TemjinX2

iTrader: (11)

I got a 200watt rms rockford 4 channel amp connected to my rears and fronts, but no subs. I recently did a retrofit and added hids. The hids draw about 30amps when they first turn on and then lower after about a few seconds. My amp fuses is a 60amp fuse.

The fuse to my amp keeps blowing when i use the hids and my amp at the same time. The hid fuse is fine but my amp one keeps blowing. Should i just put a higher end fuse on my amp? like a 90amp fuse?

Or should i just wait longer before i turn on my radio when the hids come on?

eye_see_you

iTrader: (13)

do you have atleast a 25 amp fuse for the headlights ? if not you should upgrade it to handle the HID ballast from my experience

TemjinX2

iTrader: (11)

I have a 30amp fuse for the hids.

A03

iTrader: (2)

It sounds like you have somthing wired incorrectly.

How is your amplifier getting power? I assume you've got a heavy cable running directly to the battery, and your fuse is a few inches off the terminal?

HID should be run similarly, through 1 or a pair of power relays, that are connected directly to the battery on a separate fused circuit.


If you've done things correctly, I can see no logical reason why you'd be having these problems. So.. how did you wire up your stuff?

MegaHurtz

iTrader: (6)

^^ I agree with what he said... how's it wired?

TemjinX2

iTrader: (11)

i have a 4gauge wire going directly from the battery to the amp. The fuse is about 4-5inches from the battery. The hids are connected through a harness which is connected directly to the battery and 30amp fuse and has power relays then are directly connected to the ballasts.

I got radio shack fuses? Are they too cheap or something?

grenloch101056

iTrader: (11)

thats really weird. If you turn your stereo on after the hids have warmed up, does it still blow the fuse?

Once you replace the fuse, does it blow the next time you turn your radio on?

A03

iTrader: (2)

Damn.. this is a strange one!!!! I wish you lived around me so I could poke around and try to learn from this.

It sounds like you've done things right.. so lets think about what is happening here.

First of all, you are whacking a 60 AMP fuse! That is a pretty serious spike of current to blow that heavy of a fuse. Think about what sort of things have the ability to draw a spike of current that high, what besides a direct short or starting the car could draw 60A+ to blow that fuse? (your amp in proper functionality will NOT draw over 60A driving your interior speakers only).

I would think that somewhere in the car you should be able to find signs of the culprit. Burning electronics smell? Get right up on your amplifer and sniff it all over. If somthing has let loose inside or is about to completely let loose, the magic smoke will indicate the problem lies near!

Signs of burn or scorched metal on the amplifier terminals or anywhere along the main power lead for the amplifier? Could the jacket be worn in some spot that can occasionally reach ground and blow that fuse? perhaps? Whatever is taking the 60A+ hit is going to show some signs.. be it physical or in scent.

First thing I would try to do is watch the problem occur. Replace the amp fuse with a 60A. Park car, activate headlights, activate system. Watch around the amplifier area. (it may not ever happen when you're parked.. maybe it only happens while driving??). Observe.. see if anything happens when the fuse blows? Watch for arcing, or smoke.

Next up - try to eliminate some part of of the potential problem causers. The HID always stays on and does not seem to complain right now. So how about this.. pull the fuses out of the HID relay power line so your ballasts go dead. Take out the HID bulbs and connect some stock bulbs just layin up under the hood. Try running the car with halogens and the system up and see if you can get the the fuse to blow again. If you can make it happen with the car in park both ways, you know the amp is taking a major **** or the power lead is damaged somewhere along the line.

If you blow the fuse with the HID's on in park, but it will not blow the fuse with halogens on in park.. well... I hate to say it, but I don't know what the hell! Inspect the relay wiring harness design and see if you can find some flaw in it. Although I can't imagine how this could change the amp power lead in any way..

Top guess.. amp going bad or is bad.
Second guess.. amp power lead damaged.

Since HID works without a problem, and should be unrelated in all ways that I can imagine.. I can't see any reason why the HID would be the source of the problem. Perhaps this was just a strange timing issue, where the amp power lead was damaged or the amp took a **** at the same time you started with the HID install?

A03

iTrader: (2)

Oh.. DO NOT drop in a 90A fuse!

Somthing is really wrong with the setup right now, and putting in a 90A will only allow more current to flow over that 4AWG before blowing the weakest link (your 90A fuse). Making the weakest link (fuse) stronger may result in somthing else blowing or catching fire instead. (whatever the new weakest link in the circuit is).

60A draw isn't normal your described situation. There is a problem. Upping the fuse amperage isn't the answer.

TemjinX2

iTrader: (11)

damn i was hoping you guys would just tell me i was being a idiot and was using too weak of a fuse.

I'll try to elaborate on a few more details, hopefully you guys will know the answer.

My setup worked fine for almost 2yrs until i added the hids. Second i did move my ground, my ground was originally a bolt then i drilled into the chassis, then recently after doing a search on these forums i moved it to the chassis bolt under the rear seats. i was still getting a slight grounding out, until i moved it to the chassis bolt and it seem to fix the grounding out problem.

The first time this happened, i was driving with my hids on and listening to the radio at low volume because my mom was in the car with me. The speakers kepted making intermittent static sounds through the speakers and then eventually died. The second time i replaced the fuse had my hids on and it seemed ok. I made the dumb mistake of turning my car over to turn on the engine with all this on and it kill the fuse right away.

Should i move my ground back to its original location? or replace my power wire with another 4 gauge?

I'm gonna go to best buy tomorrow and buy a different brand fuse and see if that helps.


Thanx for the suggestions guys, kep them coming. When it comes to car audio stuff i'm a noob, i'm more of a computer guy.

jay78

iTrader: (7)

i think your ground is the problem...do this
keep your hid off......then turn the amp on see wat happend...if it blow up the fuse then check your ground
cuz as u said u changed your ground and since u hve this problemm......

grenloch101056

iTrader: (11)

the ground could have more of a voltage drop than your first one. Higher voltage drop = higher current draw to get same amount of power.

what doesnt make sense is how quick the fuse blows, its gotta be a direct short somewhere along the power chain or inside the amp like AO3 mentioned. If you can get ahold of another amp, swap it in and try to replicate the problem.

TemjinX2

iTrader: (11)

I don't have another amp unfortunately. I went to a stero shop and asked them how much it would cost to look over my wiring and they said $75 to $150. I said screw that, since i can just get my stereo reinstalled at best buy for $45.

Anyways i bought another fuse and i moved the ground. I even sanded paint off the chassis to get a better connection. It seems to be ok. I turned my radio on, then turned on the car then turned on my HIDS. It seems to be holding up ok. My stereo also sounds a little better with the new ground.

Thanx everyone for your advice, i'll rep everyone when my rep counter comes back

TemjinX2

iTrader: (11)

arghhh....after driving about 60miles tonite i noticed the same problem that happened to me the first time is happening now. Basically when i have my hids on and i have my music at medium to high i hear a electric static sound through the speakers or when i have it on with my AC for example. I notice it goes away when i turn the volume down.

Is my battery just too weak to output to the amp and HIDS at the same time?

The guy at the shop suggested i needed a capacitor. Would this help? If so what brands and models do you guys suggest?

MegaHurtz

iTrader: (6)

^^ please don't listen to what that guy just said

A03

iTrader: (2)

I don't think that a cap will solve your problem.

Depending on the HID ballast, the initial startup current is the only time they can cause a high amperage draw. From my monitoring of Gen3 hella ballasts and Matsushita ballasts, I found 12.5A to be about average for the first second of startup. It takes around 5-8 seconds for the amperage draw to stabilize to around 3.8A each. That is less current draw than what your stock halogens should have been consuming (halogens should be around 5-6A each). The amperage draw of the headlights is nothing, and you are not overloading your electrical system because of them. As you can see, they use less power once heated up than halogens.. the only spike is when the initial strike happens and the ballast has to operate in HV.

I am sticking to the statement of.. bad amp or bad power cable leading to the amp. Could you detect burnt electronics odor on or near the amplifier????

Good Luck.

grenloch101056

iTrader: (11)

sounds like induced noise. the hid ballasts are very noisy, are they mounted close to the amp power cable? Did your fuse blow?

jay78

iTrader: (7)

you talking about static noice is it same as engine noice?
it it is make sure your rca cable are twisted one..not close to the power wire..

TemjinX2

iTrader: (11)

Its not a engine whining noise. Its more like paper slowly tearing for lack of a better description, basically i can hear my fuse slowly dying out. I only hear it when i have the car on, the HIDS on and my stereo to medium to high volume.

The power cable is located maybe about 5inchs from my ballast. I ghetto rigged it to my neuspeed strut bar. My ballast are the bosch ones from a
e46. I'll try the new power line. My amp is a 4 channel rockford 200 rms amp if that helps any.


I''ll try moving my power cord further away from my ballasts. Would the ballasts be causing some kind of interference with the power cord?

grenloch101056

iTrader: (11)

they have the possibility of inducing noise into the power line, they operate at such a high voltage

TemjinX2

iTrader: (11)

Anyways, i thought about moving the power wire like others have suggested and i looked into the engine and bam i found my problem right away.


Apparently there was too much slack on the power wire, so part of it was touching the engine. The heat from the engine burnt away the insulation and i had a exposed wire. I'm guessing the tear sound i heard, was the wire grounding out to the engine block.


Anyways i disconnected my amp for now and I'll work on it after finals....i feel like such an idiot...............:


THanx for your help guys.

A03

iTrader: (2)

Glad you found the problem! You should post a picture of the burns or damages left by that high current direct short.

See.. using a 90A would have just made the short able to do that much more damage.

TemjinX2

iTrader: (11)

Do we really need photographic proof of my idiocy??

y

A03

iTrader: (2)

Everyone does stupid things.. I've done my share! It would be nice to post because it will stick in readers heads.. Anyone who has kept up with reading this thread will retain some memory of what happened. Add a picture of the damages to go along with the lesson learned, and none of them should forget it! Hopefully it saves someone else from leaving a power cable near a hot surface in the future.

Besides, I'd like to see the damage from a repeated 60A hit. I've seen arc damage from shorts before, but don't have a good mental picture of how much damage to expect between certain amperage ranges. Just trying to expand my mostly useless knowlege of electronics.