started and ran fine, then just stalled and wont restart
08-20-2017
#1
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 
started and ran fine, then just stalled and wont restart
Hi All,
My formerly trusty 98 Civic fired up just like normal this morning when I sold it to a nice lady.
Not 3 hours later she called me to let me know it had "bogged down and then stopped running" and now won't fire. The lady says she really needs a car ASAP so I really want to do right by her and get it back up and running.
Every time I started this car it started right up and ran just fine even if it had been sitting a month. It has sat for a little bit but I ran if for 5 minutes just a week ago without any issue at all!
I know the guide says check for spark and fuel. I think I smell fuel coming out of the exhaust... I think...(but could be wrong).
I checked the fuse box under the hood and the one in the cabin. the one labeled FI was fine, the only labeled fuel pump was also fine. I *think* I hear the pump kicking on but I'm not sure, it was always quiet, and I think the airbag initializing makes noise at the same time so I never knew which was which.
I did the plugs, wires, distributer cap, and, rotor maybe 2 years ago.
The only things I can think are water got in the fuel and now its not firing or maybe something clogged the fuel filter. I threw some HEET in the tank in the hopes it will help clear out enough to get it to fire again. other than killing the battery would cranking the thing forever (until the water it out) do any other damage? I'm concerned the oil system might not function if its not running.
I'm on the way to the parts store to get a cheap plug to check for spark now.... what else can I do? is there a relay I should be checking?
My formerly trusty 98 Civic fired up just like normal this morning when I sold it to a nice lady.
Not 3 hours later she called me to let me know it had "bogged down and then stopped running" and now won't fire. The lady says she really needs a car ASAP so I really want to do right by her and get it back up and running.
Every time I started this car it started right up and ran just fine even if it had been sitting a month. It has sat for a little bit but I ran if for 5 minutes just a week ago without any issue at all!
I know the guide says check for spark and fuel. I think I smell fuel coming out of the exhaust... I think...(but could be wrong).
I checked the fuse box under the hood and the one in the cabin. the one labeled FI was fine, the only labeled fuel pump was also fine. I *think* I hear the pump kicking on but I'm not sure, it was always quiet, and I think the airbag initializing makes noise at the same time so I never knew which was which.
I did the plugs, wires, distributer cap, and, rotor maybe 2 years ago.
The only things I can think are water got in the fuel and now its not firing or maybe something clogged the fuel filter. I threw some HEET in the tank in the hopes it will help clear out enough to get it to fire again. other than killing the battery would cranking the thing forever (until the water it out) do any other damage? I'm concerned the oil system might not function if its not running.
I'm on the way to the parts store to get a cheap plug to check for spark now.... what else can I do? is there a relay I should be checking?
08-20-2017
#3
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
08-20-2017
#4
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: started and ran fine, then just stalled and wont restart
I know the guide says check for spark and fuel.
08-20-2017
#5
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 Re: started and ran fine, then just stalled and wont restart
It appears to be no spark. I pulled all four plugs and they were all soaked with gas.
otherwise looked ok.
crank position sensor?
I got a pretty bad valve cover oil leak which soaked the bottom of the distributed and down.
under the cap the rotor and the cap itself look ok, the gasket kept the crap out.
I also pulled the plug out and left it laying on top of the valve cover while I crank the motor I didn't see any Spark. Then tried the same thing with a screwdriver in the spark plug wire also don't think there was any spark
otherwise looked ok.
crank position sensor?
I got a pretty bad valve cover oil leak which soaked the bottom of the distributed and down.
under the cap the rotor and the cap itself look ok, the gasket kept the crap out.
I also pulled the plug out and left it laying on top of the valve cover while I crank the motor I didn't see any Spark. Then tried the same thing with a screwdriver in the spark plug wire also don't think there was any spark
08-20-2017
#6
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: started and ran fine, then just stalled and wont restart
I also pulled the plug out and left it laying on top of the valve cover while I crank the motor I didn't see any Spark
A good coil should be able to make a spark about 10mm or longer.
If you can coax a spark that's only 1mm and no more, put a coil in it.
If no spark at all, more testing is needed.
If it's an aftermarket distributor, see if it has lifetime warranty.
Got any fault codes?
08-21-2017
#7
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 Re: started and ran fine, then just stalled and wont restart
Now you backtrack to the distributor. Remove dist cap, have someone crank the engine while you check for spark using an insulated and grounded test probe (long screwdriver is my fave)....hold it up to the coil tower, have someone crank it, watch for spark as you very slowly increase the gap between the coil tower and screwdriver.
we
A good coil should be able to make a spark about 10mm or longer.
If you can coax a spark that's only 1mm and no more, put a coil in it.
If no spark at all, more testing is needed.
If it's an aftermarket distributor, see if it has lifetime warranty.
Got any fault codes?
we
A good coil should be able to make a spark about 10mm or longer.
If you can coax a spark that's only 1mm and no more, put a coil in it.
If no spark at all, more testing is needed.
If it's an aftermarket distributor, see if it has lifetime warranty.
Got any fault codes?
how do you ground the screwdriver ?
no codes.
But the ohm reading on the ignition coil from the A pin to the secondary winding is 9kohms. Spec is 12k to 22kohms. The A pin to B pin is supposed to be a fraction of one ohm, my reader can't get down that low.
hoping that's what it is.... 40 bucks...
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-civic-del-sol-1992-2000-1/testing-ignition-coils-ohms-good-bad-2830157/
this is where I'm getting the spec numbers from.
08-21-2017
#8
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: started and ran fine, then just stalled and wont restart
Most of the coil failures I saw in 6th gen distributors were not winding failures, they would pass an ohm check (I rarely ever checked that way anyway).
They were failures where the spark finds an easier path to ground than the tower, probably through the side of the coil to the metal shield.
This is yet another reason I do dynamic testing on live and operating components wherever possible.
Once no spark is confirmed.......If you have a dwell meter you can connect it to the coil primary negative terminal and crank the engine. If there is any reading at all, the ICM is working and the coil is bad.
They were failures where the spark finds an easier path to ground than the tower, probably through the side of the coil to the metal shield.
This is yet another reason I do dynamic testing on live and operating components wherever possible.
Once no spark is confirmed.......If you have a dwell meter you can connect it to the coil primary negative terminal and crank the engine. If there is any reading at all, the ICM is working and the coil is bad.
08-22-2017
#9
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 Re: started and ran fine, then just stalled and wont restart
Most of the coil failures I saw in 6th gen distributors were not winding failures, they would pass an ohm check (I rarely ever checked that way anyway).
They were failures where the spark finds an easier path to ground than the tower, probably through the side of the coil to the metal shield.
This is yet another reason I do dynamic testing on live and operating components wherever possible.
Once no spark is confirmed.......If you have a dwell meter you can connect it to the coil primary negative terminal and crank the engine. If there is any reading at all, the ICM is working and the coil is bad.
They were failures where the spark finds an easier path to ground than the tower, probably through the side of the coil to the metal shield.
This is yet another reason I do dynamic testing on live and operating components wherever possible.
Once no spark is confirmed.......If you have a dwell meter you can connect it to the coil primary negative terminal and crank the engine. If there is any reading at all, the ICM is working and the coil is bad.
Get this crap guys:
About a year ago I came out to this car after it sat over the weekend and the battery was completely DEAD. like 2volts at the terminals. bewildered, I went to wally world and bought a new battery. went to work and came home. (car sits 14hours) I could tell the new battery was weak but it started ok.... thinking maybe my 8 year old radio or amp may have failed I pulled those fuses to be safe. Nope, same thing next day. Somebody who knows about cars says its probably a diode in the alternator (after I ripped apart the thing looking for a short!!!) I discovered the current flow ceased when I removed the IG1 fuse in the engine bay (40 amps). so all winter I would have to pop the hood and pull the battery cable to preserve my new battery. Embarrassed as I had to do this at work sometimes in front of subordinates I picked up a new vehicle and left this guy sitting with the battery disconnected.
Fast forward to yesterday. Replacing the ignition coil appears to have also solved the battery drain. it was pulling 600mA just sitting there off. Now it pulls 4mA sitting there off.
SO I never thought that could be a thing but evidently the resistance to the secondary coil falling to 9Kohms made the car no longer run but I guess it had a short in there someplace which was also killing the battery, but allowing it to run normally (until 2 days ago) I wish I had taken a photo but the plastic side of the coil did have some discoloration (like it had gotten very hot)
I mean I guess it makes sense now that I think about it but golly I never though that would be it. Why would only the resistance of the coil be what was preventing current flow on a shut down vehicle?
Thank You for your help everybody.
08-22-2017
#10
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: started and ran fine, then just stalled and wont restart
I discovered the current flow ceased when I removed the IG1 fuse in the engine bay (40 amps).
Fast forward to yesterday. Replacing the ignition coil appears to have also solved the battery drain. it was pulling 600mA just sitting there off. Now it pulls 4mA sitting there off.
Why would only the resistance of the coil be what was preventing current flow on a shut down vehicle?
Fast forward to yesterday. Replacing the ignition coil appears to have also solved the battery drain. it was pulling 600mA just sitting there off. Now it pulls 4mA sitting there off.
Why would only the resistance of the coil be what was preventing current flow on a shut down vehicle?
You've described something more along the lines of a bad ignition switch....but some actual testing would be required to confirm it and that would have to happen WHILE the excessive draw is present (there are tools and techniques that make tracking this down a little easier but diagrams and understanding are necessary as well).
If you study a wiring diagram for power distribution that shows all the circuits that originate at the 40A IG1 fuse and follow that though the ignition switch, to all of the individual circuits and fuses that the ignition switch controls:
The 40A IG1 fuse provides power to the ignition switch.
The ignition switch controls 4 separate circuits.
The 4 circuits of the ignition switch provide power to about 16 other fuses.
The coil can't be powered up unless the ignition switch is turned on, so if your draw went away with the 40A fuse pulled then most likely the switch itself or something between the 40A fuse and the switch was (or sill is) the underlying problem. Any of the 4 branches of the switch could be involved in the problem....but I doubt it was the branch that feeds the ignition coil because you'd never get the engine to shut off LOL
HTH
Last edited by ezone; 08-22-2017 at 06:26 PM.
08-23-2017
#11
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 Re: started and ran fine, then just stalled and wont restart
No, the ignition coil cannot cause a battery drain.
You've described something more along the lines of a bad ignition switch....but some actual testing would be required to confirm it and that would have to happen WHILE the excessive draw is present (there are tools and techniques that make tracking this down a little easier but diagrams and understanding are necessary as well).
If you study a wiring diagram for power distribution that shows all the circuits that originate at the 40A IG1 fuse and follow that though the ignition switch, to all of the individual circuits and fuses that the ignition switch controls:
The 40A IG1 fuse provides power to the ignition switch.
The ignition switch controls 4 separate circuits.
The 4 circuits of the ignition switch provide power to about 16 other fuses.
The coil can't be powered up unless the ignition switch is turned on, so if your draw went away with the 40A fuse pulled then most likely the switch itself or something between the 40A fuse and the switch was (or sill is) the underlying problem. Any of the 4 branches of the switch could be involved in the problem....but I doubt it was the branch that feeds the ignition coil because you'd never get the engine to shut off LOL
HTH
You've described something more along the lines of a bad ignition switch....but some actual testing would be required to confirm it and that would have to happen WHILE the excessive draw is present (there are tools and techniques that make tracking this down a little easier but diagrams and understanding are necessary as well).
If you study a wiring diagram for power distribution that shows all the circuits that originate at the 40A IG1 fuse and follow that though the ignition switch, to all of the individual circuits and fuses that the ignition switch controls:
The 40A IG1 fuse provides power to the ignition switch.
The ignition switch controls 4 separate circuits.
The 4 circuits of the ignition switch provide power to about 16 other fuses.
The coil can't be powered up unless the ignition switch is turned on, so if your draw went away with the 40A fuse pulled then most likely the switch itself or something between the 40A fuse and the switch was (or sill is) the underlying problem. Any of the 4 branches of the switch could be involved in the problem....but I doubt it was the branch that feeds the ignition coil because you'd never get the engine to shut off LOL
HTH
I did that thing where you turn the key all the way then let is snap back, and it didn't do what the internet said a bad switch would do, so I ruled that out a while ago... and now I'm nervous I sold a car which will give somebody a problem
08-23-2017
#12
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: started and ran fine, then just stalled and wont restart
I did that thing where you turn the key all the way then let is snap back, and it didn't do what the internet said a bad switch would do,
If I diagnosed problems that way I'd starve to death.
09-02-2017
#13
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 Re: started and ran fine, then just stalled and wont restart
I mean, I agree, I just don't see how a bad coil could cause the drain.... so I'm baffled at how replacing the coil appears to (at least for now) solved it.
took final payment for the car today, she replaced the grinding axle and says she hasn't had any other concerns with it so hey, I hope it was some freak thing that somehow is ok now because I'm not the type to dump undisclosed issues on somebody.
I get the impression that if it konks out I'll be getting a call though... and I'm enough of a softie to try and help even 6 months later so... if you see me back with a similar issue you will know how it ends...
