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I'm currently running two amps in my car, one 900 watt amp for my two kicker compvr subs and running another 300 watt amp for my front speaks & tweets, and for my rear speaks.

So all together I'm running 1200 watts of of the OEM battery & alternator. I was talking to some people at my local audio shop that I goto and their surprised that I'm running with out a capacitor. But I thought I would ask some place where they aren't trying to get me to buy something.

 
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You don't need a cap unless your lights are dimming and it bothers you. According to some on here there is no use for a capacitor otherwise.

 
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Alright - because the only time I can even see a little bit of dimming is at night when I'm parked and I turn on the cabin light. I see very little dimming, you can only notice if you're looking at the light itself.

Thanks for the quick reply.

 
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A few questions for you:

1. Do your lights dim?
2. Does the dimming of your lights (interior, headlights, etc) bother you?

If you answered no to either of those questions, then no, you do not need a cap. If you answered yes to the first, and no to the second, you do not need a cap. If you answered yes, then yes again, then it's feasible for you to get a cap. All they do is aid in curing dimming. If they tell you otherwise, tell tehm to prove it, and when they give their explaination, ask them how confident they are of it. When they say that they are positive, invite them here. Also tell them to prove it to Richard Clark, he'll give them $5000 cash if they can. The only downside for them is that he has physics to explain it for him, and to back him up on it.

 
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Not according to some here, according to physics, that's the only use for a cap.

 
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Do you mean a cap won't make my bass kick harder?

Hey Pop, you ever been to Magic City? I've always wanted to see it. I've always wanted to visit ATL.

 
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My friend has 4 alpine type r twelves in his tacoma and an old school rockford amp. the thing is HUGE! and yeah he needed a cap.. the lights would almost completely die out when the bass hit and his dome light dim too big time! lmao oh and after not even a minute of bassing out the radio would start to cut out.. so if it is that bad get a cap... once he got that cap it helped alot. He is thinking of having the alternator respooled and getting an optima battery. He figures after that he will be fine. But IMO you shouldn't need a cap.

 
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you get 1200 watts of heat from those sparkomatic amps maybe................

lol.

signed....B-Dog

 
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if you go for a cap, i recommend the BatCap 800 (check them out on eBay)...

 
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I just purchased a new alternator 200 amp and I have no dimming whatsoever.. beef up the electrical system first. A cap is more of a band-aid than a cure... and sometimes, caps screw things up more than not having one.

 
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how so?

 
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i took my volume as loud as i could (without distrotion) with switching my ac/ headlight/ lights everything on

then i took a volt meter and connected it to the battery. when the bass would hit , the reading would fall all the way to 10.06


then i conencted the cap with the battery and it showed the same

 
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I am suprised your lights dont dim alot with 1200 total wattage. I only have 1 Alpine 501(about 600watts rms or 1200max) and when I crank it up all of the way the lights dim alot. I would get a new alt and battery.

 
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Explain to me how a cap is a bandaid for electrical problems.

 
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let's suppose that your cap is at 0vdc when you start your car and your stereo powers up. at the instant voltage is applied to the cap, current will be at it's maximum because when a cap has no voltage on it's plates, it appears as a short. as the cap charges, voltage across it increases and current decreases. now here is where the cap becomes somewhat of a bandaid. when you have a surge, such as when the bass hits, if your regulator cannot compensate for the current draw, voltage and current is drawn from the cap. but, only about 40% of the fully charged cap is useful anyway when it discharges because of the voltage drop in the electrical system, and by this time, your regulators will have recovered and recharged the cap back to max value. if you see slight dimming in your system and you install a cap and that fixes your problem, then all you have really done is cushion your regulators. this is not a totally great fix because you are essentially still stressing the regulators in your altenator. the real fix would be to get a higher rated altenator.

hope this helps.

 
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That still does not explain how a cap fixes an electrical problem. The truth is that caps do absoloutely nothing to fix an electrical problem. They can not effect electrical performance. Headlight performance, ehh... maybe, but electrical performance, no. Caps aren't a band aid for electrical problems, or performance. To liken one's use to a bandaid is abuse of the terminology.

 
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what is your definition of "an electrical problem"?

if you have noise on your 12 volt bus, which can be seen by using a scope, or if you have a.c. riding the 12 volt bus, however you want to look at it, a cap will fix this problem, if, and only if all your components are operating properly. this would be an electrical problem.

if you run straight copper wire from your distributor to your plugs, you will surely pick up noise from the plugs. (r.f. noise in this case, r.f. meaning radio frequency). now just because you have the noise from the plug wires, does that mean you have an electrical problem. yes because you have noise, and no because nothing is being damaged, but operational characteristics of other items may be affected.

i stated that it's a bandaid if it cures the dimming, (BUT I NEVER SAID IT FIXES AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM),in other words, or as electronic techs may call it: "stacking tolerances". because the lights dim when the bass hit's does not mean there is a "problem, problem meaning a failing part". it just means that the limits of that particular part is being reached.

lets suppose that your altenator is rated at 35 amps. i would pretty much bet that the 35 amp rating is it's optimal rating where the altenator runs at it's maximum rating just before the electronic characteristics start to go down. now, the absolute max current draw from that same altenator may be 45 amps and at that point, the regulators may short out because of saturation.

but let's suppose you have all your crap on and your drawing 38 amps while the bass hits. now your running the altenator past it's optimal operating point, but not exceeding it's limits. this does not mean your altenator is bad, it just means you are stressing it more. continous operation this way will result in the life span of your altenator being shortened, but not neccesarilly a defective altenator. this is where a cap can be considered a band-aid.

how much electronics experience do you have?

other than what i have written, i don't know how else to explain it to you.

maybe someone else can.

 
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You changed the original apparent opinion. The way I read the first post, which you replied to my quotation of how is a cap a bandaid for an electrical problem/performance? You replied to that, meaning you were going to explain how it was a bandaid for this. I took it that that's what you were saying. With that, I'll say this:
Physics explain to me that capacitors do nothing for electrical performance, that it only does something for headlight performance. But don't take my words for it, here are a few threads to read through because I don't feel like typing a lot of crap that's been posted time in and time out about this same subject. Myths and misconceptions about caps are commonly regurgitated from forum to forum, and in the world of car audio. Mainly to sell product, but I digress... Physics also explain it to Richard Clark. You prove to him that capacitors do anything but keep headlights from dimming and he'll pay you 5 grand.

BTW, here are the two threads I was talking about:

http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/sh...ight=capacitor

http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/sh...ight=capacitor

 
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i did not change anything. i stated the same thing in all my posts.

my opinion is this on this cap issue:

if your are running your power supply at more than nominal, but not past the high tolerance, you will see a degrading in the performance of the total operation of the power supply system. i don't care what "physics" you come up with. i read through those threads and saw where someone suggested adding more caps.......,(which i thought was funny). lets put it this way, the next time you get pulled over, ask the cop to see the engine compartment. let me know if you find any caps under the hood or even in the trunk. police cars run a hell of alot of power when they have all their systems running, but they also have high output altenators.
as i stated, a cap can fix a noise issue. if your system has a problem with noise on the 12 volts, and everything in your system is operating properly, then a cap WOULD fix the noise problem.
i do believe that a cap would alleviate a dimming issue if the current draw is above the nominal rating but not exceeding the maximum rating. (i.e. you see a 1.2 volt drop for 30 milliseonds on the 12 volts, a cap could lower the time to 15 milliseconds and the voltage drop to .6 volts, and at that point, your eyes and brain may not see the dimming, thus, "problem fixed".) if you are running a high drain system, the only true fix to lack of power is to upgrade the altenator and wiring from the altenator.

one of my hobbies is restoring tube radios and amplifiers. these guys use anywhere from 10mic to 80mic caps with rated voltage of 25 to 600 volts. the sole purpose of these caps is to filter the ac noise of the dc line to ground and to smooth the dc output. they do not increase the current or the voltage.

the use of the word bandaid comes down to semantics. anybody can play that game.

i can also tell you that all the electronic formulas in any books you read are also "ideal". in a perfect world, any measurement made on anything electrical will follow and match exactly with a printed formula, but unfortunately, this isn't a perfect world and alot of measurements vary slightly because no two identical components are the same. the books do not account for noise.

this is what i know.

oh, i clicked on "clarks" url and "page could not be found" was returned.

ok, that's about all i can say.

well, except that the right way in my opinion to fix a dimming issue is to get a higher capacity altenator.

 
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i just went through and searched the forum for this issue and i think i see what you are thinking, that being a cap will improve performance.

lol....i saw this link:

http://www.sell.com/2GGJG

i really like the line where it states: "Stiffening capacitors can help your amplifiers deliver up to 50% more output on those demanding peak bass notes. Most automotive alternator/battery systems simply lack the ability to produce large amounts of instantaneous power. This is exactly the type of power that car audio amplifiers crave. Adding a stiffening capacitor to your system can add tremendous bass punch and improve transient response.
"

what a crock.

i do not beleive this to be true if this is what you thought i was thinking. now, i do beleive a cap may reduce the transient surge time, in effect, giving you the idea that the amp is putting out more power when in fact all it did was reduce the amount of time the voltage/current was lower than normal. if you have a 250 watt peak amp, nothing is going to make that amp put out more power.

 
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True, though personally, I'd go with the other two of the big three first, because of cost mainly, saving the alternator to last because it's the most expensive obviously.

 
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hmm..i got a jl 1000.1 w/ 13W7,and damn the dimming is insane, i am in need of a good capacitor b/c my system shut off when i sit at a light or something. but if u have a good system setup, a alternator and battery will do more than u can imagine. jus getting an Optima yellow top could help you out bunches...or so their website says.

 
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a yellowtop can actually make dimming worse. most certainly it will make your voltage transient far worse. most people notice a reduction in dimming. makes sense, if the yellowtop is fully charged at 13.8 rather than 12.X

anyways, pop, I wouldnt waste your time anymore. youve made your point, and xpop made his. Jdog can believe whomever he wants and get what he feels will help him best. the worst thing that can happen to him is he spends $300 fixing something that $25 could fix. not the end of the world.

to j-dog, Ill reccommend the classic http://www.betteraudio.com/geolemon/newmain/battcapalt/ as a resource to determine exactly what all the E-system upgrades really do, why a deep cycle hurts dimming more than help, why SPL competitors prefer to run starting batteries to deep cycles, the advantages to capacitors, what the "big three" are, etc. would be a good supplement to accompany the discussion here.

good luck.

 
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so whitepop apparently believes a cap fixes the problem.

if you are going to spend several thousand dollars for hu, amps and speakers, why in the world would you not invest in a better altenator and battery?

 
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because by spending $85 on a die hard at sears I get a 5 year warrantee and almost as much reserve charge as two full yellowtops. How much does a yellowtop cost again?

second, every guy has his own proper fix for his particular issue. The concept here isnt electrical system health, its dimming. thats it! cure the symptoms, cure the disease. we dont care about health, we care about dimming! Lets say my goal is to play the stereo through a drive in movie at uber volume. How does an alternator help me? We taylor the upgrades to the problems, not conduct "generic system upgrades to beef up the E-system"!

your analogy with the 35 amp draw then 38 amp draw is about as silly as an explanation that can justify why powerwindows are a terrible addition to add to a car.

and lastly, when it comes to the health of the E-system. Have you ever eaten a McDonalds hamburger? can you run the mile in 6 minutes? do you consider yourself unhealthy? just because our bodies isnt the paragon of virility and long life doesnt mean we arent healthy!

discssions of alternator upgrades for this guy are not just a waste of money, its counterproductive. Go spend your money on your alternator. I'll let Jdog, too.

is this too long to read?

 
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WTF!?!?!
what the hell are you talking about........??? what does mc donalds hamburgers have to do with current draw and voltage?

and what is your experience with electronics?

your statement makes absolutely no sense.

topic too long.....yeah.....maybe......but it probably would not be if people knew what they were talking about and share the right information.

just so that i am clear on this, you believe a cap "fixes, or cures" dimming 100%?

not 95%, not 99%, but 100%.

 
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current draw, voltage, hamburgers? nothing. that was a comparison about the health of electrical systems, which has been a subject between you and pop.

my experience with electronics? doesnt matter. no person who has achieved a degree or experience or level of achievement would feel they need to back their opinions by stating such, rather than by displaying knowledge.

and, so that its absolutely clear, I will say that a cap does not *always* cure dimming. Too much empirical evidence to the contrary.

 
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ok......whatever.

 
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Rabbit, he is relating car audio to short wave radio. It's like trying to make a point to a brick wall. Let him spend money that is unnecessary when there are far less costly methods for fixing the problem. He came on here looking for an arguement, which obviously, I'm not going to give him the satisfaction of. Where's Ludlam when you need him? LoL

 
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i did not come here to look for an argument. i'm just trying to explain that a cap will not increase voltage or current from your battery or altenator. if your system dims your lights and and you put a cap on it, it will reduce the surge, not eliminate it. the surge will still be there, but not so much visible. but say your happy with that. would you think you will be able to upgrade your amps and speakers and not be back to square one?

i believe my thoughts are concerning long term effects.

just trying share my knowledge of electronics.

edit: not trying to be antagonistic, but i stated "tube radios and amplifiers", not shortwave.