Wankenstein

'95 Civic EX Coupe with B20B, manual transmission. No CEL. BLox medium length cold air intake (installed by previous owner).

Engine often stalls when starting on inclines and declines even on full tank of gas. Doesn't stall on them during normal driving and idling and doesn't stall on flat surfaces when starting. Also, often has a fuel odor after driving when shutting off engine. This has been going on for a month or more and I haven't spent much time tracking down the source but, there isn't any visible fuel leaks in engine bay. I haven't raised the car yet to check fuel lines.

The previous owner installed zip ties on both ends of hose that connects TB to fuel regulator and they pulled off easily so I replaced the zip ties with clamps. Two months ago I replaced the fuel filler neck that was leaking. I removed and cleaned the TB and IACV a couple months ago that solve a high idle issue. A hunting idle (between 800-1200 rpms) persist though that occurs during deceleration close to stops/idle and last about 3-5 seconds then stabilizes (sometimes intermittent).

Previous owner said he replaced fuel pump a year ago but not sure if he replaced the fuel filter. The TB is from an integra that replaces the stock giraffe neck style. I plan to spend time with it tomorrow to search for vacuum, fuel leaks and replace fuel filter. Could a faulty fuel pressure regulator or leaking injectors cause the stalling at inclines/declines?

This may be the issue..I will test tonight:

ezone

IMO no.

Wankenstein

But, I want it to be so it's an easy fix

The previous owner mounted a fuel pressure gauge on top of the fuel filter. I can have my son crank the engine on incline/decline while I make note of the fuel pressure and compare to fuel pressure on level ground.

ezone

Sit car on incline
Figure out what went missing(?) to cause the stall
Diagnose why _____ went AWOL only on an incline

Wankenstein

You probably know better than anyone that when it comes to repair it's a surprise if it turns out to be an easy fix. I'm actually looking forward to trying to track down the issue but an easy fix is always nice.

The policeman in your (fictional) post/story was probably more upset because he couldn't count this towards his DUI quota. DUI's are big money maker for counties. The MADD campaign in the 80's while well intentioned and beneficial was an excuse for states and counties to figure out ways to increase revenues. DUI is the only misdemeanor that cannot be expunged and stays on a person's record for 75 years. Please don't get me wrong I don't support drinking and driving and there needs to be consequences but, there should be more (there is some) leeway for judges to rule on DUI's depending on blood alcohol level, property damages, injuries, etc..

I probably sound like I've been arrested for a DUI but, I haven't. I do know a few people that have been and it has cost them a lot in job searches, insurance cost, fines, fees, community hours. Now, if someone gets more than one DUI..I have no pity on them. Please forgive my rant..went off on a tangent.

A lawyer recently told me that if a person wants to sleep off intoxication in their car it's best to place the keys somewhere outside of the car so there's proof the engine wasn't running and no intention to drive if a police officer approaches.

I should clarify that it's more of a hard start than a stall. If I rev and finesse the engine it may or may not start properly without stalling.
Coast to a flat area and it starts right away. Never an issue on cold start or at operating temp on a level surface.

My simple mind leads me to possibilty of fuel pressure changes on incline or decline. My car with the engine combination is a Frankenmutt and that may be part of the problem. Only found a few related threads of any of car's with this issue to help clue me in but, all end with no solution other than coast to a flat surface to start. I'll hopefully get to spend some time with it this Friday.

Wankenstein

I found this reply on a random related thread: "You have a fuel leak albeit a small one. Basically all the fuel is running back into the tank where it should be held in the lines by vacuum."

Does often have a fuel smell when engine is shut off. Also, when I replaced the filler neck the smaller pipe (vent tube?) spring clamp fit but it is loose so, I will replace that with a screw type.

ezone

From the engine compartment? Have you tried pinching off the EVAP canister (and) purge line(s) near the intake? (just in case the EVAP canister system is leaking fuel vapor into the engine during startup)
So put a fuel pressure gauge on it and prove your theory. Or disprove it.

I'm 'inclined' (no pun intended LOL) to think it will be electrical related, but Mr. Frank N. Stein says there could be any amount of hacked/botched/boogered/cobbled stuff to cause problems as well.

Does the ECM support scantool datastream? For a short few years prior to the introduction of OBD2, a 3 wire data link plug was used to connect Hondas old PGMFI scantool.

Wankenstein

And this is why I post first and procrastinate before approaching the problem..lol. I would've never thought of that and will be on the list to test.

Good one.
If it is electrically related then it will most likely just have to remain an issue.

It may (not sure). The seller told me it reads as shown in video:

ezone

Not blink codes.

Live operating data.



Did I ask what the ECM part number is?

Wankenstein

Will list ECM part number later this morning.

I built ramps last year out of 2x10" that will serve as incline/decline to help replicate the no start/stall. Finally have time set aside later this morning to investigate.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

you have a magical hand on finding cars with troubles, sir...

Wankenstein

What can I say?...it's a gift..lol
One in which I would like to give back.

Actually, I really like this car and while does have some issues: some known prior to purchase and some unknown, it's most likely my favorite car that I've ever owned..depending on how long it last.

Wankenstein

I think I found the source..Evap can is missing..lol
Thankfully (I guess) I live in Florida and no emmissions checks.

The return (vapor) line that was once connected to an evap can has been cut and left open. Should I seal it shut with a bolt inserted into it or leave it open?

Seems like it would throw a code...and yes the CEL light does work because I've unplugged the IACV before and started it and it threw a CEL light.

Opened TB flap and intake manifold smells like gas but, not sure if that's normal or not. I replaced the loose spring clamp on the smaller filler neck tube(s) but, probably wasn't an issue anyway..wasn't leaking.

Wankenstein

I researched inline concerning plugging off evap line and it's not good..as in can cause feul tank to collapse and possibly explode and Turd's (3rd person douche) is not into that..lol

Related link: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...ove-vapor.html (reply #18 related to my posted issue)

I might look into installing a new or used charcoal canister or re-routing with metal tubing to back of car away from exhaust pipe. Not sure why the previous seller would omit the canister unless it caused engine issue or an endless CEL issue. I texted him about but, no reply to this point.

ezone

Leave lines open as-is, they need to be able to vent tank pressure/vacuum.

I just wanted to make sure fuel vapors aren't getting into the intake manifold when they aren't supposed to, causing the engine to act flooded.
Only OBD2 requires monitoring of evap items. Your ECM isn't OBD2.

"We don't need no steeeenkin' emissions parts!"

Wankenstein

Yep.. I did.

I have the car backed up on (declne) on ramps and the intake manifold does have a strong gas smell when the I opened the TB flap.

Should I bother with adding an evap can or just leave it as it? I could probably pull a used one at a local yard or something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/1421078...&ul_noapp=true I've seen pics of the can located either by gas tank or on firewall near battery. Looks like the one on my car was mounted on the firewall.
'

ezone

Normal.


Have you tried flooring the gas pedal during cranking?
It's not hurting anything right now, is it?

Wankenstein

Okay. Thanks

No. I will though next time the issue happens. I do finesse the gas pedal to get it past stalling and that works fairly well.

No, except for my schnozstrels when I breath the gas fumes in. Also, not crazy about it when starting the car...though it hasn't been a hazard to this point.

Wankenstein

Some good may have come out of today. I think I may have fixed a couple small vacuum leaks by replacing some zip tied vacuum lines with clamps and one sensor on the cold air intake was loose and sloppily installed. I ended up using slightly larger diameter bolts and cellulose gasket-maker material between that sensor and the CIA and now it's idling smoother and seems to be accelerating better.

I forgot to mention that fuel pressure is at 32 psi at idle and up to 35 psi when revved. Tried on level, incline and decline surfaces and readings remained constant. Also, pulled vacuum line off of the fuel pressure regulator and no gas leak or smell.