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I've got a 4 channel (400w) AutoTek amp powering my infinity kappa components up front and an MTX sub with the remaining two channels (yes, yes i know, nothing to write home about, but it serves my musical tastes just fine). Anyway i want to know how at what setting the gains on my amp should be set to. for the comps.... and what setting for the sub?

thanks, thanks

 
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they NEED to be set to exactly 3/4 the way up. no more, no les! wait, no.......

easiest way to set gains is to put your deck at above halfway, not quite at full volume, then turn teh gain up till you hear distortion in teh music you play, then back it off a litle. that is the basic way you do it.

start with comps, then finish with subs. easiest way to do it.

and you NEED to do it this way. [IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]

 
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Actuslly you set the gains at ZERO..which is the highest voltage level possible.. Then play music and turn your HU up as high as it goes before you hear distortion....once your hear distortion turn the volume on your HU down a tad then turn the gains on the amp up (to a lower voltage setting untill distortion kicks in.. back it off a wee bit and your set..


Cheers
Mohawk

 
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is this to compensate for possible deck clipping?

 
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Nope.. it's the point where your get maximum output without the HU or the amp clipping.. I forgot to add that where your Volume **** is on your HU right before it distorts..never turn it up higher than that... And ALL Hu's will distort near max output. the really good one's won;t distort much though.

Cheers
Mohawk

 
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Well, thanks Mohawk, but when I set the gain to zero I dont get any sound at all from the speakers attached to it. Right now the sub gain is at about half, and the comps are at a little less.

 
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no sound at all?.. back it off a wee tad untill you get sound [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

 
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<< Nope.. it's the point where your get maximum output without the HU or the amp clipping.. I forgot to add that where your Volume **** is on your HU right before it distorts..never turn it up higher than that... And ALL Hu's will distort near max output. the really good one's won;t distort much though.

Cheers
Mohawk >>



file this statement under "lol"

get an oscilliscope and take your foot out of you mouth [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]

and if i ask whether the process is to remove the deck clipping, dont say "nope" and then follow it up with an explanation that states it IS in fact to remove deck clipping.



<< And ALL Hu's will distort near max output. >>



you killed the word need, please dont kill the word all, too =/

 
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It's to remove both HU and possible amp clipping from having the gains too high..once you the HU is not clipping. then play untillm the amp clips, and back off the gains a hair... And do you have an oscilliscope?..wanna buy me one I'll gladly use it. But 70% of shops don't have one and 99% of people don't have one and play it by ear. the NOPE was because it's to prevent overall system distortion, not just HU clipping.

And would you quick knocking cracks and contradicting or examplifying(if that's even a real word) what I say every time [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].

Cheers
Mohawk

 
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words like NEED and ALL imply that every possible situation falls under what you say. its called generalization, in most cases, its called stereotyping, and in special cases, its called racism, sexism, or bigotry.

I do not have an O-scope, but the physics department at my university does, as well as a friend of mine. we have done many experiments using my equipment and that o-scope to see exactly where the wave clips, how much it clips, how to create a true square wave, etc.....

my deck, pioneer DEH-P4000, is four years old naw and BY FAR is not high end. when we checked the speaker outs with teh oscope, we only got clipping after turning every single boost feature up, and the volume to 28 out of 30. with the boosts off, teh eq set to normal listening, etc. the wave did nto clip, even at 30 of 30.

we then checked teh pre-outs. NOTHING, and i mean absolutely nothing we did could make that signal clip. nothing at all. so in MY SYSTEM specifically, I set my volume level all the way up, with everything else flat, then i work on my amplifier gains.

but not every deck is like mine! in fact, according to you

<< ALL Hu's will distort near max output >>

not a single deck is like mine! not to mention according to you no alternator is like mine, either.....

you cant make generalizations like this! it is safe to say that at 1/2 to 3/4 of max volume in a deck, there will be no clipping. this is why most people (most dammit, most!) will use this as the volume level to set the amp gains at. it will also allow leeway for when you play songs that have smaller waves to turn the volume higher, as it would not clip so soon as the music (or tones) you were setting your gains at.

now: lets take a look at how i reccommended setting the gains compared to what you did:
my way: ensures amp is not clipping.
your way: ensures both amp and deck are not clipping.

so when i asked if yoru way was to prevent deck clipping (since i could think of no other reason why you would set your gains in this manner) and you told me no, then proceded to tell me yes, there was jsut some small miscommunication.

but this constant over-generalization of equipment, it just serves to spoon feed false information to the users of this forum, who accept it readily, without question.



<< And would you quick knocking cracks and contradicting or examplifying(if that's even a real word) what I say every time >>



the crack was due to me feeling insulted that you contradicted yourself answering me, and undermined the process accepted by 90% of tuners out there.

the contradiction was due to your constant generalization of what everyone should have in their car, why they should have it, and just plain mis-information.

cheers!

 
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Well I ALWAYS keep things as simple and most practicle as possible. Your HU may not clip at all. But also check the RCA output voltage at max volume. Your HU (either 4volt or I think 2.3 volt) May not be putting out it's full power. alot of HU's rated at 4 VoltsRMS will only put out about 2.8 volts RMS and 4volts peak at one magick frequency but voltage can be inconsistent might wanna check that...could explain why your HU isn't clipping.

As for your alternator. Your only running 600Wrms of class D power.. you shouldn't have ANY problems save for some minor dimming with big bass hits. Let me know how it goes after you hook up the second sub and run the full 1200Wrms, then see how your voltage meter holds up [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].

As for overgeneralizing. well so what..I'm always very close to the truth if not dead on with my generalizations.

I've also noticed you give very technical responses to people here. But only after I have and only to contradict me. If you know so much to constantly contradict me why aren't your technical replies up there before mine??.

and before you say anything..if you test your HU and it does put out full rated voltage out the RCA's and doesn't clip congrats.. most HU's even Naks, Eclipse, and high end pioneers and alpines do when you crank that volume ****. Pioneer Premiere 940's and DEX p1 and p9's however are all factory adjusted so that at max Volume with sine waves they will not clip the signal. Pioneer might have also put that much effort into their older HU's as well..I wouldn't know, I only hit the car audio scene 2 1/2 years ago or so. when pioneers 200 series HU's were like the 2200, 7200 and whatnot.

Anythign I'm missing?

 
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GOOOOO mohawkboom

 
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wow, can't believe my dumb little question caused such an all out verbal brawl. I must say though, Mohawk has given the most helpful responses to all of my questions in the past as they are always written in a way that even my dumb *** can understand. I appreciate that man.

"And that's all I have to say about that." --Forest Gump

 
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*sigh*.....



<< Well I ALWAYS keep things as simple and most practicle as possible. Your HU may not clip at all. But also check the RCA output voltage at max volume. Your HU (either 4volt or I think 2.3 volt) May not be putting out it's full power. alot of HU's rated at 4 VoltsRMS will only put out about 2.8 volts RMS and 4volts peak at one magick frequency but voltage can be inconsistent might wanna check that...could explain why your HU isn't clipping. >>



it is rated for like 2.3 or something. doesnt mean anythign when it comes to clipping. nothing at all.



<< As for your alternator. Your only running 600Wrms of class D power.. you shouldn't have ANY problems save for some minor dimming with big bass hits. Let me know how it goes after you hook up the second sub and run the full 1200Wrms, then see how your voltage meter holds up [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]. >>



i was talking about your generalization to "need" an alt. not as to my system specifically. but after all teh pain we went through for that you told me that maybe i have some sort of lucky alternator or something. but the fact is many, many, many people run very high current draw systems on stock alternators and have been fine. are they perhaps doing something you are not?



<< As for overgeneralizing. well so what..I'm always very close to the truth if not dead on with my generalizations. >>



all decks clip, you need a new alt....... not very close at all.



<< I've also noticed you give very technical responses to people here. But only after I have and only to contradict me. If you know so much to constantly contradict me why aren't your technical replies up there before mine??. >>



flat out not true. but prove me wrong. if you wanna go and check every single thread i have replied to, go ahead. but this is just a lie.



<< and before you say anything..if you test your HU and it does put out full rated voltage out the RCA's and doesn't clip congrats.. most HU's even Naks, Eclipse, and high end pioneers and alpines do when you crank that volume ****. Pioneer Premiere 940's and DEX p1 and p9's however are all factory adjusted so that at max Volume with sine waves they will not clip the signal. Pioneer might have also put that much effort into their older HU's as well..I wouldn't know, I only hit the car audio scene 2 1/2 years ago or so. when pioneers 200 series HU's were like the 2200, 7200 and whatnot. >>



i havent been on teh scene for much longer than you =/ again, HU voltage in relation to clipping...well, there is no relationship. you deck either clips or it doesnt. it can clip at 9 volts just as easily as it can .5 volts. and i dont know anything about pioneer p1's and p9's as far as clipping goes, but if i drop over a grand on a head unit it had damn well better not clip no matter what [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]



<< Anythign I'm missing? >>



and a paaaaartiiiige in a pear, tree

 
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As for Stock alternators easily 75% of them put out more than 70 amps. Most put out 90 or 105 amps.. Now 20 more amps at 13.8 volts is 276 more wats of leeway. Music being dynamic Can draw anywhere from 10-40% usually around the 25 mark so that's nearly another 700 watts that can be run with a failry efficient class D amp..now 105 amps ..that's over 480 watts more leeway...now say you have an amp that's 70% efficient and pts out say 1200Wrms..means that's 1715 watts of draw at rated power or 124 amps. Drop that to 25%(music loads) 31 amps... 2 of those and a 100WRMSx2 amp can be handled by your average GM car no PROBLEM..specially if your not bumping full blast [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]..

now a Civic with a 70 amp alternator..with all Accessories on draws a little over 40 amps.....leaves you say 30 amps of leway for sound...(mind you our alts don't have any fans so they get HOT when the get hot..they put out less power) But we;ll ignore that fact just for fun. 30 amps x13.8 volts=414 watts of power free for constant draw.

times that by 4 (25% music duty) 1656 watts. so if your running class a/b amps(50% efficient) you can run a 825Wrms system but that's pushing the limits of what your can put out. Say you have a 2X100Wrms class a/b amp. that's 400 watts of that being drawn. and say a 1200Wrms class D that's 70% efficient that's 1715 watts of draw...Hmm I sense a problem here...how about you skippy?

Now something I been looking into because Out alternators are medium case Mitsubishi alternators..they also have a 90 amp version. a 90 amp and a 100Wrmsx2 amp and a 1200Wrms class D amp can be run with a little leeway and should be more than fine. But i'm still trying to get my hands on a newer one and see if all the wiring leads match up on it and my 70 amp alt....

If so this is a $250 amp.. WAY cheaper than a 160 amp alt from Ampmanaudio $685+shipping and shipping insurance($70-90)


And a Partridge in a pear tree!!!!!

 
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*sigh* i dont want to hear anything about alternators from you anymore, god boy. you can spout numbers until even I am blue in the face, that does not change the fact that there are a billion people out there (yes, exactly one billion people) that have high draw systems on stock electrical systems. are you going to tell all of them they are wrong?

i thought this was a debate about gain settings? [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG]

 
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<< I've also noticed you give very technical responses to people here. But only after I have and only to contradict me. If you know so much to constantly contradict me why aren't your technical replies up there before mine??. >>



i just realized i posted here before you! theres at least one example.......[IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/moon.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]

edit: ONLY to contradict...ONLY after you...... more generalization that is dead on???

 
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how should i set the gain on my amp that is only hooked up to my subs? I turn it to zero then crank the music up until i hear distortion? i thought there should be no music playing while i turn it up. if this true then how do i keep the highs from playing. please clarify for the inexperienced

 
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best way to tune a stock deck with stock fronts plus rear sub IMO is to disconnect teh sub, and start with just the fronts. turn up the volume till you can hear distortion, then back off. you will have to set not only volume, but treble and bass controls as well. fader and balence should be at zero.

one you got yoru max volume before distortion in yoru fronts, you reconnect teh sub. slowly turn the gain up till you feel the fade between teh sub and fronts is ok. hopefully at this point you cant hear distortion. if you do, back off a bit. if you cant, and are a bass head who doesnt care about music just booming, then turn it up till you hear distortion, then back it off a little.

in teh mustang, i want to be assured of a quality install, seeing as its my first install of a sub and stock deck. therefore i will be tuning with the O-scope personally. I will be able to tell you about clipping characteristics of mustang stock decks after that, and you can use that as a start point if you wish.

but really its all about what you percieve as sounding good. if it sounds good, keep it. if it starts to crap out, change the setting.

 
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What's the danger in setting the Gain too high, or too low for that matter?

 
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the danger is sending a clipped signal to the sub, which may cause the sub to overheat, and then stuff starts to break.

in the real world, it is much easier to break a sub with too littel power than too much, simply based on the fac tthat at low powers, a person is much more likely to turn teh gain up to clipping levels to get the desired SPL. this is not healthy for the sub.

there really is no gain too high, too low. its a matter of whether the signal is getting clipped or not. which can be pretty easy to hear.

 
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I always listen to music with loudness, bass, treble and equalizer. So should i set the gain with these features switched on or or should i turn them off before (i.e loudness off, bass 0, treble 0 and eq flat)?

Here's my system configuration (all pioneer):
KEH-P6025
GM-X962
TS-A6995

By the way, what is the voltage of my head unit 0.5v, 2.3v, 4v, or what...?