new speakers
new speakers
Alright guys I just want to get your opinions. Right now I have two fosgate 12's in the trunk that I just made a custom box for. I am getting the new alpine head unit with the ipod interface box right after christmas. I was also looking at getting new speakers right after that. I'm not going to be putting these on a amp, also on the 6x9's i'm not worried about how low they hang because im about to do the diy trunk shocks and remove the springs. Also I want the door speakers to fit w/o much modification if possible. I'm not too worried about money I want something that sounds awesome. So in your opinion what is the best sounding door speakers and new 6x9's?
thanks for the help guys,
Realitycheck
thanks for the help guys,
Realitycheck
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quite similar to what I just did in a hybrid. four speakers with no amplifier, we used the avic instead though.
we ended up running a koda component set up front and tang band 6.5's in the back. it took SOME doing to get the koda midrange into the door, but it wasnt excessive. its the same modification you will have ot do for basically ANY speaker in the door. its just two minutes more cutting, and using inch thick MDF for a spacer rather than .75 inch mdf.
No matter what you will need to cut some of the door panel and install a spacer if you expect solid mid-fi sound.
Unfortunately, I almost expect the tangbands to be too deep for you (they do in fact make a 6x9 model). fortunately, if you are looking for something that sounds awesome, you might be in luck for the back. using a midbass heavy componnet set, like the adire koda component set, you might eliminate the need for rear speakers. you will have th emidbass support neccesary to match down to the subwoofers form a quality perspective.
so this is what I would recommend: I recommend a koda componet set for up front. you will need to cut away some of the door frame, I like to notch it out and hammer back the tabs to fit the motors structure in there. The spacer will need to be an inch thick, and siliconed in after screwing into the door frame. the koda will bold onto that and the door skin fits right back on. if not, trim the plastic speaker guard till it does, piece of cake.
this extra bit of work you might have to do to get the door speakers to fit will return your time investment in quality of sound; you can take back the time investment for the tweets or the rear speakers.
I would install the tweeters up high. Ideally on the a-pillars if you get surface mount cups. otherwise I would try to cram them into the sail panels. Actually, I would still try to get them as far away from my head as possible in the a-pillars anyways, but wheverver you decide to put those tweets, I would put them up high. in the hybrid, we cut holes into the door panels, and they work pretty well. the depth is awesome on the stage, but there are major phaseing issues that you could avoid by getting those tweets farther away. plus, its just less scary modifying a sail or a-pillar rather than a $150 door panel.
for the rear, I would START by pulling the rear deck off and just removing the rear speakers. nothing new, jsut removing the stock ones and leaving those gaping holes to let all that nice bass into the cabin, resistance free. I think you will be reasonably impressed by the difference it makes.
and, if later, you decide you want midbass support in the back. later, if you decide you want midrange in the back. later, if you decide you want rearfill in the back, you can THEN buy rear speakers, and only then would you have to start worrying about whether the rears will fit, etc.
but for the front? I would go with kodas for deck power, all the way.
we ended up running a koda component set up front and tang band 6.5's in the back. it took SOME doing to get the koda midrange into the door, but it wasnt excessive. its the same modification you will have ot do for basically ANY speaker in the door. its just two minutes more cutting, and using inch thick MDF for a spacer rather than .75 inch mdf.
No matter what you will need to cut some of the door panel and install a spacer if you expect solid mid-fi sound.
Unfortunately, I almost expect the tangbands to be too deep for you (they do in fact make a 6x9 model). fortunately, if you are looking for something that sounds awesome, you might be in luck for the back. using a midbass heavy componnet set, like the adire koda component set, you might eliminate the need for rear speakers. you will have th emidbass support neccesary to match down to the subwoofers form a quality perspective.
so this is what I would recommend: I recommend a koda componet set for up front. you will need to cut away some of the door frame, I like to notch it out and hammer back the tabs to fit the motors structure in there. The spacer will need to be an inch thick, and siliconed in after screwing into the door frame. the koda will bold onto that and the door skin fits right back on. if not, trim the plastic speaker guard till it does, piece of cake.
this extra bit of work you might have to do to get the door speakers to fit will return your time investment in quality of sound; you can take back the time investment for the tweets or the rear speakers.
I would install the tweeters up high. Ideally on the a-pillars if you get surface mount cups. otherwise I would try to cram them into the sail panels. Actually, I would still try to get them as far away from my head as possible in the a-pillars anyways, but wheverver you decide to put those tweets, I would put them up high. in the hybrid, we cut holes into the door panels, and they work pretty well. the depth is awesome on the stage, but there are major phaseing issues that you could avoid by getting those tweets farther away. plus, its just less scary modifying a sail or a-pillar rather than a $150 door panel.
for the rear, I would START by pulling the rear deck off and just removing the rear speakers. nothing new, jsut removing the stock ones and leaving those gaping holes to let all that nice bass into the cabin, resistance free. I think you will be reasonably impressed by the difference it makes.
and, if later, you decide you want midbass support in the back. later, if you decide you want midrange in the back. later, if you decide you want rearfill in the back, you can THEN buy rear speakers, and only then would you have to start worrying about whether the rears will fit, etc.
but for the front? I would go with kodas for deck power, all the way.
Where can I find some of these kodas? I'm kinda lost on some of the things you said. So they wont fit so you cut the panel till they will fit, and im guessing your saying that youre gonna have to make a 1 inch thick mdf ring so they will mount. How do you mount the ring? Second you're saying that with these door speakers I wont have to have any rear speakers anymore?
Well we had a guy that just had a piece of plexi done, he went to a trophy to do it though. It was of a rf logo. I gave him a link to metku.net That the guy did a cnc router of a lady.
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Rep Power: 339 you take screws (sheet metal are easiest to poke through) and simply screw the baffle to the door frame. then silicone the edges to get a perfect seal. piece of cake!
the spacer is needed to clear the window. all speakers will need this clearance. well, nearly every.
the cutting of the frame is to accomodate the physically large magnet hanging off the back of the midranges. again, the hole in the door stock is so small you are gonna have to cut anyways no matter what. well, nearly every.
find me a 7th genner with aftermarket door speakers who didnt have to cut the door panel and add a baffle at the same time, and ill show you a 7th gen civic with no rear wave separation from the midrange, a requirement to maximize speaker potential. That is the reason for neccesary hole cutting and baffle producing.
you can buy the kodas new from www.adireaudio.com, or you can try to find used sets on www.caraudioforum.com or www.elitecaraudio.com or www.soundillusions.net in the for sale forums.
with these door speakers you wont NEED rear speakers. but if you WANT em, you can still have em. im merely suggesting you can get these door speakers first, then pull out the rears and run with nothing minus large gaping holes in the rear deck, compare to stock, and decide if rear speakers are something you want or not.
the spacer is needed to clear the window. all speakers will need this clearance. well, nearly every.
the cutting of the frame is to accomodate the physically large magnet hanging off the back of the midranges. again, the hole in the door stock is so small you are gonna have to cut anyways no matter what. well, nearly every.
find me a 7th genner with aftermarket door speakers who didnt have to cut the door panel and add a baffle at the same time, and ill show you a 7th gen civic with no rear wave separation from the midrange, a requirement to maximize speaker potential. That is the reason for neccesary hole cutting and baffle producing.
you can buy the kodas new from www.adireaudio.com, or you can try to find used sets on www.caraudioforum.com or www.elitecaraudio.com or www.soundillusions.net in the for sale forums.
with these door speakers you wont NEED rear speakers. but if you WANT em, you can still have em. im merely suggesting you can get these door speakers first, then pull out the rears and run with nothing minus large gaping holes in the rear deck, compare to stock, and decide if rear speakers are something you want or not.
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Rep Power: 268 The baffle is the one inch mdf ring. It doesn't affect the sound in anyway. The distance between the window (when rolled down) and the back of the magnet is only 2 1/8th inches. Most after market speakers have magnets a much larger than 2 1/8th. So you have to have the ring in order for the speaker to fit depth wise.
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Rep Power: 339 the idea is to keep the rear wave from the front wave. Simplified, every time the speaker moves out, a wave pulses out from it. you hear that. every time it moves back, a wave pulses out towards the door skin away from the speaker. The problem is that this "backwave" is out of phase 180 degrees with the "frontwave".
try this if you ever get the chance. grab a subwoofer out of its box, although any spekaer will work, this will be very ver noticible with a subwoofer, and hook it up to power. not too loud now! youll see the basket moving like crazy, but not hear very much. now, put it face down on an enclosure, or however you want. the idea is to seperate the one wave from the other by containing it into a box. you notice the response gets MUCH louder!
this is why all subwoofers are installed in boxes.
now, speakers operate on the exact same principle. they need a "box", so to speak. this is your door. now, its realistically completley impossible t seperate 100% of the front wave from the back wave in a door speaker. but we try to minimize the effect as much as possible. one way we do this is to make sure if the rear wave DOES interact with the front wave, the sound must travel all the way down the door, through the large gaping hole where the latch is (you may have noticed big styrofoam there) and back to the front. it still cancels out with the speaker, hurting your response, but the effect is much reduced.
many kids here just stick some screws here into the door around the speakers, you could even stick your finger into the door next to the speaker and scratch the back side of the cone if you wanted! this very very easily allows the rear wave to combine with the front, and performance suffers terribly.
this is why its important to seal off the rear of the speaker as much as possible from the front.
craiger explained why the desire for no rear speakers exists. Now, some people like sound coming from behind you. Hell, some people like EXCLUSIVELY sound coming from behind you! if you like sound coming from behind, then youll want rear speakers.
however, audiophiles associate more than tonality with a well built stereo. They also incorporate what we call a "sound stage" into the mix. being able to localize instruments, voices, install speakers in such a way to render them transparent to the image, etc.
I wouldnt worry about this stuff yet, especially if merely tonality is a concern at this time!
what I would focus on fully at this time is merely sound coming from either in front of you or behind you. If you decide you want your rear passengers to have sound, or that you like rear midrange, theres nothing wrong with putting speakers back there! in a way, it makes things easier, since you will never have a "sound stage" and thus dont have to worry about imaging, staging, height, width, etc.
only if you decide your stereo sounds better with no rear speakers would you ever have to even think about thinking about staging.
thats why I reccommend front speakers FIRST, rather than only. youve got rear speakers now, it sounds like X. replace all four with just the kodas, (or whatever anyone else reccommends) and it soundslike Y. whichever you like better from a directional standpoint (rather than a tonality standpoint, the kodas will lay the stocks to waste) will determine whether you have rear speakers and/or a soundstage.
try this if you ever get the chance. grab a subwoofer out of its box, although any spekaer will work, this will be very ver noticible with a subwoofer, and hook it up to power. not too loud now! youll see the basket moving like crazy, but not hear very much. now, put it face down on an enclosure, or however you want. the idea is to seperate the one wave from the other by containing it into a box. you notice the response gets MUCH louder!
this is why all subwoofers are installed in boxes.
now, speakers operate on the exact same principle. they need a "box", so to speak. this is your door. now, its realistically completley impossible t seperate 100% of the front wave from the back wave in a door speaker. but we try to minimize the effect as much as possible. one way we do this is to make sure if the rear wave DOES interact with the front wave, the sound must travel all the way down the door, through the large gaping hole where the latch is (you may have noticed big styrofoam there) and back to the front. it still cancels out with the speaker, hurting your response, but the effect is much reduced.
many kids here just stick some screws here into the door around the speakers, you could even stick your finger into the door next to the speaker and scratch the back side of the cone if you wanted! this very very easily allows the rear wave to combine with the front, and performance suffers terribly.
this is why its important to seal off the rear of the speaker as much as possible from the front.
craiger explained why the desire for no rear speakers exists. Now, some people like sound coming from behind you. Hell, some people like EXCLUSIVELY sound coming from behind you! if you like sound coming from behind, then youll want rear speakers.
however, audiophiles associate more than tonality with a well built stereo. They also incorporate what we call a "sound stage" into the mix. being able to localize instruments, voices, install speakers in such a way to render them transparent to the image, etc.
I wouldnt worry about this stuff yet, especially if merely tonality is a concern at this time!
what I would focus on fully at this time is merely sound coming from either in front of you or behind you. If you decide you want your rear passengers to have sound, or that you like rear midrange, theres nothing wrong with putting speakers back there! in a way, it makes things easier, since you will never have a "sound stage" and thus dont have to worry about imaging, staging, height, width, etc.
only if you decide your stereo sounds better with no rear speakers would you ever have to even think about thinking about staging.
thats why I reccommend front speakers FIRST, rather than only. youve got rear speakers now, it sounds like X. replace all four with just the kodas, (or whatever anyone else reccommends) and it soundslike Y. whichever you like better from a directional standpoint (rather than a tonality standpoint, the kodas will lay the stocks to waste) will determine whether you have rear speakers and/or a soundstage.
Well first I dont know anything about creating a soundstage. I just want a better sounding system. I think I would rather have the rears so I wouldnt have to deal with a soundstage. I just would like to know what would be the best. If I install the kodas in the front what should I do for the rear?
Thanks again for all the help guys, i'd much rather get it here than some stereo shop guy thats just trying to sell me something.
Thanks again for all the help guys, i'd much rather get it here than some stereo shop guy thats just trying to sell me something.
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Rep Power: 339 for the rear, start by removing the rear speaekrs and leaving the holes - ever fold down your seats and listen to bass music? taking out the rears is like havin gyour seats permanently folded down!
AFTER you get the kodas or a solid set that you like up front and playing, THEN add rears after listening to just the kodas and your subwoofers. regardless of whether or not you care about soundstage. maybe youll like the tonality better anyways.
AFTER you get the kodas or a solid set that you like up front and playing, THEN add rears after listening to just the kodas and your subwoofers. regardless of whether or not you care about soundstage. maybe youll like the tonality better anyways.
Well I appreciate it man, gonna be looking for the best deal on the kodas now because obviously there awesome, by what you're saying. Where do you work by the way an install shop or something?
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I got a question, what would be the best way of cutting the metal of the door? Also...been looking around for some kind of instructions on cutting rings, but can't find anything thats very complete.
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Originally Posted by 2k2civic
I got a question, what would be the best way of cutting the metal of the door? Also...been looking around for some kind of instructions on cutting rings, but can't find anything thats very complete.
For cutting mdf rings, go into the DIY's section and the topic of "General". There is a DIY of fiberglassing and in there they explain how to cut MDF rings.
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Rep Power: 0 im no where near an expert like white rabbit or some of these others, but i have the infinity 6.5cs and they sound really good. I dont have the tweets in the a pillar but rather just into the door but they still sound pretty good. with an amp the are really clear and can go super loud. Plus for the price you cant beat them <$200. Ive had them for almost 2 years now and have had no problems (blown speakers. etc.) If i were to do the same thing again id probably buy these same speakers!
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Rep Power: 339 my favorite method for cutting doors is the tab method. remember pictures you drew as an elementary school kid of the sun? it was a yellow circle with lines of lightbeams radiating outward.
imagine the circle the current hole in your door. you can use a dremel, jigsaw, sawzall, oxyfuel, anything you have lying around to cut metal, I like to cut grooves into the door like those lightbeam lines, every inch or so, no need to measure or anything.
then I simply bend them back with a hammer, and presto! my door speaker hole is widedned.
imagine the circle the current hole in your door. you can use a dremel, jigsaw, sawzall, oxyfuel, anything you have lying around to cut metal, I like to cut grooves into the door like those lightbeam lines, every inch or so, no need to measure or anything.
then I simply bend them back with a hammer, and presto! my door speaker hole is widedned.
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Rep Power: 339 as per the infinities, I dont think you can go wrong with that set either. But I should say that they dont have the midbass capabilities the koda set does, so its something that would require rear speakers to support. the stock speakers on deck power would be just fine. but youll have a large frequency gap with nothing.
whats really nice about the reference set is the tweeters are much brighter than the koda set. they can go much lower in the door and still sound crisp and crystal clear.
whats really nice about the reference set is the tweeters are much brighter than the koda set. they can go much lower in the door and still sound crisp and crystal clear.
When you install the kodas or other deep speakers w/large spacers in the door, do you have to cut the door panel cover too? Basically I want to upgrade the door speakers while keeping the appearance of stock.
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Originally Posted by WhiteRabbit
...I recommend a koda componet set ...
kind of off topic...but how are the kodas compared to other components.
i just ordered a set and would like to know what to expect.
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Rep Power: 339 I dont *think* you will have to cut the door panel. I certainly dont remember cutting the doorpanel itself last time I put kodas in a 2k1 civic. if you do have to cut, itll only be that plastic ring on the inside, so you wont have to modify the look of the panel after you put the door back on.
you might have to put an extra sheet metal screw into the frame through the panel to get a firm fit though. I dont remmeber if we had to do that, either.
the kodas are one of the most midbassy sets ive ever heard. no need to AP then into a door or seal them, thats why I like them as much as I do for entry level sound quality oriented cars. they get reasonably loud off deck power. probbaly not as loud as say infinity reference, but if you install an amplifier, even if its just 40 rms, kodas would wipe the floor with the reference set, volume wise.
the tweeter is very laid back, excelent for door installs or a-pillars. if they break, the component tweeter costs $11, so we dont need to wear white padded gloves when handling the tweets.
if you bought the koda set, you should expect to get about the physically largest speaker you cna expect to reasonably easily fit into your door. you can expect the highest quality of sound in the lower ranges in that price range possible (you can do lower for cheaper, but it wont sound as good.) you can expect a tweeter that will do the job well, and you can expect a crossover that wasnt thrown together, but designed to best take advantage of the koda's disperson characteristics for a door install. If I remember correctly, online reviews say they were a set designed specifically for door installs.
only thing I dont like about the set is the surround has had some issues coming unglued from the basket. I hear they have fixed it in subsequent generations, but the first models out really need a ring or some help keeping that surround down. I used washers in the set I ran. It was ugly as hell, but if they are in the door, noone sees them anyways.
anything else I can get mroe specific on?
you might have to put an extra sheet metal screw into the frame through the panel to get a firm fit though. I dont remmeber if we had to do that, either.
the kodas are one of the most midbassy sets ive ever heard. no need to AP then into a door or seal them, thats why I like them as much as I do for entry level sound quality oriented cars. they get reasonably loud off deck power. probbaly not as loud as say infinity reference, but if you install an amplifier, even if its just 40 rms, kodas would wipe the floor with the reference set, volume wise.
the tweeter is very laid back, excelent for door installs or a-pillars. if they break, the component tweeter costs $11, so we dont need to wear white padded gloves when handling the tweets.
if you bought the koda set, you should expect to get about the physically largest speaker you cna expect to reasonably easily fit into your door. you can expect the highest quality of sound in the lower ranges in that price range possible (you can do lower for cheaper, but it wont sound as good.) you can expect a tweeter that will do the job well, and you can expect a crossover that wasnt thrown together, but designed to best take advantage of the koda's disperson characteristics for a door install. If I remember correctly, online reviews say they were a set designed specifically for door installs.
only thing I dont like about the set is the surround has had some issues coming unglued from the basket. I hear they have fixed it in subsequent generations, but the first models out really need a ring or some help keeping that surround down. I used washers in the set I ran. It was ugly as hell, but if they are in the door, noone sees them anyways.
anything else I can get mroe specific on?
