Power gains with stock engine?
Hiya! I'm new to the forums. Background is that I recently got a 1996 Civic Hatchback CX as a project car to learn how to work on cars (so if I use incorrect terminology, please forgive me). One of the things I would love to do is put some more power behind it, as it currently has all stock engine components (D16Y7 with a whopping 106 hp and automatic transmission). Up front, I don't care about racing or quarter mile times at all, I'd just like to have more power when I use it as a daily driver.
One of the easiest ways to achieve this is with an engine swap, which I've been trying to do some research on. But I was wondering, are there things I could be doing with this stock engine to get it to 150-200 hp (aftermarket intake/exhaust/etc)? Or is the general sentiment that it's not even worth trying and just to go to an engine swap?
Also, full disclosure, one of the reasons I ask is because I'm still learning, the idea of an engine swap seems daunting/intimidating to me, so I'm wondering if there are less drastic ways to achieve measurable gains with this engine until I'm more comfortable working on it.
One of the easiest ways to achieve this is with an engine swap, which I've been trying to do some research on. But I was wondering, are there things I could be doing with this stock engine to get it to 150-200 hp (aftermarket intake/exhaust/etc)? Or is the general sentiment that it's not even worth trying and just to go to an engine swap?
Also, full disclosure, one of the reasons I ask is because I'm still learning, the idea of an engine swap seems daunting/intimidating to me, so I'm wondering if there are less drastic ways to achieve measurable gains with this engine until I'm more comfortable working on it.
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Re: Power gains with stock engine?
Only way to get that kind of increase in the stock engine would be to turbo it, which is very expensive compared to swapping the engine. Try to find a wrecked/rotted manual integra for cheap and that will give you almost everything you need to do a bswap
Re: Power gains with stock engine?
K swap would probably be cheaper these days than turbo setup, especially if you can snag a wrecked rsx or civic si, for cheap. That way you would have all needed parts (engine, harness, ecu, transmission, axles...)
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Re: Power gains with stock engine?
building that little d-series to 200 whp would be impressive if you went the n/a route. Expensive, but impressive. Turbo would be the most feasible way to get to that power level. Did a quick search on people that messed with the D16Y7, and here's the parts list of a guy that's rocking 203WHP. Anything in bold is something I added to speculate specific parts
The snail alone in this build is prolly close to a grand. Godspeed uses turbonetics turbochargers and that t3/t4 is a nice series of turbos. Even moreso if it's a ball bearing turbo. Since it's an external wastegated turbo, I'd be willing to bet that it is a ball bearing turbo.
We'll say 750 for that turbo.
$500 for a hondata s300
$500 (failing high) for dyno tuning
we'll say another 1500 for turbo plumbing (including turbo mani, fmic, wastegate, intake mani, y8 TB, etc. Honestly, that's prolly a low estimate including all those components, especially if the plumbing is custom)
$300 for that custom exhaust? sure. Nah, we'll say 500. Let's say he went with a fancy muffler and an expensive shop.
$200 injectors
Just what I have listed alone is about $3.2k. Walbro 255lph pump is another 100. Plugs prolly $25-50 if you shop right ($100+ if you dont). And if you pick-a-part the exhaust conversion stuff it'll be cheaper.
You can prolly find a K20A with tranny and ecu for that price, but installation is another story, unless you wanna go full-on DIY. K20A is rated at like.. 212hp (so you'd be making about 180-190-ish at the wheels) with an otherwise stock engine. It'd be a hell of a lot more reliable than a turbo setup, that's for damn sure. That, and the K20A[x] engines are kinda badasses.
lookie. $3850 for a k20a with tranny, ecu, and LSD with 45-65k on it
Engine : d16y7 stock internals 107hp factory. I average 40mpg before turbo. Originally without vtec. Sohc.
Tranny : 5 speed long gears
Upgrades:
Fuel pump. Walbro 255lph.
Fuel injectors. Dsm 450cc blue tops with resistor box.
Automatic 96-98 ex intake manifold (but you will need a manual ex manifold for the two wire iacv)
Y7 throttle body.y8 rotor (You will need y8 throttle body.)
Cold spark plugs (most likely denso/nkg iridiums)
Ex cat converted
Full 2.5" exhaust
Chipped obd1 ecu (likely hondata)
Conversion harness
Maintenance:
Synthetic oil
spark plugs and wires
Cap and rotor
Coolant flush
Make sure your car runs 100% correct. Before the Turbo or else you will have a bad build.
Turbo parts
Cast-iron manifold
Godspeed t3t4 .50 trim (I think)
Godspeed fmic
Godspeed external waste gate with 10psi spring (open dump tube)
knock off gready type rs bov (vented to atmosphere)
Custom downpipe
This setup was able to make 202.7 whp. At 5.8k rpm and 185.4 ft-lb at 4.7k rpm
Tuned on chrome
Elevation 5280 above sea level
Tranny : 5 speed long gears
Upgrades:
Fuel pump. Walbro 255lph.
Fuel injectors. Dsm 450cc blue tops with resistor box.
Automatic 96-98 ex intake manifold (but you will need a manual ex manifold for the two wire iacv)
Y7 throttle body.y8 rotor (You will need y8 throttle body.)
Cold spark plugs (most likely denso/nkg iridiums)
Ex cat converted
Full 2.5" exhaust
Chipped obd1 ecu (likely hondata)
Conversion harness
Maintenance:
Synthetic oil
spark plugs and wires
Cap and rotor
Coolant flush
Make sure your car runs 100% correct. Before the Turbo or else you will have a bad build.
Turbo parts
Cast-iron manifold
Godspeed t3t4 .50 trim (I think)
Godspeed fmic
Godspeed external waste gate with 10psi spring (open dump tube)
knock off gready type rs bov (vented to atmosphere)
Custom downpipe
This setup was able to make 202.7 whp. At 5.8k rpm and 185.4 ft-lb at 4.7k rpm
Tuned on chrome
Elevation 5280 above sea level
The snail alone in this build is prolly close to a grand. Godspeed uses turbonetics turbochargers and that t3/t4 is a nice series of turbos. Even moreso if it's a ball bearing turbo. Since it's an external wastegated turbo, I'd be willing to bet that it is a ball bearing turbo.
We'll say 750 for that turbo.
$500 for a hondata s300
$500 (failing high) for dyno tuning
we'll say another 1500 for turbo plumbing (including turbo mani, fmic, wastegate, intake mani, y8 TB, etc. Honestly, that's prolly a low estimate including all those components, especially if the plumbing is custom)
$300 for that custom exhaust? sure. Nah, we'll say 500. Let's say he went with a fancy muffler and an expensive shop.
$200 injectors
Just what I have listed alone is about $3.2k. Walbro 255lph pump is another 100. Plugs prolly $25-50 if you shop right ($100+ if you dont). And if you pick-a-part the exhaust conversion stuff it'll be cheaper.
You can prolly find a K20A with tranny and ecu for that price, but installation is another story, unless you wanna go full-on DIY. K20A is rated at like.. 212hp (so you'd be making about 180-190-ish at the wheels) with an otherwise stock engine. It'd be a hell of a lot more reliable than a turbo setup, that's for damn sure. That, and the K20A[x] engines are kinda badasses.
lookie. $3850 for a k20a with tranny, ecu, and LSD with 45-65k on it
Re: Power gains with stock engine?
xRiCeBoYx, mac25, Colin42 -
Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond! Your answers all seem very reasonable and confirmed my suspicion that going engine swap is probably going to be the best long-term option, as I'd prefer to stay with NA as long as possible before getting into super/turbo charging. I love the idea of finding a cheap donor car that should include most of the major components that I'll need. I just started reading this post on 6th gen civic engine swaps, which seems like a great starting place.
Thank you for the link to the engine/tranny/ecu/lsd xRiCeBoYx! I think I'll also try to come up with a list of types of donor cars that would have the kinds of engines/transmissions I'd want and start trolling sites like Copart to find cheap auctions on candidates with rear/top/side damage.
Thank you all again for the great info!
Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond! Your answers all seem very reasonable and confirmed my suspicion that going engine swap is probably going to be the best long-term option, as I'd prefer to stay with NA as long as possible before getting into super/turbo charging. I love the idea of finding a cheap donor car that should include most of the major components that I'll need. I just started reading this post on 6th gen civic engine swaps, which seems like a great starting place.
Thank you for the link to the engine/tranny/ecu/lsd xRiCeBoYx! I think I'll also try to come up with a list of types of donor cars that would have the kinds of engines/transmissions I'd want and start trolling sites like Copart to find cheap auctions on candidates with rear/top/side damage.
Thank you all again for the great info!
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Re: Power gains with stock engine?
Just a heads up. The engine to which I was referring -- the K20A -- is a Japanese engine. Yeah, yeah, Honda is a Japanese (car) brand, but that engine specifically was only available on Japanese-market cars. To be precise, that engine came in the 2001-2011 Civic Type R, 2001-2006 Integra Type R, and the JDM 2002-2008 Accord Euro-R. You won't be readily finding them in the American salvage market.
The K20A2 and -A3, however, were both available in the American market. The -A2 was found in the RSX Type S and the -A3 was found in the EP3 02-05 Civic Si and the DC5 RSX base model. The -A2's compression ratio is 11:1 (compared to the 11.5:1 in the K20A) and boasts about 10-15hp less, compared to the K20A. The -A3's compression ratio is even lower, at a 9.8:1, and that was only making 160hp.
That said, it might be easier (and cheaper) to find the -A2 or -A3, but it comes with a slight sacrifice in power.
No lie, I knew some of that info off the top of my head, but wikipedia was referenced for some specifics.
If you're feeling really frisky, you can find salvaged 10thgens and drop in the L15B7 1.5L turbo. It's a fun engine. Still kinda new, and some reports of fuel dilution, particularly in colder climates, but man, even with the CVT it flies and gets great fuel economy. It'd be interesting to figure out that swap, though, since there are so many electronics spidered into that ECU
The K20A2 and -A3, however, were both available in the American market. The -A2 was found in the RSX Type S and the -A3 was found in the EP3 02-05 Civic Si and the DC5 RSX base model. The -A2's compression ratio is 11:1 (compared to the 11.5:1 in the K20A) and boasts about 10-15hp less, compared to the K20A. The -A3's compression ratio is even lower, at a 9.8:1, and that was only making 160hp.
That said, it might be easier (and cheaper) to find the -A2 or -A3, but it comes with a slight sacrifice in power.
No lie, I knew some of that info off the top of my head, but wikipedia was referenced for some specifics.
If you're feeling really frisky, you can find salvaged 10thgens and drop in the L15B7 1.5L turbo. It's a fun engine. Still kinda new, and some reports of fuel dilution, particularly in colder climates, but man, even with the CVT it flies and gets great fuel economy. It'd be interesting to figure out that swap, though, since there are so many electronics spidered into that ECU
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