter to fit with certain SRI i believe.. I duno about the FIPK cuz of how that opening works, you can always find ways to mod it to fit.
but with other SRI.. just find a 80mm to whatever diameter adapter the SRI is to fit on an apexi universal filter.
be aware that the apexi filter cost anywhere from a whooping 70-80 bucks though. unless price has changed significantly since i last checked.
Last edited by CapYoda; Jun 13, 2004 at 03:24 PM.
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Rep Power: 812 Where can I get an adapter? The fipk also has a rubber thing around it to fit the heat shield. So that would have to come off. Then the tube is smaller than the apexi filter opening. So I need something that will make it 20mm bigger or something. Maybe I'll just stay stock for a while.
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Rep Power: 368 well I havne't really seen how different the bottom of an apexi filter works. it looks different than other filters.. maybe tahts why they have special apexi adapters for the same price of the filter too.. lol. so thats 70 bucks for the filter, and 70 bucks for an adapter... or at least, the apexi one.
there should be other adapters available to make it fit.
here's the list:
http://www.optauto.com/webstore/prod...1311&last=1311
thats from a quick search.. optauto is one of the more expensive online retail.. so shop around.
although I wouldn't know if the apexi will work as well as you'd hope too, and not to mention the steep price.. not sure if its worth it.
but if you really never have to maintain it.. and it last the life of the car.. and if it filters better than stock.. why not I guess. eventually be paying more for replacement stock paper anyway.
there should be other adapters available to make it fit.
here's the list:
http://www.optauto.com/webstore/prod...1311&last=1311
thats from a quick search.. optauto is one of the more expensive online retail.. so shop around.
although I wouldn't know if the apexi will work as well as you'd hope too, and not to mention the steep price.. not sure if its worth it.
but if you really never have to maintain it.. and it last the life of the car.. and if it filters better than stock.. why not I guess. eventually be paying more for replacement stock paper anyway.
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Rep Power: 812 AEM sri, cam gear. Some people don't like the pads, either. I'm sick of companies making stupid products that don't work. Even worse when they lie about gains or cover up test results.
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Rep Power: 0 If you still have your AEM SRI, you might be better off trying to mod the filter onto that, no pesky K&N heatshield in the way. If not, could you mod the heatshield once you get an adapter rigged up for the new filter? That's really the best part of the whole K&N FIPK setup!
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From: NV
Rep Power: 812 Both. The fipk actually had dirt all inside the intake tube after less than a month of use. I held it up to the light and you can see the tiny holes in the material. Same for drop-in. Cotton gauze just isn't as good as paper for filtering air.
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man, gearbox, i still dont really understand how ur getting a "carbon buildup" from ur intake? also... i thought it was really common knowledge that if u messed with an intake it was a trade off between amount of filtration and amount of airflow... maybe i was wrong though....
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Rep Power: 0 Sorry I'm not too knowledgeable with engines. Which is the part that you cleaned out and found lots of dirt (Throttle body?)? Is it indicated by my arrow? I want to see if its as dirty for me, becuase I have a K&N Drop-in filter. Thanks.
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Rep Power: 0 I used K&N replacement filter for 2.5 years on my Civic ex now, about 65000 miles.
No problem at all, but I usually clean my TB with TB cleaner, and spray into the TB when the engine is running. But I never see major carbon build up.
You can't put too much oil in the K&N filter.
No problem at all, but I usually clean my TB with TB cleaner, and spray into the TB when the engine is running. But I never see major carbon build up.
You can't put too much oil in the K&N filter.
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Rep Power: 0 Yes you can. If you oil your filter too much, no air will go through. The oil is used to stop particles from entering the filter but not the air from entering the filter.
Originally Posted by EM2Civic
but I usually clean my TB with TB cleaner, and spray into the TB when the engine is running. But I never see major carbon build up.
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Rep Power: 320 How would you clean your intake manifold?
In the old days people would just spray diesel into the TB and it did a decent job cleaning the manifold, but our manifolds are made of plastic.
In the old days people would just spray diesel into the TB and it did a decent job cleaning the manifold, but our manifolds are made of plastic.
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Rep Power: 278 Does anyone know how small a particle K&N is supposed to catch? After reading the FAQ for the green filter it looks interesting at the least. K&N is made using 4 layers of cotton gauze (like a bandage) VS. the green filter which is made of 2 layers of tightly woven cotton (like an oxford shirt). It is an oiled filter but supposedly it holds the oil much more evenly because of the tighter weave. Also according t the site it will catch particles as small as 5 microns.
Last edited by gaugeof12; Jun 14, 2004 at 05:55 PM.
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Rep Power: 812 What about particles smaller than 5 microns. I don't think a filter that needs to be oiled will do a good job. Do you really think oil is gonna hold dirt traveling 100+mph through the filter? Sure the big particles will get trapped, but alot of smaller ones will make it through.
For the TB. The arrow is pointing at the right spot. If you look inside the hole, there's a yellow/bronze cover. If you move the lever behind the TB, it will open up. Then you can stick a rag in and clean below the valve. That's where all the black dirt and crap was.
For the TB. The arrow is pointing at the right spot. If you look inside the hole, there's a yellow/bronze cover. If you move the lever behind the TB, it will open up. Then you can stick a rag in and clean below the valve. That's where all the black dirt and crap was.
