Rep Power: 210

1998 Civic EX d16y8 stock , AT, 148K miles. Purchased 6 months ago.

Overheating (leaking hose under distributor) lead to blown head gasket (confirmed with leak tester, coolant loss), warped head, stripped head-bolt (#3 in torque sequence, Fixed with Heli-coil)) and a pain in my ***. During tear-down when I removed the cylinder head there was about an inch of coolant in cylinders 2 & 3. I wet vacuumed the coolant out and wiped the cylinders dry. Cylinder 1 & 4 are at TDC, Is there concern that coolant may be under the pistons seeping past the compression and oil rings? If so, will it get pushed out once (hopefully) the engine is running again?

 
Rep Power: 518

Liquids can always seep past the rings. It will get blown down into the crankcase once it runs again, if there is anything left.

Did you not drain coolant from the engine block before yanking the head off? If not then there will be lots of antifreeze in the oil already

You planned to change the oil when you get it back together as part of the head gasket work, right?

I'd drain and fill just the oil before running it. No filter yet.
Run it.
After it's been running a while in the garage, warmed up, burped, adjusted, smoke from spilled oil has burned off, and you are satisfied it's going to be ok --- Change the oil and filter.

Drive it. Not hard, but calm and normal.
Change oil and filter again in a short while after its back on the road like 20-50 miles.

Oil and filter are cheap. Engines aren't.

HTH

 
Rep Power: 210

Thanks Ezone.

I drained the oil and drained the coolant out through the radiator stopcock before I started breaking it down, I didn't realize there was a coolant drain-bolt for the block until after the head was off. As soon as the head was off I wet vacuumed both the 2 and 3 cylinders (at BDC) and vacuumed out the coolant outside of the cylinder walls. What I didn't do is manually turn the crankshaft to see if there was coolant in cylinder 1 & 4 because I was afraid to take it out of TDC (my first head gasket repair).
I bolted the head on yesterday but, nothing else yet since,

There was also slight surface rust on cylinders walls of 2 & 3 due to delay of receiving gaskets, valve seals and machine shop time.. all together about 7 days. Not sure why they rusted as I oiled the cylinder walls, stuffed lint free rags and put a plastic garbage bag + lint free rags over the entire block during those seven days. I cleaned off the surface rust using 3M zero ought scotchbrite pads and wd-40..they feel very smooth now,.I vacuumed out the cylinders and wiped them down after using the scotchbrite pads. Since I used scotchbrite pads I already planned to do an oil drain and coolant drain scenario similar to what you mentioned. There was no coolant mixed in the oil before tear-down, no milky or discolored appearance.

I will remove the engine coolant drain bolt today. Should I pull the head off again and clean out possible coolant and rust from cylinders 1 and 4 before I go any further?

 
Rep Power: 518

There would have been no problem with turning the crank as there were no valves to be bent while the head was off. Just spin it back to the TDC mark and all is well.

But you would not find anything in 1 or 4.

As long as it wasn't there long enough to deeply pit the surfaces, I'd just wipe a fingerfull of clean oil across the rust, wipe it out with a shop towel, and put it together.

Nope, there is none to worry about.




Coolant IS in the oil pan, no matter what you may think.

The same splash that got it in the middle cylinders when you lifted the head also got it into the oil drainback holes to the crankcase.

Oil cannot mix with antifreeze without heat and agitation, therefore you cannot see any chocolate milkshake right now. It takes a lot to make a milkshake. Trace amounts of antifreeze may never be seen visually as discoloration in the oil, but can still cause damage to bearings.

The shape of the oil pan and height of the drainplug hole may not allow complete draining of fluid from the pan. Most are this way.

THIS is why you need to change oil more than once.
Get it to mix up so it can come out.




The fine abrasive grit can destroy engine bearings in a hurry.
Seen it happen more than you want to know.

 
Rep Power: 210

Thanks again for replying Ezone. Sorry in advance for bold typing, I am not shouting..just not good with multi-quoting.

There would have been no problem with turning the crank as there were no valves to be bent while the head was off. Just spin it back to the TDC mark and all is well.

Yes... I noobed it on that one. I was thinking at the time that the compression from the cylinder at TDC would push the coolant out so why risk taking out of TDC..stupid I know.

But you would not find anything in 1 or 4.

That's good to hear

As long as it wasn't there long enough to deeply pit the surfaces, I'd just wipe a fingerfull of clean oil across the rust, wipe it out with a shop towel, and put it together.

Nope, there is none to worry about.

Also good to hear.. I did oil the cylinder walls just before putting the head on.

Coolant IS in the oil pan, no matter what you may think.
The same splash that got it in the middle cylinders when you lifted the head also got it into the oil drainback holes to the crankcase.

Oil cannot mix with antifreeze without heat and agitation, therefore you cannot see any chocolate milkshake right now. It takes a lot to make a milkshake. Trace amounts of antifreeze may never be seen visually as discoloration in the oil, but can still cause damage to bearings. The shape of the oil pan and height of the drainplug hole may not allow complete draining of fluid from the pan. Most are this way.
THIS is why you need to change oil more than once. Get it to mix up so it can come out.

I have an oil pan gasket on hand..wouldn't be much trouble (while car is currently on jackstands) to take it off, drain, clean it, replace it. Should I do that now or pour in some new oil first with drain plug out and then pull the oil pan?

The fine abrasive grit can destroy engine bearings in a hurry.
Seen it happen more than you want to know.

I put a small cloth on top of the piston heads to catch any shavings, vacuumed it out, wiped it out with acetone and plan to follow your oil change suggestions. Also plan to take it a step further and do a 100 mile oil change and 500 mile change. Any other suggestions?

 
Rep Power: 518

Oooh, if you already planned on pulling the pan that makes it simpler.

If the head went to the machine shop, hopefully they would have cleaned it good enough to bolt on and run without further additional cleaning.

The only thing left would be to wash out the oil return holes through the block, and I'd think a quart or so of oil would accomplish that.
Leave the valve cover off, find the individual holes, pour oil through them.
Then pull the oil pan off and do whatever you want with it.


Did you suck all the liquid out of the bolt holes in the block before you bolted the head down? (assuming it's already torqued down)
If there is any liquid trapped under the head bolts you can hydraulically fracture the block casting.


HTH

 
Rep Power: 210

Oooh, if you already planned on pulling the pan that makes it simpler. If the head went to the machine shop, hopefully they would have cleaned it good enough to bolt on and run without further additional cleaning.

Machine shop did resurface, pressure test, crack inspection, lapping, valve seals (I supplied),cleaning/refinishing. Replaced camshaft gasket and set cams TDC mark to match valves position (back to same position as I brought to him) for $200. There's tiny bits of intake gasket left that i tried to lightly razor off..but aren't budging so I'm calling good enough. Cylinder head's block mating surface totally clean.

The only thing left would be to wash out the oil return holes through the block, and I'd think a quart or so of oil would accomplish that.
Leave the valve cover off, find the individual holes, pour oil through them.
Then pull the oil pan off and do whatever you want with it.

Will do.

Did you suck all the liquid out of the bolt holes in the block before you bolted the head down? (assuming it's already torqued down)
If there is any liquid trapped under the head bolts you can hydraulically fracture the block casting.

Again something I am just now learning but, yes I took my time to vacuum out the head bolt holes and then clean them out with air. I want to get the threads as debris free as possible and couldn't find a thread chaser long enough. I had to helicoil hole number 3 (torque sequence) as it was stripped when I removed the bolt. Torqued down fine and seems to be straight so I am hoping for the best. I think if I knew ahead of times the possible perils of this repair I might have enlisted professional local mechanic..lol.

 
Rep Power: 210

Are the oil return passages/galleys on the intake side or exhaust side in corners?
Can't find labeled diagrams on line.

 
Rep Power: 518

Oil returns are the only holes that go all the way through. Pour oil on top of the head and see where the oil goes.

Block pic:






Intake side, the large rectangle-ish ports between cyls 1+2 and 3+4
Exhaust side, the large oblong ports in the outer corners.
Same places in the head.

 
Rep Power: 210

Thanks Ezone.. Should get the pan off today. Putting exhaust manifold on now. Another set back: knock sensor came apart (maybe intake hit it during disassemble) Ebay sells them cheap but they're probably crap: Isumo brand. OEM is $150, ) OE is $110 and went to two junk yards to day with no luck. Might find one on craigslist somehow.

 
Rep Power: 210

I decided not to remove the oil pan but, the car is on jack-stands and should help the pan drain better. Poured new oil over cam assembly and used funnel to directly poor into the oil returns. Exhaust, Vtec solenoid, ECT, and other parts attached to head now.

Wednesday I plan to slip the timing belt (still tensioned) back on and I have been advised that I should take off the crank pulley off to make sure all timing marks are aligned rather than simply slipping the belt on, valve lash then and starting it up. I will most likely post some pics here to make sure the alignment marks are set. I know this would be a good time to replace the water pump, timing, accessory belts and tensioner ..but I don't want to dump anymore money into it until I know it will run correctly post headgasket placement.