Rep Power: 267

I designing my own kick panels, I have some questions on speaker placement/angles. I'm setting up a set of JL Audio 3 way components (6.5", 4", 1") run through the JL 300/2.

I have an EX so my tweeters at the sail panel are on axis and aimed towards the center of the vehicle. I was thinking about doing the same thing with the 4" midranges in the kicks, aiming them up towards direct center of the car.

Now, in doing so, would there be sound cancellation from the midranges aiming in the same point in the car.

I'm looking for good sound quality and imaging, but I doubt I'm going to do any competions... unless everything sounds amazing.

Another question. Would it be too much to have two tweeters on axis? I was thinking about aiming the kick panel tweeters on axis, but aimed to the direct side the tweeters are. So driver side kick tweeter aimed at the driver and same for passenger side. Has anyone tried this and found the highs to be to harsh.

Thank you in advance.

 
Rep Power: 345

sounds like it will be a nice setup with the jl 3-ways. if i were you, i would disconnect your factory speakers and only use your new jl components. i think that you will get your best imaging this way.

 
Rep Power: 0

That would be way too many highs. My shop sells the JL components and those are the ones I have in my car.. Trust me, that's all you need as for as highs go because those tweeters put out plenty.
As for as phase cancellation goes, you should be fine.
Because
1. There are other sound barriers between the speakers
and
2. You don't run into phase cancellation as much with mids.. unless you're competing or just have very good ears.
If you own an Alpine deck with the Time Correction option.. that's a very nice feature if you're looking to get good imaging without doing a lot of added work, you may want to look into that.

 
Rep Power: 0

Take care of in-car acoustics will be the best without cancellation. When you put your speakers in, take note on how much boost your interior will give you, especially around upper mid-bass(200-600) region. That causes vitually no midbass heard from the car, and causes serious seperation. Passenger will definately hear "mono" sound, and driver's imaging is completely messed up. Trust me.

 
Rep Power: 0

In my Civic (I don't think yours is different), passenger side has a boost on upper midbass, and driver's side has boost on lower midbass, heard from driver's seat. Anyway, lower midbass is less noticible so I put the balance to L-2, then raise the midrange by 2dB on crossover. This way time correction(0.8ms) will work perfect. Still, waiting for my 31-band EQ.

 
Rep Power: 267

I'm going with the Alpine 9833 head unit which has a built in time correction feature. I'm hoping that will take care of the issues you raised.

I'm also looking into getting a 30 band eq. Any good suggestions?

 
Rep Power: 338

speaker angle will change instrument placement. so you wont get any cancellation if you position the speakers correctly. this is vehicle specific, even between your vehicle and mine. and they pont whereever they have to, its empirically derived, so if thats both towards the center fo the car, thats fine. if thats some crazy squewed position, thats cool too.

if you plan to TC the midbasses in teh doors to center, make sure you position the kciks TC'ed as well, you cant arrange the kicks perfect with zero TC then focus the midbass through a passive x/o after imaging, youll skew the mids and highs, too.

 
Rep Power: 0

But I guess nobody will want to place a speaker off axis too much unless distance is an issue. The high frequency roll of is so much faster than the on-axis situation, that will cause localization of farther speaker.

 
Rep Power: 338

*shrug* the midrange in my buddies car is basically facing the firewall. talk about off axis! his kickpanel is more like a passenger side footrest than a kickpanel.

he wastes me at competition, too, in every staging category.

*shrug* off axis, on axis, roll off or no, its *possible* to get that ideal sound!

 
Rep Power: 0

So he aim his mid toward the firewall? Damn......

 
Rep Power: 338

yep! and his car was amazing.

another wierd car. the guy used stock door locations, and took first in the entire state. even the judges were scratching their heads about that one.....

so its all vehicle specific!

 
Rep Power: 0

what kind of car was it that used stock door locations? Thats exactly what I want to do. Right now I have about 1ms delay difference between the left and right mids. I totaly want to eliminate the time delay while keeping the mids in the stock location and still being able to get good imaging. I'm glad someone was able to do it since it gives me hope. I know it doesn't gaurantee I will be able to do it, but at least I now know in some cars its possible.

 
Rep Power: 0

Man, I got a hole in the middle on my sound stage.....

 
Rep Power: 338

it was a 98 accord. I wouldnt expect that to ever happen again, the golden eared mafia here were scratching their heads the entire season over that one.

but I'm pretty sure he had to TC the center.

 
Rep Power: 0

Rabbit, I don't get what you mean by TC, can you explain that?

 
Rep Power: 0

PS. Never mind, just didn't get the term. Ha....
Anyway, what happens to the sonic hole in the center? How does it happen?

 
Rep Power: 0

Time correct. Basicly delay the time that the speaker(s) fire in relation to some other speaker(s). what this does is to coordinate the time the sound arives at a location so it all arives at the same time.

The only problem with time correction is ususaly it only works for one seat in the car.

 
Rep Power: 0

Seems like TC doesn't work for my car. I have no idea.....

 
Rep Power: 338

grab the seven snare drum track from the iasca disc from kazaa. itll be easier ot see if correction is helping you or not.

 
Rep Power: 0

How do you know your maturing car audio wise?

Ans: When you throw out all your Bass mechanic CDs and drive around town with the windows rolled down playing the iasca seve snare drum track.

Just a joke guys. I know you can do both

 
Rep Power: 338

whatll really blow your mind is how to get an even distribution of snare drum, rather than correcting a perfect center image and finding the three on each side bunched together.

 
Rep Power: 0

I remember in doing this, not only TC has a role, but balance also important....I really don't understand why, because balance should remain in the center. Anyway, probably is reflection or something.....

 
Rep Power: 0

One of my friends has a 2001 Cadillac DeVille and he has an Alpine deck, I don't remember what model but I noticed right away when I rode with him, the imaging sounded really bad.. but then I forgot that he had all of the TC settings so it sounded good to him..

 
Rep Power: 0

you want hard? try dual seat judging. in the higher iasca classes they judge both seats for imaging... now thats a pain in the ***

 
Rep Power: 0

by dual seat judging i think he will only get 1/2 of what he has.....
Anyway, we build our system to self pleasure, why we want to care about what imaging is for the passenger? That only creates headaches and I am not going into that....

 
Rep Power: 0

Wow, that's crazy and it does sound like a pain in the *** as you said.. I think that's just something I'll try to stay away from ha.

 
Rep Power: 0

Another thing to take into consideration is that placing your tweeters a good distance from the mid bass isn't good for imaging.

 
Rep Power: 338

*shrug* I see that all the time at competition....... the imaging characteristics are still amazing in their cars.

I would say its an effect caused more by how on or off axis a speaker is positioned at what distance from equal pathlength that would make all the difference. afterall, if the speakers are equal pathlengths, they will be 100% in phase, whether the speakers are in front of you or even behind you, much less merely high and low.

so its definitely possible with tweets up high and mids down low to get fantstic imaging, even with midbasses behind you! its all about pathlength and dispersion patterns

 
Rep Power: 0

I am not an expert but I believe this is where time correction can help too. Since basicly it can equalize the path lengths. Since the mids and tweeters will likely be at the same level for driver and passenger you could in theory delay the tweets (if they are in the a pillars they will likely be closer) and raise up the sound stage of the mids because your ear will be fooled into thinking all the sound is coming from the closest speakers.

Can anyone tell me if this is correct or is my assumption false?

 
Rep Power: 0

For awhile, I had my tweets up high in the A-Pillars near the headliner and my mids in my kickpanels.. But then I relocated the tweets in the factory location in the sail panels but I still got awesome imaging with the previous set up.