Desperately need help- Just replaced clutch, car won't go into 1st or 2nd
12-07-2013
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Desperately need help- Just replaced clutch, car won't go into 1st or 2nd
Title says it all, guys... I'm in trouble if I can't figure this out haha. I'm a college student and don't have a lot of spare money, so I try to do all repairs myself even though I don't have a lot of real mechanical know-how.
I just replaced the clutch (pressure plate, clutch disk, throw-out bearing, pilot bearing) and that all went pretty well. Followed a guide online to the tee, put it all back together and took it for a test drive and it ran GREAT. The clutch pedal felt totally different, like night and day and it was way more responsive. I took it around the block, went through every gear, and it all seemed fine. I pulled into my grandma's driveway and parked it for 20 minutes, and then went to leave. Lo and behold, to my utter dismay, I couldn't get it to go into 1st or 2nd gear. The shifter will go to the left, but it's like there is something physically blocking it from going forwards or backwards. 3rd, 4th, 5th work great, R is a little hard to get in but it's still okay.
First thing I did was bleed the clutch fluid line to make sure there were no air bubbles, but that didn't help anything.
My second thought was that it had something to do with a problem I had changing the clutch. I had a bit of trouble freeing the clutch control rod (the rod that comes down from the shifter, and goes forward along the exhaust to where it goes into the tranny, I think that's what it's called). There's a little pin that I had to pound out using like a 5/16th punch and a hammer. Getting that pin in was a b****, and I'm worried that I bent something while pounding it?
I laid on my back (in the freezing cold rain) and watched as my buddy ran it through the gears, the rod would twist counterclockwise when he pushed the shifter left, but it wouldn't go in or out when he tried to shift. This happens weather the car is on or off or the clutch pedal is in or out.
I'm out of ideas and I don't know anything about how the shifter actually changes the gears in the tranny. I'm 99 percent sure I put everything back together correctly, but even if I didn't I can't think of how anything I actually moved around today could make it so that it wouldn't go in gear. I should be able to run it through the gears even if the clutch is completely broken if the vehicle is off, right?
Any ideas are really appreciated, this car is my only way to work and school.
I'll be available to answer any questions :-)
I just replaced the clutch (pressure plate, clutch disk, throw-out bearing, pilot bearing) and that all went pretty well. Followed a guide online to the tee, put it all back together and took it for a test drive and it ran GREAT. The clutch pedal felt totally different, like night and day and it was way more responsive. I took it around the block, went through every gear, and it all seemed fine. I pulled into my grandma's driveway and parked it for 20 minutes, and then went to leave. Lo and behold, to my utter dismay, I couldn't get it to go into 1st or 2nd gear. The shifter will go to the left, but it's like there is something physically blocking it from going forwards or backwards. 3rd, 4th, 5th work great, R is a little hard to get in but it's still okay.
First thing I did was bleed the clutch fluid line to make sure there were no air bubbles, but that didn't help anything.
My second thought was that it had something to do with a problem I had changing the clutch. I had a bit of trouble freeing the clutch control rod (the rod that comes down from the shifter, and goes forward along the exhaust to where it goes into the tranny, I think that's what it's called). There's a little pin that I had to pound out using like a 5/16th punch and a hammer. Getting that pin in was a b****, and I'm worried that I bent something while pounding it?
I laid on my back (in the freezing cold rain) and watched as my buddy ran it through the gears, the rod would twist counterclockwise when he pushed the shifter left, but it wouldn't go in or out when he tried to shift. This happens weather the car is on or off or the clutch pedal is in or out.
I'm out of ideas and I don't know anything about how the shifter actually changes the gears in the tranny. I'm 99 percent sure I put everything back together correctly, but even if I didn't I can't think of how anything I actually moved around today could make it so that it wouldn't go in gear. I should be able to run it through the gears even if the clutch is completely broken if the vehicle is off, right?
Any ideas are really appreciated, this car is my only way to work and school.
I'll be available to answer any questions :-)
12-07-2013
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Okay, I've made some progress guys but if anyone reads this, I could still really use a couple answers.
When I was refilling the MTF, trying to locate the fill plug in the dark, rainy cold, I unscrewed a bolt that had a weird spring attached to the back end of it. And I may have forgotten to put it back on before my "test drive." I know, I know, really stupid mistake.
After hours of reading and searching today I realized that what I had unscrewed was the detent bolt and spring, and that in the process of what I did I most likely dislodged the ball bearing and knocked it into the transmission. From what I understand, that device is what holds the selector rod (for first and second gear?) in place, and that without it I wouldn't be able to shift. Seems to fit according to my limited understanding.
Now, my question for you fine gentlemen is if any of you know weather I will be able to get the ball out by draining the MTF. I'm hoping I'll just be able to pull the drain plug and it will gloop right out with all the fluid, but I realize there is a magnet in the bell housing that it may have stuck to. Is that a possiblility?
If I do get the ball out, should I be able to just stick it to the end of the spring and drop it in? I don't really understand how the whole detent ball/ selector rod business works. If I drop the ball in, what's to keep it from just rolling away from where I want it?
A second option, if I can't get the ball out would be to head to Autozone and try to get a new one, and just drop it in. That would leave the original ball in the tranny, and I don't know if that would cause problems. If anyone who is more familiar with how these things work could give me a heads up about that, I'd be really grateful.
If neither of those things would work, I guess my only other option is to drop the tranny again and pull it apart looking for that ball, right? If I do so, I figure I might as well clean the sucker out really well..
I'm just really hoping someone will know a little bit more about this and will be able the save me the hassle of taking it all apart and putting it all back together again. I feel like losing that stupid little ball has to be something that's happened before, so maybe someone can help me learn from their bad experience XD
Thanks!
When I was refilling the MTF, trying to locate the fill plug in the dark, rainy cold, I unscrewed a bolt that had a weird spring attached to the back end of it. And I may have forgotten to put it back on before my "test drive." I know, I know, really stupid mistake.
After hours of reading and searching today I realized that what I had unscrewed was the detent bolt and spring, and that in the process of what I did I most likely dislodged the ball bearing and knocked it into the transmission. From what I understand, that device is what holds the selector rod (for first and second gear?) in place, and that without it I wouldn't be able to shift. Seems to fit according to my limited understanding.
Now, my question for you fine gentlemen is if any of you know weather I will be able to get the ball out by draining the MTF. I'm hoping I'll just be able to pull the drain plug and it will gloop right out with all the fluid, but I realize there is a magnet in the bell housing that it may have stuck to. Is that a possiblility?
If I do get the ball out, should I be able to just stick it to the end of the spring and drop it in? I don't really understand how the whole detent ball/ selector rod business works. If I drop the ball in, what's to keep it from just rolling away from where I want it?
A second option, if I can't get the ball out would be to head to Autozone and try to get a new one, and just drop it in. That would leave the original ball in the tranny, and I don't know if that would cause problems. If anyone who is more familiar with how these things work could give me a heads up about that, I'd be really grateful.
If neither of those things would work, I guess my only other option is to drop the tranny again and pull it apart looking for that ball, right? If I do so, I figure I might as well clean the sucker out really well..
I'm just really hoping someone will know a little bit more about this and will be able the save me the hassle of taking it all apart and putting it all back together again. I feel like losing that stupid little ball has to be something that's happened before, so maybe someone can help me learn from their bad experience XD
Thanks!
12-07-2013
#3
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Desperately need help- Just replaced clutch, car won't go into 1st or 2nd
I looked at this post earlier and couldn't come up with anything normal to cause your complaint........
Then you posted the rest of the story.
If the wheels are off the ground, yes.
That's bad, very bad. But the ball can't drop inside, it would have gone to the outside. Probably during or after the first couple of shifts.
If you stuck the spring back in without the detent ball, you could be mutilating the spring as you try to force the shift rods to move. (That would certainly explain why it wouldn't shift those 2 gears.)
I'd pull it back out and look (leave shifter in neutral).
Close. The detent mechanisms are what gives the notchy feel as you change gears, and they also keep the shift rods from moving when they aren't supposed to move.
If there weren't any detents, there wouldn't be much of any "feel", and the selector shafts could move on their own while driving, causing serious problems if they moved far enough to let gear teeth "crash".
The ball is not inside the trans.
*reads rest of post*
This detent was on TOP of the trans? Look around, the ball might still be nearby.
IMO: Your best hope is that the spring is not mutilated when you remove it, and you can again move the shifter to 1st and 2nd gears once you have the spring out.
If this is the case, order the correct detent ball and spring from a Honda dealer and drop them in and see if it all works properly again.
The steel ball itself is probably a standard 5/16" ball bearing, but it is only 80 cents.
Spring and ball from a dealer shouldn't be more than $3.50 USD. Most dealers can get parts overnight.
EDIT: Make sure the washer is under the head of the bolt when you reassemble it. If the washer is missing, it might bind against the selector rod.
If you remove it and find the spring is mutilated and the shifter still doesn't move, then you are probably looking at a trans teardown to figure out where it is and what is damaged, or just chucking another trans in it.
HTH
But it never rains there!
Then you posted the rest of the story.
I should be able to run it through the gears even if the clutch is completely broken if the vehicle is off, right?
I unscrewed a bolt that had a weird spring attached to the back end of it. And I may have forgotten to put it back on before my "test drive." I know, I know, really stupid mistake.
After hours of reading and searching today I realized that what I had unscrewed was the detent bolt and spring, and that in the process of what I did I most likely dislodged the ball bearing and knocked it into the transmission.
After hours of reading and searching today I realized that what I had unscrewed was the detent bolt and spring, and that in the process of what I did I most likely dislodged the ball bearing and knocked it into the transmission.
If you stuck the spring back in without the detent ball, you could be mutilating the spring as you try to force the shift rods to move. (That would certainly explain why it wouldn't shift those 2 gears.)
I'd pull it back out and look (leave shifter in neutral).
From what I understand, that device is what holds the selector rod (for first and second gear?) in place, and that without it I wouldn't be able to shift.
If there weren't any detents, there wouldn't be much of any "feel", and the selector shafts could move on their own while driving, causing serious problems if they moved far enough to let gear teeth "crash".
Now, my question for you fine gentlemen is if any of you know weather I will be able to get the ball out by draining the MTF.
*reads rest of post*
This detent was on TOP of the trans? Look around, the ball might still be nearby.
IMO: Your best hope is that the spring is not mutilated when you remove it, and you can again move the shifter to 1st and 2nd gears once you have the spring out.
If this is the case, order the correct detent ball and spring from a Honda dealer and drop them in and see if it all works properly again.
The steel ball itself is probably a standard 5/16" ball bearing, but it is only 80 cents.
Spring and ball from a dealer shouldn't be more than $3.50 USD. Most dealers can get parts overnight.
EDIT: Make sure the washer is under the head of the bolt when you reassemble it. If the washer is missing, it might bind against the selector rod.
If you remove it and find the spring is mutilated and the shifter still doesn't move, then you are probably looking at a trans teardown to figure out where it is and what is damaged, or just chucking another trans in it.
HTH
(in the freezing cold rain)
Last edited by ezone; 12-07-2013 at 01:06 PM. Reason: because I can
12-07-2013
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I looked at this post earlier and couldn't come up with anything normal to cause your complaint........
Then you posted the rest of the story.
If the wheels are off the ground, yes.
That's bad, very bad. But the ball can't drop inside, it would have gone to the outside. Probably during or after the first couple of shifts.
If you stuck the spring back in without the detent ball, you could be mutilating the spring as you try to force the shift rods to move. (That would certainly explain why it wouldn't shift those 2 gears.)
I'd pull it back out and look (leave shifter in neutral).
Close. The detent mechanisms are what gives the notchy feel as you change gears, and they also keep the shift rods from moving when they aren't supposed to move.
If there weren't any detents, there wouldn't be much of any "feel", and the selector shafts could move on their own while driving, causing serious problems if they moved far enough to let gear teeth "crash".
The ball is not inside the trans.
*reads rest of post*
This detent was on TOP of the trans? Look around, the ball might still be nearby.
IMO: Your best hope is that the spring is not mutilated when you remove it, and you can again move the shifter to 1st and 2nd gears once you have the spring out.
If this is the case, order the correct detent ball and spring from a Honda dealer and drop them in and see if it all works properly again.
The steel ball itself is probably a standard 5/16" ball bearing, but it is only 80 cents.
Spring and ball from a dealer shouldn't be more than $3.50 USD. Most dealers can get parts overnight.
EDIT: Make sure the washer is under the head of the bolt when you reassemble it. If the washer is missing, it might bind against the selector rod.
If you remove it and find the spring is mutilated and the shifter still doesn't move, then you are probably looking at a trans teardown to figure out where it is and what is damaged, or just chucking another trans in it.
HTH
But it never rains there!
Then you posted the rest of the story.
If the wheels are off the ground, yes.
That's bad, very bad. But the ball can't drop inside, it would have gone to the outside. Probably during or after the first couple of shifts.
If you stuck the spring back in without the detent ball, you could be mutilating the spring as you try to force the shift rods to move. (That would certainly explain why it wouldn't shift those 2 gears.)
I'd pull it back out and look (leave shifter in neutral).
Close. The detent mechanisms are what gives the notchy feel as you change gears, and they also keep the shift rods from moving when they aren't supposed to move.
If there weren't any detents, there wouldn't be much of any "feel", and the selector shafts could move on their own while driving, causing serious problems if they moved far enough to let gear teeth "crash".
The ball is not inside the trans.
*reads rest of post*
This detent was on TOP of the trans? Look around, the ball might still be nearby.
IMO: Your best hope is that the spring is not mutilated when you remove it, and you can again move the shifter to 1st and 2nd gears once you have the spring out.
If this is the case, order the correct detent ball and spring from a Honda dealer and drop them in and see if it all works properly again.
The steel ball itself is probably a standard 5/16" ball bearing, but it is only 80 cents.
Spring and ball from a dealer shouldn't be more than $3.50 USD. Most dealers can get parts overnight.
EDIT: Make sure the washer is under the head of the bolt when you reassemble it. If the washer is missing, it might bind against the selector rod.
If you remove it and find the spring is mutilated and the shifter still doesn't move, then you are probably looking at a trans teardown to figure out where it is and what is damaged, or just chucking another trans in it.
HTH
But it never rains there!
UPDATE!! I pulled the detent bolt out, the spring was right where it was supposed to be and undamaged. The bolt goes strait down into the bell housing of the tranny and I can't see if there is a ball there. I um.. may have overfilled it with MTF and that's all I can see. Without the bolt in it shifts from gear to gear just fine. Maybe when i put the bolt in the spring was dropping into the notch that the ball was meant to go into, and that's what was keeping it from shifting? I'm gonna head over to honda to see if I can get them to sell me one. I'll update whether it works or not
Thanks again, ezone.Your "that's bad, really bad" kinda scared me though. If I understand you correctly, once I get a ball bearing in there with the spring and the washer, if It works I'm good? I don't have to worry about some stray ball floating around waiting until I'm 500 miles away from home to jump in between some gears and blow my car up??
Thanks!
12-07-2013
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Weird development... It won't shift with the bolt all the way screwed down, regardless of whether or not the spring is in. I'm suspecting that maybe the washer went missing from the bolt? That, or I overtightened it and smashed the washer down. Whatever happened, I can't get anything like a washer off of the bolt itself so I'm gonna pick one up from Honda just in case.
12-07-2013
#6
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Desperately need help- Just replaced clutch, car won't go into 1st or 2nd
Oh no, I'm headed to the other place. Got my one-way ticket on the bullet train. Window seat, smoking section. Hurry up, I don't want to be late for dinner!
Yay for you. Now you need the ball bearing.
The bolt goes strait down into the bell housing of the tranny and I can't see if there is a ball there. I think it's gone. Got a magnet?
Locate the correct fill plug and remove it. Let the excess fluid drain out until it stops.
BUT make SURE you have the fill plug this time.
Get a real service manual, it appears you really need one.
That trans holds a little less than 2 quarts.
Without the bolt in it shifts from gear to gear just fine. Good!
Exactly.
I doubt anyone will have it in stock. That's not a high failure item, by any means.
YW
Yep.
THINK: When you assemble it, you will drop the ball in FIRST---What's stopping the ball from dropping all the way in there now?
Then you will install the spring and washer and bolt.The spring is now pushing hard on the ball.----What's stopping the ball from dropping all the way in there now?
HTH
UPDATE!! I pulled the detent bolt out, the spring was right where it was supposed to be and undamaged.
The bolt goes strait down into the bell housing of the tranny and I can't see if there is a ball there.
I um.. may have overfilled it with MTF and that's all I can see.
BUT make SURE you have the fill plug this time.
Get a real service manual, it appears you really need one.
That trans holds a little less than 2 quarts.
Without the bolt in it shifts from gear to gear just fine.
Maybe when i put the bolt in the spring was dropping into the notch that the ball was meant to go into, and that's what was keeping it from shifting?
I'm gonna head over to honda to see if I can get them to sell me one.
I'll update whether it works or not Thanks again, ezone.
Thanks again, ezone.
Your "that's bad, really bad" kinda scared me though. If I understand you correctly, once I get a ball bearing in there with the spring and the washer, if It works I'm good?
I don't have to worry about some stray ball floating around waiting until I'm 500 miles away from home to jump in between some gears and blow my car up??
Then you will install the spring and washer and bolt.The spring is now pushing hard on the ball.----What's stopping the ball from dropping all the way in there now?
HTH
12-07-2013
#7
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Desperately need help- Just replaced clutch, car won't go into 1st or 2nd
Weird development... It won't shift with the bolt all the way screwed down, regardless of whether or not the spring is in. I'm suspecting that maybe the washer went missing from the bolt? That, or I overtightened it and smashed the washer down. Whatever happened, I can't get anything like a washer off of the bolt itself so I'm gonna pick one up from Honda just in case.
The washer MUST be in place.
It's a special washer too. Order it when you go to the dealer.
Pull it back out and make sure it still shifts and you didn't damage anything by binding the shift rod.
12-07-2013
#8
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Desperately need help- Just replaced clutch, car won't go into 1st or 2nd
Get a service manual before you do anything else to the car. You could have saved yourself a bunch of headaches.
12-07-2013
#9
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Any service manual that you would really recommend?
12-07-2013
#10
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Desperately need help- Just replaced clutch, car won't go into 1st or 2nd
I can't really answer that.
I have factory info available to me, and Alldata for most anything else at work.
E-bay a factory service manual?
Search for an online PDF version?
Look into Alldata DIY?
Many libraries have Alldata and/or Mitchell online info systems available.
HTH
I have factory info available to me, and Alldata for most anything else at work.
E-bay a factory service manual?
Search for an online PDF version?
Look into Alldata DIY?
Many libraries have Alldata and/or Mitchell online info systems available.
HTH
12-07-2013
#11
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Desperately need help- Just replaced clutch, car won't go into 1st or 2nd
You know, if you had the spring and bolt screwed in the hole but the washer was missing this whole time, then the bolt is what was keeping it all from moving.
Are you SURE the ball is missing now? Flashlight! Thin screwdriver and strong magnet!
Maybe all you need is the washer?
Are you SURE the ball is missing now? Flashlight! Thin screwdriver and strong magnet!
Maybe all you need is the washer?
12-07-2013
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You know, if you had the spring and bolt screwed in the hole but the washer was missing this whole time, then the bolt is what was keeping it all from moving.
Are you SURE the ball is missing now? Flashlight! Thin screwdriver and strong magnet!
Maybe all you need is the washer?
Are you SURE the ball is missing now? Flashlight! Thin screwdriver and strong magnet!
Maybe all you need is the washer?
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