mohawkboom

iTrader: (1)

Dynamats a good product who's price isn't anywhere resembling merited.

Dymamat Extreme offer extremely similar damping abilities. FatMat is much easier to work with and has an awesome price.

If you have actual rattles, that's because you have 2 solid objects coming into contact with each other.. a deadening matt will not help rattles in any way, shape or form. What it works against is resonances, where a span of sheet metal or plastic is vibrating and producing it's own sound.

To properly deaden your car you have to tighten the trunk latch.. run a bead of silicone into the trunk frame webbing remove the rear deck and put 1/2" strip of gasketting foam along the back of the rear deck where it comes in contact with the rear window. This will kill the rattles. You trunk and sidepanels and rear deck at this point will still resonate.. this is where 2 Layers of Fatmat, Raammat or Brown Bread come in.. I'd never suggest Dynamat because of it's ludacris price tag and the mentioned above deaden jus as well and are easier to work with.

Feel free to email me at dmtp@lycos.com if you have any deadening questions. I've tested Dyamat Extreme, Brown Bread and Raammat in alot of tests and of all of them Dynamat extreme lost all but one.. scent. but it was virtually negligable with all 3.

Best adhesion goes to Brown bread which is the same as Fat Mat, easiest to work with goes to raammat60 for sure. Deadening wise 2 layers of any of these will make any panel pretty much acoustically inert.

Best Value, FatMat by far...second least smell, second easiest to work with, best price. deadening wise is moot. 2 layers=dead for all 3.


Ludlam you rat sphinkter.. make this sticky or turn it into a DIY

LudlamTheory

stickified

fonto

iTrader: (1)

The master has returned Welcome back Mo!

dragoon

iTrader: (2)

hm.. they need to make a nice-smelling fatmat, lol. perhaps they should get in touch with the people that make the air spencer squash air fresheners

AntDeezy

iTrader: (3)

and make sure you dont have any lil metel pieces in the very bottom of your trunk, you know down where the spare tire is. like monolopy pieces, these lil pieces like to sit and chill with with a couple of loose pens and some MIA screws, they like to jump up and down while the music is playing, making a ridiculious amount of noise
they will sit un-detected and make you spend several hundred bucks getting your trunk sealed, dynamated, and generally "rattle free" until you find them, THEY ARE THE ENEMY !!!

nunzio42

iTrader: (4)

DONT HAVE THE $ TO BUY ALL THE NICE DEADING STUFF??? well the cheap mans way of doing this is easy as all can be. Go to ur local wal mart and buy 2 bags of poly-fill, yah thats right the stuff grandma stuffs teddi bears with. Then get a screw driver or pencil something small that u can stuff the stuff into every single hole in the trunk....aight i know i am going to get burnt to a crisp for this post but hey i did it in my 1992 civic b/c i could not afford the money for any of the other stuff and it worked. I had 2 12's back then and had over 600watts on it and it didnt rattle that much at all. So go for it cheap man it works, but use all 2 bags and cram it in!!!

petes97

iTrader: (2)

Mohawk, do you have a picture of where to put the silicone bead in the trunk? I've done all the other recommendations, but I didn't quite follow that one...

alex053

iTrader: (9)

it doesnt add mass to anything. I guess it could get inbetween the panels to stop rattle. If your at wal mart go get expanding foam with the green top. fill all voids with that

also....Rockford Dead Skin stinks liks asphalt also.

OyD

iTrader: (3)

i was wondering about the silicone as well?

and where in the trunk do you put all the dynamat(yes it's expensive at retail but not for me). i've been told trunk lid side panels but is there anywhere else?

Phanibal

NUNZIO42 THATS A HELLA GOOD IDEA FOR CHEAP DIY

nunzio42

iTrader: (4)

yah it is and it is a great way to save money, the more you can save the more u can mod!!!!

alex053

iTrader: (9)

thought i would add. i did my trunk lid today. I took it off the car to do it and it made it a snap considering its over 100 outside today. it was real easy...just loosen the two 10mm bolts that hold the latch on, disconect the cable and the wire harness, unplug the liscense plate light plugs and pull the harness and and the cable out either side. 4 more 10mm bolts take the trunk lid off the hinges and your good to go. I did this as a one man job and it let me do a lot better job of getting the mat on the lid.

hyperhonda2k2

iTrader: (1)

make sure if your using dynamat to use Dynamat Extreme.

Ocelaris

UPDATE! New PICS SPRING 2005

DOOR:


See the Stock Jute compared to what I added?



You can see my wires over time have worn into the stock asphault sheeting, and left some residue on my wires. Proof that OEMs use the same stuff.




I have added some pictures from my Sound dampening, note this is an Si, but the same will hold true for anyone... there's no "done" pictures, everything was half way when taking those pictures, I ended up using alot more asphault sheeting and jute by the time I was done. 3M spray adhesive is your friend with the Jute and doors/back panels

http://photobucket.com/albums/v511/O...und_Dampening/

Enjoy the thread, it's worth the read! best 100$ I ever spent, and that's ALL I spent. 10x better sound proofing than someone who spent 10x as much.

As always, the offer to hear/see my car stands to anyone who wants to. I'm in the DC/Nova area.

I made this post over at ClubRSX and got into a little tussle, I don't mean to stir up any trouble on the 7thgen forums, I actually enjoy and appreciate the atmosphere and likeable people... I get along less than famously on that board, so please don't take the below statement the wrong way, the context was some guy with 10,000$ of car audio in his vehicle was telling everyone that the only way to do soundproofing/dampening was to spend oodles of money and I got frustrated, so my comments below may be a little harsh, don't take them the wrong way anyone, they were not meant for you, I just didn't want to type up the entire thread again, so cut and paste mainly... or you can see the entire thread here on clubrsx if you do a search for "brown breading". I'm not gonna post the link because it's almost embarassing how I acted, so, with that said, here's some info on soundproofing.

Quote on:

No offense to anyone who's spent a small fortune on soundproofing their cars...

the ONLY reason to use dynamat, fatmat, brownbread, or any of these kinds of materials is for weight. There are two kinds of sound dampening, mass loading and diffusion. You could poop on your door panels and have the same exact effect if your poop weighed as much as your expensive fatmat/dynamat/brownbread. All these products are asphault. Different ones have aluminum backing, plastic backing etc... the aluminum and small amount of alphault will stop very little if any noise from leaving your vehicle. What the asphault IS good for, is lowering the resonance freqeuncy of noisy door panels. Think of your door panels like a saw, hear how the saw twangs? sheet metal is like a huge steel drum (and Anything hard will conduct sound very well) Don't even think of using spray foam, it actually amplifies the sound compared to dead air space inbetween your doors.

Asphault sheeting comes from 1 factory in Indiana or Iowa (I forget which), and they're all the same thing, asphault. Lead sheeting is what they use in some of the better home speakers, sandwhiched inbetween MDF. Ever wonder why they use such heavy material as MDF? You really think that your Sub is gonna make 1/2" MDF explode? Not even... 3/4" MDF is used because it's really Fing heavy. Same reason they use that heavy ish in home speakers, because weight does not vibrate.

My reccomendation. 33'x3' =99 sq feet of Grace Company "Ice and Water Guard". Cost 65$ at a roofing supply store. It's the same thing as dynamat original, fatmat, brownbread etc... except plastic backed instead of aluminum, so it's easy to apply. I've been told people think it's thinner than dynamat, and it might be, for the price, you can add 10 layers for the price of 1 dynamat layer. Your choice.

Second type of sound proofing, dissipation of noise. The tool of choice here is fiberous (not rubber) carpet padding, also called 'jute'. The idea is the same as why you put pillow stuffing in your sub box, the minute strands diffuse the vibrations and turn them into heat energy. I put carpet padding everywhere, and that made the biggest difference of all in my car, under the carpet, back panels, door panel, trunk. Cost = 3.50$ sq/yd mine cost roughly 25$.

I gaurantee if you could even find places for 100 sq feet of ice and water guard, and 40 square feet of carpet padding, your car would be leaps and bounds above anyone who spent 300-500$ on their sound proofing. I used 50 sq. feet of asphault sheeting, and maybe 40 sq. feet of carpet padding and spent a total of maybe 100$ after everything was said and done.

Oh, and don't even bother putting asphault sheeting on your floor of your car, there's already more than enough built into the vehicle for most of those panels, just use it on ones that when you bang on will make a noise, If you can bang on your floor of your car and it makes a noise, you got alot more problems than sound proofing. They say take a Sub, play it at 40hz and walk around to your entire car and see what rattles, I would say most of the time it's plastic piceces, most people never get their systems loud enough to really shake their metal, and think by mass loading (adding mass to panels) they'll somehow make it quieter? mass loading doesn't stop sound, diffusion does, try the jute.



quote: Brownbread and several others of the B-Quiet line of sound-deadening products are NOT asphalt and DO NOT smell like "Ice and Water Guard" asphalt on a hot day nor on installation. You neglected to mention this lovely fact in your otherwise excellent post. Most people don't like their $30,000 car smelling like asphalt

Some sound dampening materials are actually not mass dampening, if you want to get into the different types, that's another story. For example Dynamat extreme is vinyl stretchy material, and serves similar purpose of diffusion, turning vibrational energy into heat energy. These materials work just as good as if you put many layers of duct tape over your panels, they keep things from rattling, and tend to collect the noise. Point blank, these materials do not stop noise, merely turn what was many different panels into one large panel, it would be like welding the body panel onto the main chassis, only by the chassis's inherent weight do you lower the resonance frequency. Often times simply collecting all the resonances into one solid material is enough for the panel to be heavy enough to stop vibrations. But, the only way you are going to get rid of the noise is with mass, hence mass loading.

As to the smell, mine smelled for a day after, and haven't smelled it since. Hot days don't make a difference, never smelled. I think the "smell" issue is pretty much made up. As the asphault sticky side is what attaches to the doors etc... And if you don't think people with 30,000$ cars don't like the smell, then what about EVERY CAR already has asphault sheeting on it. Does your car smell like asphault when you buy it? No, because the smell goes away after a day or two. Take a car apart, see those maleable things stuck to your floor boards? They're everywhere, and every car maker uses them.

quote: Adding weight helps maintain the directionality of the speakers instead of creating multiple focal points of sound (i.e. each vibrating panel is a sound producing point). Asphalt is a great choice, but is limited due to its smell, and also its limited adherence in vertical positions.

Unfortunately the only way to get rid of sound is mass. You can pick lead or asphault. I myself pick asphault because it's cheap. I personally don't know of any other mass loading materials.


quote:Adding a composite foam, i.e. Vcomp from B-Quiet helps eliminate road noise along with other noises by adding dead-space and aiding in the dissipation of noise. It is half the thickness of Jute and provides twice the effect. B-Quiet's L-comp adds a lead barrier which aids this effect even greater. Jute works, BUT it is really damn thick and raises your carpet to new boundaries thus causing your carpet to no longer sit properly, your panels to no longer sit flush, etc. If you have tons of room, then use this cheap alternative, otherwise, use a vehicle specific product.

By composite foam, what exactly do you mean? The couple of materials I have discovered in my search have been a sandwhich of vinyl and open celled foam, which serves the same purpose as jute. There certainly are better materials than jute, when I worked for a home theatre installation company they had these compressed fiberglass panels that absolutely ate up sound, unfortunately compressed fiberglass is not maleable, and the regular fiberglass for insulation is too big (though it works just as well). And your right, jute is probably 3/8" thick, though if you have problems fitting panels back after adding 3/8" to your floors, that's not my problem, mine worked fine, panels fit back perfect.

Unfortunately there is a direct relationship between mass and thickness and sound diffusion. Either you get lots of mass (compressed fiberglass) which is unmaleable, or you get less compressed, like jute which is thicker. The more fibers in the path of the sound the better the diffusion. I don't doubt that composite foam/vinyl isn't a good material, I'm simply saying that for 1/10th of the price you can get 95% of the effectiveness of vehicle specific materials.

my rule of thumb is to rap the panel with my knuckle, if it makes a noise you don't like, stick your mass loading sheets there. the floor boards don't make a twangy sound like one of those old big hand saws (if you've ever heard the kinda sheet metalish wowooowwowwowoowow noise). If you think of that noise, and that's what you're trying to eliminate, you'll probably have a good understanding of what the purpose of those brownbread or dynamat sheets are for.

I put some sheets on the outer skin, and on the inner skin. Keep rapping it with your knuckle until it quiets down (assuming you're putting on more layers between raps ) The parts where the speakers go are also twangy sheet metal, I would put the sheets where your priorities are (probably doors first), and then back panels. Not sure as to the RSX's trunk, but I'm guessing there's some sheet metal there too, especially if you're bouncing your sub off of your trunk there might be some high twangy sheet metal there as well. Depends alot on what your setup is.

Quote Off.

Hope this helped anyone, and flame away if you must, but gimmie a break, I already took some bashing on clubRSX for it, just thought I'd share some info.

RedRider

Hey Ocelaris,

Doesn't the Ice and Water Guard make you car smell like tar???

Ocelaris

Nope. I think people who like to pay lots of $ made that rumor up to make themselves feel better about spending more $.

You also might hear it doesn't stick well. Well it does, everywhere. If it falls off, you probably didn't clean the surface well enough. I just used a sponge with warm water and soap, then allowed it to dry... ok, so I prolly wasn't that rigorous about cleaning, but some things I did clean... but it stuck everywhere, hasn't fallen down.

Of course any of the asphault based materials will smell while exposed to air, but once you put them on your car the smell goes away. It smelled the first day after installing it, but probably more just because the smell was in my garage than anything, after I took it out for a drive, never smelled it again.

Dynamat, Fatmat, BrownBread, ice and water gaurd, are all asphaultic based liners, some have different compositions, and the expensive brands swear that they use less volatile (read smelly) materials in their brand than ice and water guard... of course ice and water guard makers can't exactly stick up for themselves in this regards because they don't expect people to use it for that purpose, so the bigger companies can spew all the invective they want and get away with it....

It's getting cold now, so it wouldn't be really fair, but anyone who wants to see if my car smells like tar is welcome to come over on a really hot day and sniff around, I have a black car with a black interior, so it gets really hot, I haven't had any problems. Only thing I regret is not using more, I used 1/3rd of the roll, finacee used 1/3rd of the roll, and gave the last 3rd away to some friend... But It did it's job, my sub cranks, and nothing rattles, ok, so some plastic parts in the trunk do, but that's a technicality, has nothing to do with the use of asphault sheeting... This stuff is supposed to quiet down large sheet metal panels, and none of mine rattle, I should have used more jute in the cavities, which at some point I may go back and add some.

Some rambling thoughts, make of it what you will, Best, Bill

RedRider

Thanks Ocelaris

Phanibal

read the post again redrider

Bdubb

check out my deadening pics of the civic.

82801BA

I have done dynamat throughout my car and have hoodliner, still noise is crazy.
I feel that the main source of our car's noise is the GAP BETWEEN THE DOOR PANEL AND THE CAR(step on the engine, kind of like a 2 channel noise coming from left and right and meet at the middle). What I found out is that, every Honda has door seal on the compartment side except the Civic(EX sedan has the top half sealed, so it's a little quieter). Anyway, wonder if the RSX seal will fit if I trim out the interior trim.

82801BA

What I have is, dynamat extreme under carpet, center console, rear quarter, trunk floor and trunk side. Hoodliner. 4 layers of undercoating.
The reason why I figure out the door is because when a truck crosses in front of my car, I hear it from the left, and hear it from the right, but not at the center, and road noise is coming from the side too. I seat in the rear of my car and the car running at 70, it is quiet(quieter than a CL)......

Silver_JS5

iTrader: (7)

I recommend using the product Cascade instead of dynamat...i don't really know too too much about the composition of it...but my friend used dynamat extreme and i used cascade and i'm running about 300 more watts than he is and he still has his little rattles, and i don't have anything....it doesn't smell either...i don't get where people are saying that the stuff smells....

Ocelaris

Can you elaborate on the seal part? I am not sure I understand the door panel and the car? I wonder how much noise is transmitted through the transmission and dash area that we can't normally get into... My sister's Jetta is hella quiet, and I have almost just written off my car as having alot of glass surface area (Si) but maybe there's something to the seals? what part are you refferring to on the compartment side? And I assume you mean passenger's side by compartment side? Thanks

82801BA

The one with Civic, marked with "Trim"

nubmer 1 and 2

82801BA

The one with RSX, marked with "Seal"
number 1 and 2

82801BA

If everything we tried doesn't work, then better go with acoustic foam with vinyl backing for sound barrier. It should absorb a lot of noise. I will try that in summber, to put inside my door, and under carpet on top of the dynamat. If dynamat is used, probably we don't need the vinyl backing.

Ocelaris

vinyl and "asphault" based compounds aren't going to absorb almost any road noise, you would be better off with an insulation type fiberglass... like the kind they line air ducts with, and/or surround air ducts with, they whole point of those is to stop the high pitched noise. I used carpet "jute" the cheap fiberous stuff on the inside and it made a huge difference... just need to do my headliner and work on those seals some... But seriously, we install thse fiberglass sheets in home theatres that if you put your ear within 1 foot of it, that ear is effectively deaf because there is no sound at all reflected off of that compressed fiberglass sheet... in other words, if I had a choice, Id' line my whole car with that stuff if it were cheap and flexible... second best would be the stuff they line air ducts with, same stuff, but not as dense.

82801BA

Where can I buy those? And what exactly are those?

Ocelaris

"Jute" is kinda grayish jumble of fibers that they use for carpet padding, home depot or any hardware store with carpeting carries it. Now be forwarned, there is also the rubbery kind too, that stuff doesn't help at all, so just make sure you get the grey fiberous nylonish type. It's really cheap.

As for fiberglass, The insulation part of a home depot/ Lowes carries lots of varieties, just imagine it being under your floor of your car, in your doors etc, and you'll obviously want something thin and compactable. Basically, high pitched frequencies are dissipated in the exact same way that heat is kept in... with the exclusion of hard foams, hard foams actually will make more noise! So fiberous insulation is the goal, jute has been reccomended, but I reccomend home depot insulation, anything that you can fit inbetween yourself and the road will help.

My test for good sound absorbers:

Get one ear close to the material, and then listen to sounds around you, good materials should make your ear close to the material sound deaf, since it's absorbing all the sound that normally would be reflected off hard surfaces into your ear. I rolled myself up in the jute in the home depot and rolled around in it to see how good it was... pretty good stuff Anyways you get the idea, home depots have lots of noise hopefully so you can test your materials out. I love goin down the new Lowes, they have a trillion different insulations, I want to try this pillow type stuff in my headliner, and take my doors off again and put more fiberglass stuff in it. And it's LIGHT! P8ace

82801BA

Still doesn't get it.....
Any name of the product that you can put in here for reference?