Oil on plugs
08-08-2017
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Oil on plugs
Hey my car would crank but not start so i pulled out my plugs and there's oil on all of them. On the tips. The metal piece that arcs over the pointy tip. It looked wet so I rubbed it on my gloves and it was black smudge. Gotsta be oils right mates?
What are my troubleshooting steps to fix this?
What are my troubleshooting steps to fix this?
08-08-2017
#2
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Re: Oil on plugs
does the engine burn oil?
if the rings are gummed up and stuck, oil can get in the combustion chamber where it will be burned off, leaving some residue
or is it fuel from cranking the engine that's soaking into the soot and other byproducts from combustion?
If you flooded the engine from cranking it multiple times all the liquid fuel in the combustion chambers will need to evaporate.
If you hold the gas pedal all the way down while cranking (this disables the injectors) this will help push the fuel out.
Try cleaning the spark plugs with brake clean, let them dry out, reinstall and see what happens?
you could also buy new spark plugs, make sure you get the proper NGKs
You can verify if you're getting spark by having a plug in one of the wires and holding it next to the engine block, while someone cranks the engine.
if the rings are gummed up and stuck, oil can get in the combustion chamber where it will be burned off, leaving some residue
or is it fuel from cranking the engine that's soaking into the soot and other byproducts from combustion?
If you flooded the engine from cranking it multiple times all the liquid fuel in the combustion chambers will need to evaporate.
If you hold the gas pedal all the way down while cranking (this disables the injectors) this will help push the fuel out.
Try cleaning the spark plugs with brake clean, let them dry out, reinstall and see what happens?
you could also buy new spark plugs, make sure you get the proper NGKs
You can verify if you're getting spark by having a plug in one of the wires and holding it next to the engine block, while someone cranks the engine.
08-08-2017
#3
OF top 99.5% creator (Formerly of the Puffinblunts variety)
Re: Oil on plugs
Were you seeing any thick black or bluish smoke coming out of tail pipe before no start issue? If so, does it smell like oil or gas? Does the PCV valve rattle or is stuck?
08-09-2017
#4
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Oil on plugs
IF oil or any other liquid was sitting in the spark plug tubes, that liquid will coat the end of the spark plug AS YOU REMOVE IT.
Got pics?
What was the running condition at the moment the engine was turned off immediately before you removed your spark plugs?
Got pics?
What was the running condition at the moment the engine was turned off immediately before you removed your spark plugs?
08-09-2017
#5
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does the engine burn oil?
if the rings are gummed up and stuck, oil can get in the combustion chamber where it will be burned off, leaving some residue
or is it fuel from cranking the engine that's soaking into the soot and other byproducts from combustion?
If you flooded the engine from cranking it multiple times all the liquid fuel in the combustion chambers will need to evaporate.
If you hold the gas pedal all the way down while cranking (this disables the injectors) this will help push the fuel out.
Try cleaning the spark plugs with brake clean, let them dry out, reinstall and see what happens?
you could also buy new spark plugs, make sure you get the proper NGKs
You can verify if you're getting spark by having a plug in one of the wires and holding it next to the engine block, while someone cranks the engine.
if the rings are gummed up and stuck, oil can get in the combustion chamber where it will be burned off, leaving some residue
or is it fuel from cranking the engine that's soaking into the soot and other byproducts from combustion?
If you flooded the engine from cranking it multiple times all the liquid fuel in the combustion chambers will need to evaporate.
If you hold the gas pedal all the way down while cranking (this disables the injectors) this will help push the fuel out.
Try cleaning the spark plugs with brake clean, let them dry out, reinstall and see what happens?
you could also buy new spark plugs, make sure you get the proper NGKs
You can verify if you're getting spark by having a plug in one of the wires and holding it next to the engine block, while someone cranks the engine.
Before, my car would crank over, struggle for a bit on start-up, then idle normally after struggling.
I had a CEL, pulled code but forgot the code.
So I did a tune up-replaced plugs, dizzy cap+rotor (but not plug wires)
Now it just started to do this.
You think it's the aftermarket parts I bought? I should've gone OEM.
Pictures
http://imgur.com/a/exZNZ
ALSO
When I tried to crank engine over and left the keys in ignition, my engine compartment was making an electrical buzzing sound from around the engine block (I think behind the engine) I tried to record sound but my mic wouldn't pick it up.
Last edited by eager2learn; 08-09-2017 at 03:21 PM. Reason: forgot to add picture link
08-09-2017
#6
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Oil on plugs
Pictures
Did you ever check for spark before replacing any parts?
Will it throw a lightning bolt 10mm?
Plugs look brand new...Are those NGK V-Power?
User error? Installer error?
Plug wires in the wrong order around the dist cap? (Firing order is not 1-2-3-4)
Sounds like you've got it flooded.
Has this been an ongoing problem?
Was it hard to start only at certain temperatures?
Has it been low on power? (timing jumped a tooth leads to power loss, lower compression, and flooding)
Got a scanner? Got an ECT code?
Got a scanner with live data? IS the ECT reading accurately? During cranking? (a somewhat common cause of flooding or hard starts)
Does it still crank normally like "RuhRuhRuhRuhRuhRuh" (good compression).....or does it crank weak like "weeweeweeweeweewee" (very low compression)?
Have you cranked it so much that the battery has run down or gotten weak? Put a charger on it if necessary. Slow cranking speed contributes to flooding.
Normal deflood procedure is to hold the gas pedal flat on the floor during cranking, this is supposed to turn off the fuel injectors and give the cylinders a chance to clear out the raw gas, but it doesn't always work especially if the plugs are already wet and there are puddles of liquid gas on the pistons..
Remove plugs, disconnect the distributor or unplug the main relay (to kill spark), lay a towel over the open plug holes, crank engine a few seconds to hopefully blow any standing liquid out of the cylinders. (does not always work, there will be raw fuel left in there)
Compression test while plugs are out?
Remove plugs, dump a Tablespoonfull of clean engine oil down each sparkplug tube, then toss the towel over the tubes again and crank it several seconds to distribute that oil around the cylinders.
Reinstall plugs. reconnect main relay or distributor.
Cranking with the gas pedal down gets tricky when you have to try to control the fuel injection on or off, I might hold the pedal down until it tries to fire then let it up and see if it will run, then if it doesn't I mash the pedal again and keep cranking.
Don't crank continuously too long or you can overheat and ruin the starter...I usually say 15 seconds cranking at a time then let it rest and cool for a minute.
08-10-2017
#7
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thoughts, not really in order:
Did you ever check for spark before replacing any parts?
Will it throw a lightning bolt 10mm?
Plugs look brand new...Are those NGK V-Power?
User error? Installer error?
Plug wires in the wrong order around the dist cap? (Firing order is not 1-2-3-4)
Sounds like you've got it flooded.
Has this been an ongoing problem?
Was it hard to start only at certain temperatures?
Has it been low on power? (timing jumped a tooth leads to power loss, lower compression, and flooding)
Got a scanner? Got an ECT code?
Got a scanner with live data? IS the ECT reading accurately? During cranking? (a somewhat common cause of flooding or hard starts)
Does it still crank normally like "RuhRuhRuhRuhRuhRuh" (good compression).....or does it crank weak like "weeweeweeweeweewee" (very low compression)?
Have you cranked it so much that the battery has run down or gotten weak? Put a charger on it if necessary. Slow cranking speed contributes to flooding.
Normal deflood procedure is to hold the gas pedal flat on the floor during cranking, this is supposed to turn off the fuel injectors and give the cylinders a chance to clear out the raw gas, but it doesn't always work especially if the plugs are already wet and there are puddles of liquid gas on the pistons..
Remove plugs, disconnect the distributor or unplug the main relay (to kill spark), lay a towel over the open plug holes, crank engine a few seconds to hopefully blow any standing liquid out of the cylinders. (does not always work, there will be raw fuel left in there)
Compression test while plugs are out?
Remove plugs, dump a Tablespoonfull of clean engine oil down each sparkplug tube, then toss the towel over the tubes again and crank it several seconds to distribute that oil around the cylinders.
Reinstall plugs. reconnect main relay or distributor.
Cranking with the gas pedal down gets tricky when you have to try to control the fuel injection on or off, I might hold the pedal down until it tries to fire then let it up and see if it will run, then if it doesn't I mash the pedal again and keep cranking.
Don't crank continuously too long or you can overheat and ruin the starter...I usually say 15 seconds cranking at a time then let it rest and cool for a minute.
Did you ever check for spark before replacing any parts?
Will it throw a lightning bolt 10mm?
Plugs look brand new...Are those NGK V-Power?
User error? Installer error?
Plug wires in the wrong order around the dist cap? (Firing order is not 1-2-3-4)
Sounds like you've got it flooded.
Has this been an ongoing problem?
Was it hard to start only at certain temperatures?
Has it been low on power? (timing jumped a tooth leads to power loss, lower compression, and flooding)
Got a scanner? Got an ECT code?
Got a scanner with live data? IS the ECT reading accurately? During cranking? (a somewhat common cause of flooding or hard starts)
Does it still crank normally like "RuhRuhRuhRuhRuhRuh" (good compression).....or does it crank weak like "weeweeweeweeweewee" (very low compression)?
Have you cranked it so much that the battery has run down or gotten weak? Put a charger on it if necessary. Slow cranking speed contributes to flooding.
Normal deflood procedure is to hold the gas pedal flat on the floor during cranking, this is supposed to turn off the fuel injectors and give the cylinders a chance to clear out the raw gas, but it doesn't always work especially if the plugs are already wet and there are puddles of liquid gas on the pistons..
Remove plugs, disconnect the distributor or unplug the main relay (to kill spark), lay a towel over the open plug holes, crank engine a few seconds to hopefully blow any standing liquid out of the cylinders. (does not always work, there will be raw fuel left in there)
Compression test while plugs are out?
Remove plugs, dump a Tablespoonfull of clean engine oil down each sparkplug tube, then toss the towel over the tubes again and crank it several seconds to distribute that oil around the cylinders.
Reinstall plugs. reconnect main relay or distributor.
Cranking with the gas pedal down gets tricky when you have to try to control the fuel injection on or off, I might hold the pedal down until it tries to fire then let it up and see if it will run, then if it doesn't I mash the pedal again and keep cranking.
Don't crank continuously too long or you can overheat and ruin the starter...I usually say 15 seconds cranking at a time then let it rest and cool for a minute.
yeah those are new plugs V-Power NGK. I have no idea what "throw a lightning bolt 10mm" means. Plugs are in correct order. Compression is normal. I did your deflood procedure and I got nothing.
I did this guys procedure...I skipped the fuel injectors and checking the plugs for sparks and went directly to testing my spark coil and igniter.
The coil had no spark but the igniter terminals positve and negative lit up my test light attached to negative terminal of battery...
should I replace coil or the whole dizzy
08-10-2017
#8
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Oil on plugs
I have no idea what "throw a lightning bolt 10mm" means.
Most people check spark by seeing if it will jump the gap on a spark plug, but just jumping the 1mm gap on a spark plug by itself does not tell you if the coil and the rest of the system can supply the full 30kV that is supposed to be available from a working coil.
Plugs are in correct order.
The coil had no spark
If it makes absolutely zero spark, more checking is needed.
but the igniter terminals positve and negative lit up my test light attached to negative terminal of battery...
Connect test light to battery positive post
and probe the small negative wire on the coil
and have someone crank the engine over.....test light should flash very very short and very very dim (some test lights won't flash at all depending on the bulb)....A dwell meter would be better to test with if you have one available
08-11-2017
#9
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A good coil will be able to emit a spark that will jump at least 10mm through thin air to a ground.
Most people check spark by seeing if it will jump the gap on a spark plug, but just jumping the 1mm gap on a spark plug by itself does not tell you if the coil and the rest of the system can supply the full 30kV that is supposed to be available from a working coil.
Plug WIRES in correct order around the cap?
Sometimes a bad coil will still be able to make the tiniest bit of spark, like only 1/8" long or even shorter. If it makes any spark at all, the igniter is still doing its job and the coil is bad.
If it makes absolutely zero spark, more checking is needed.
If you are checking the coil connections but you are not cranking the engine then both will show positive with the key on.
Connect test light to battery positive post
and probe the small negative wire on the coil
and have someone crank the engine over.....test light should flash very very short and very very dim (some test lights won't flash at all depending on the bulb)....A dwell meter would be better to test with if you have one available
Most people check spark by seeing if it will jump the gap on a spark plug, but just jumping the 1mm gap on a spark plug by itself does not tell you if the coil and the rest of the system can supply the full 30kV that is supposed to be available from a working coil.
Plug WIRES in correct order around the cap?
Sometimes a bad coil will still be able to make the tiniest bit of spark, like only 1/8" long or even shorter. If it makes any spark at all, the igniter is still doing its job and the coil is bad.
If it makes absolutely zero spark, more checking is needed.
If you are checking the coil connections but you are not cranking the engine then both will show positive with the key on.
Connect test light to battery positive post
and probe the small negative wire on the coil
and have someone crank the engine over.....test light should flash very very short and very very dim (some test lights won't flash at all depending on the bulb)....A dwell meter would be better to test with if you have one available
08-11-2017
#10
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http://imgur.com/a/3eNdp
which node do i put my clamps on if i want to crank my starter via battery terminal
which node do i put my clamps on if i want to crank my starter via battery terminal
08-11-2017
#11
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Oil on plugs
Dynamic testing is far more accurate. That means doing tests LIVE, in action, connected and powered up and trying to operate. (Working knowledge is necessary though)
I know I mentioned checking "dwell" on the coil, that's the same check one would use when setting ignition/distributor points gap on an ancient car....but IF your meter does not have dwell, see if it has a setting for pulse width (ms) or duty cycle, either of those settings might get you usable test figures.
HOWEVER if the screws are stripped and you can't deal with it....may as well buy a distributor.
BEWARE: Aftermarket distributors are crap.
http://imgur.com/a/3eNdp
which node do i put my clamps on if i want to crank my starter via battery terminal
which node do i put my clamps on if i want to crank my starter via battery terminal
Of course observe all standard safety precautions such as make sure the trans is not in gear, block the tires and pull the hand brake so the car cannot move, keep loose clothing, necktie and long hair out of moving parts, and count all of your fingers before leaving the work area just to make sure you didn't lose any.
08-11-2017
#13
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Oil on plugs
I was hoping I could just replace the
Junkyard distributor possible for test parts? (and the wires from ICM to coil)
coil/ignition control module
If you can connect your meter and get a dwell reading (or make the test light flash) during cranking, the igniter is still doing its job.
08-13-2017
#14
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I thought you said you couldn't take it apart.
Junkyard distributor possible for test parts? (and the wires from ICM to coil) Does it need only one of those items? The other? Both?
If you can connect your meter and get a dwell reading (or make the test light flash) during cranking, the igniter is still doing its job.
Junkyard distributor possible for test parts? (and the wires from ICM to coil) Does it need only one of those items? The other? Both?
If you can connect your meter and get a dwell reading (or make the test light flash) during cranking, the igniter is still doing its job.
I connnected my test light to battery positive and probed the +/- terminals of the coil...
The positive and negative terminals flashed...
I disconnected the negative terminal clip from the igniter and retested same method
The test light still flashed on the coil....
I put test light to ground...
The terminals on the coil did not light up at all
I put the test light to battery positive and tested the negative terminal on the ignitier...
no flash...
Is it my ignitier?
I'll just buy both...(can't afford $400 oem dizzy)
Last edited by eager2learn; 08-13-2017 at 02:26 PM.
08-13-2017
#16
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Oil on plugs
Post #7: Post #14: #7 was correct, now #14 exact same check has gone to hell right here. Recheck. What happened?
Nothing will work if the coil doesn't get its 12v
Figure that out BEFORE continuing below!
Maybe....Like I said, some test lights won't be able to show a flash because the trigger signal is extremely brief, and some bulbs are 'bigger' than others.
test light should flash very very short and very very dim (some test lights won't flash at all depending on the bulb)....A dwell meter would be better to test with if you have one available
Also, if it's the first fail of original equipment parts, the coil usually craps before the igniter.
The coil had no spark but the igniter terminals positve and negative lit up my test light attached to negative terminal of battery...
I put test light to ground...
The terminals on the coil did not light up at all
The terminals on the coil did not light up at all
Nothing will work if the coil doesn't get its 12v
Figure that out BEFORE continuing below!
I put the test light to battery positive and tested the negative terminal on the ignitier...
no flash...
Is it my ignitier?
no flash...
Is it my ignitier?
test light should flash very very short and very very dim (some test lights won't flash at all depending on the bulb)....A dwell meter would be better to test with if you have one available
Also, if it's the first fail of original equipment parts, the coil usually craps before the igniter.
08-13-2017
#17
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Oil on plugs
Word: https://www.howacarworks.com/ignitio...he-dwell-angle
The ignition coil hasn't changed much in a century and it still operates basically the same as it always has. It's a just high voltage transformer.
The negative side of the ignition coil is pulsed on and off to generate spark.
We called that the "points closed signal", which meant while the contacts of the ignition points set are closed it's supplying ground to the coil.
Points used to do that job (google 'points and condenser' if you need to), now it's done electronically.
Back in the olden days you could check/set points gap (they were adjustable) by checking dwell and adjusting the points to attain the desired dwell reading.
The main thing different here is your ignition coil is now controlled electronically instead of by mechanical points. The meter is still used to check if there is a "points closed signal" coming from the switching transistor in the ICM.
08-13-2017
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Wow that broke my head...
Why does a dwell meter look like a multimeter...so what I'm getting at is I clamp a terminal onto the negative side of the coil with a dwell meter and get a reading which will tell me if the coil is bad or the igniter is bad.
Why does a dwell meter look like a multimeter...so what I'm getting at is I clamp a terminal onto the negative side of the coil with a dwell meter and get a reading which will tell me if the coil is bad or the igniter is bad.
08-13-2017
#19
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Oil on plugs
What did you find out about this:
#7 was correct, now #14 exact same check has gone to hell right here. Recheck. What happened?
Nothing will work if the coil doesn't get its 12v
??
What do you WANT one to look like?
I have dwellmeters in both analog and digital versions, and I believe my dad still has an analog unit from the 50s or 60s in his garage. Do the analog units still work? IDK, they probably haven't been used in decades. My digital unit is just another function on a cheap 20+ year old Sears multimeter, but it does the job.
Didn't I ask if your meter has a couple other functions that might be used instead of dwell?
The meter can't hand you an answer, it only produces a numerical value. The rest must be deduced.
#7 was correct, now #14 exact same check has gone to hell right here. Recheck. What happened?
Nothing will work if the coil doesn't get its 12v
??
Why does a dwell meter look like a multimeter..
I have dwellmeters in both analog and digital versions, and I believe my dad still has an analog unit from the 50s or 60s in his garage. Do the analog units still work? IDK, they probably haven't been used in decades. My digital unit is just another function on a cheap 20+ year old Sears multimeter, but it does the job.
Didn't I ask if your meter has a couple other functions that might be used instead of dwell?
which will tell me if the coil is bad or the igniter is bad.
08-14-2017
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What did you find out about this:
#7 was correct, now #14 exact same check has gone to hell right here. Recheck. What happened?
Nothing will work if the coil doesn't get its 12v
??
What do you WANT one to look like?
I have dwellmeters in both analog and digital versions, and I believe my dad still has an analog unit from the 50s or 60s in his garage. Do the analog units still work? IDK, they probably haven't been used in decades. My digital unit is just another function on a cheap 20+ year old Sears multimeter, but it does the job.
Didn't I ask if your meter has a couple other functions that might be used instead of dwell?
The meter can't hand you an answer, it only produces a numerical value. The rest must be deduced.
#7 was correct, now #14 exact same check has gone to hell right here. Recheck. What happened?
Nothing will work if the coil doesn't get its 12v
??
What do you WANT one to look like?
I have dwellmeters in both analog and digital versions, and I believe my dad still has an analog unit from the 50s or 60s in his garage. Do the analog units still work? IDK, they probably haven't been used in decades. My digital unit is just another function on a cheap 20+ year old Sears multimeter, but it does the job.
Didn't I ask if your meter has a couple other functions that might be used instead of dwell?
The meter can't hand you an answer, it only produces a numerical value. The rest must be deduced.
08-14-2017
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08-14-2017
#23
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Oil on plugs
but im confused as F$*#
The process of diagnosing the stuff in the distributor isn't all that much different.
You might go get just a coil first and install it, see if you get spark again and it runs. If no spark then go for the igniter.
08-15-2017
#24
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If you have a relatively new light bulb that doesn't work, but you don't have a replacement bulb handy to try out, wouldn't it make sense for you to use your voltmeter to check the socket for power and ground just to make sure it's really a bad bulb before making another trip to the store?
08-15-2017
#25
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Oil on plugs
Now I understand it's a setting on the multi-meter....lol...I thought it was another seperate tool by itself.
A dwell meter and a timing light went together, set up the points in the distributor first then check ignition timing.
These days one would probably buy a multimeter specifically for automotive use to get a dwell function included on it.
"Dwell angle is a measure of the duration of time that the primary circuit of the ignition system is closed to energize the primary windings of the coil. It expressed (and measured) in degrees of rotation of the distributor rotor, hence the use of the term "angle""
08-16-2017
#26
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Rep Power: 0 Wires/screws for ignition coil
I bought a ignition coil but it didn't come with screws or wires...
I can probably find the wires and terminals at home depot...but the screws...do you they have to be special heat resistance, electric resistant screws or can I use any ol screw in the screw aisle?
I can probably find the wires and terminals at home depot...but the screws...do you they have to be special heat resistance, electric resistant screws or can I use any ol screw in the screw aisle?
08-16-2017
#28
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Oil on plugs
You probably wouldn't ever need that setting unless something like trying to figure out this problem comes along again.
Anymore, I probably only use mine once or twice a year since cars that old rarely show up at our dealership.
Anymore, I probably only use mine once or twice a year since cars that old rarely show up at our dealership.
