Rep Power: 528

Alright, I just got it installed and I'm pretty pissed. I have a feeling I'm going to be returning all the stuff and just eating the installation fee, but before I do that maybe you guys can help me out.

Ok, so I get in my car and turn on the stereo which is playing "Mutter" by Rammstein. It's all like BOOM BOOM BOOM. I'm all "wow, this would be cool if I listened to rap, but too bad I don't and it sounds like crap." So by the time I drive home I have a headache because every time the bass drum hits my freaking car shakes.

I determine the problem is that none of the bass lines are being produced by the speaker. I can hear highs and mids just fine, and the bass drum is shaking my car, but there's no bass lines which makes it sound really crappy. I'm tuning it with a cd that has a very full spectrum sound, and I know exactly what the songs are supposed to sound like. At best, with the frequency **** turned all the way up to allow the sub to play the biggest range of frequencies, there is a slight hint of bass line, but nothing substantial and definately not clear and brilliant like how it appears when played on a good system. Remember that I am intimately familiar with this album and i know exactly how it is supposed to sound. But that bass drum is still giving me a headache.

After 20 minutes of messing with it, I realize that CC never gave me the paper work that goes with any of the equipment I got, so I drive back to get it and talk to their guy about why it sounds like crap. He messes with it for a while and gives me some BS reasons about why it sounds bad, which I call him on, and then he admits they weren't the case. 0wned by logic.

So after talking to him for 20 minutes I ask if I can't get it to sound good if I can get my money back, and he says I have 30 days and they'll uninstall it for free and refund everything except the original installation fee, which is like $65.

So is there anything I can do to get the bassline back? Like it's literally non-existant. My music sounds very lopsided with loud and clear highs and mids and booming bass drums and nothing in betwen. Again, I'm sure this is fine for rap or for people who only care about shaking the ground beneath them, but for people who care about the quality of music it's entirely unacceptable. I'm extra pissed because they assured me it would sound good for rock/metal before I had the stuff installed.

Thanks.

 
Rep Power: 311

what is the equipment?

 
Rep Power: 0

talk to mega_hurtz

 
Rep Power: 0

I'm no expert so take this for what its worth. What you are probably trying to hear is mid bass. A subwofer is designed to play at frequencies lower than say 100Hz. Most people I know have them crossed over even lower at say 80hz. I believe the bass you want to hear is probably outside the range the sub is supposed to play well. You may have been happier getting 6x9s or something. What model sub and amplifer did they sell you?

You may be able to salvage this by having them turn down the gains in the amp for the sub so its balanced with the rest of your system and using your equalizer if you have one in the radio to up the mid bass frequencies. Hard to tell without knowing what model of equipment you have.

BTW that thing about them keeping the install charge is such a rip off. Whats to stop them from selling junk knowing they will have to remove it and just pocketing the cash and reselling the equipment they pulled out? Heck, if they were smart and they installed it with the knowledge they were going to pull it out later they could probably do uninstalls in less than 20 minutes.

 
Rep Power: 311

Whats important to know is exactly what we are dealing with. SUb type, size, box type, amp, hu. We need a breakdown of the system and then we can maybe help.

J

 
Rep Power: 329

Hate to say I told you so.

 
Rep Power: 812

I told you 12 inch subs are for rap! You listened to my 10 inch infinity and said oh it sounds so clean and then you turn around and get something completely different. They can't move as fast to play higher bass notes. The smaller the sub, the faster it can move, and the cleaner it will sound. I have my crossover set at 125Hz and it plays almost everything below that. You shouldn't have anything lower that 80Hz playing from the regular speakers if you have a decent sub. Go look up your specs for the sub online. I bet you'll be surprised.

 
Rep Power: 812

Yeah all that good info popcornplaya gave you pretty much ignored. Just take it all back since there's no way to "fix" the sub.

 
Rep Power: 329

No it can be fixed. Those subs are for ghetto bass. Trunk rattling, not sound quality. You can fix it, it's just gonna take some time and money.

 
Rep Power: 329

Oh, and for the record, a lot of people told him to get a 10, and to get a sub designed for SQ as opposed to SPL, because that appealed to his music tastes. I believe we also told him that they will not sound the same in the car as they do in the store. But what do we know?

 
Rep Power: 812

Well he actually listened to my 10 sub in the car and said it sounds exactly like he wants it to. So whatever. I did what I could.

 
Rep Power: 786

Your speakers aren't playing midbass apparently... do you have an amp for your front and rear speakers or perhaps a crossover for them somewhere (perhaps in your deck)?

 
Rep Power: 323

it sounds like there is a crossover affecting his sound.....

 
Rep Power: 311

aww man. You bought a 12" sub and you're looking for your mid-bass? Bad news you ain't gonna find it. Especially not if you bought it from CC b/c I'm sure they don't sell tighter-than-avg 12s like solobarics or Bostons. ANyway, if you are intent, you could try
A slightly smaller box.
Taking out any polyfill that might be in the box
Switching to sealed if you've got a ported box
Getting better 6" Drivers to play your mid bass
Better control or more power to your 6"

If you are looking for something SQ and you feel "intimate" enough with your music that you want to hear each stage seperately, you should look into a 3 way setup for the fronts - damn I miss my boston 6-5-3s. Good luck man. Oh and bTW, just a small thing to do, make sure the box is firing directly into the car and not toward the license plate - that'll tighten it up a tiny bit too.

Jason

Other than that

 
Rep Power: 812

Lol. Just to clear things up, he has the stock deck and new pioneer door and rear speakers. And now the sub. So all he has is bass/treble adjustments. My speakers are amped and still don't play midbass very well. That's what the sub is for

 
Rep Power: 329

No, subs are for low frequencies. The mid bass should be covered by a good midbass woofer, usually found in the form of a good set of components, or possibly a seperate midbass driver(s). Amplification is also pretty much a must for aftermarket speakers. If you're going to run them off of the deck, there's really no point in replacing them. The stocks will sound just as good ran off the deck. You're not going to get optimal performance out of deck powered aftermarket replacements. They're made to operate in a certain power range, usually(99.9% of the time) higher than the max watts you're gonna get off of a deck (usually around 12-23). Amplification is practically a must for aftermarket components/2-3ways, in order for them to perform in a beneficial manner.

 
Rep Power: 330

i wouldn't say it's impossible to get a 12" sub to perform like a 10" one could, but it would be tough to find one at CCity that would. or at least tough for them to tune it that way.

this is a website where many of us try to make 4 cylinder cars move like they have an engine bigger than they actually are. size isn't all that matters

 
Rep Power: 812

Just go back and get a 10 inch baja sub with profile amp. I bet it would sound better

 
Rep Power: 528

I heard the same 12" subs at Tweeter and they sounded awesome. That's why I decided to get them.

Right now I have it sounding *better*, but still not awesome. I have the gain on the amp at like 10%, the frequency all the way up, and the bass boost at like 5-10% (it was pretty dark so I couldn't see that well, haha). If I turn the bass on the deck up then it sounds a bit better by brining out some of the midbass (I guess?) in the rear speakers.

I just have Pioneers in the front. I'm still stock in the back.

I have 30 days to return it so I guess I'll play around with it for a week or so.

The frequency range on my sub is 26-1,000Hz.

I have a sedan so I have 6.5"s all around. Do they make 6.5"s that have good bass? I know 6x9s can sound good but only sedans have those in the back.

 
Rep Power: 812

I can turn up my eq and the 6.5 speakers will thump pretty good, but they can't really produce the lower frequencies that well. On alot of songs, you can't even tell there's low bass cause the speakers can't play that low. You shouldn't be using speakers for low bass tho. Usually 80Hz is a good cutoff for speakers. I took out my sub for a few days and could not live without it. Even with an amp, you're gonna have a hard time tryin to get by without a sub. Check your specs. I'm curious to see what the "in car" response is if they list it for the type-e.

 
Rep Power: 528

My subs and their specs are here.

 
Rep Power: 329

The sub in the store will sound different than in a car. When shopping, if you're at a store, ask them if they have the speakers in a vehicle, or have access to one. Try to find something as close to your vehicle as possilbe for your comparison as to how it will sound in there. Good 6.5's with good midbass response? Budget version: Adire Koda's

 
Rep Power: 347

On your amplifier, you said that you have the frequency turned all the way up. Is that the crossover? I'm not sure exactly how your amp is set up, but try this: set your amp to LPF, then turn the **** to around 80hz, not all the way up. Did you end up with the 1 cu. ft box? Which amp did you get? I think maybe the subwoofer is just overpowering the fronts, which you seem to have adjusted with your gains. hmm.

 
Rep Power: 812

I was looking for specs like a graph comparing response in and out of car. Guess they don't have one. What amp are you running, and how many rms watts are pushing the sub? Maybe you're underpowering it?

 
Rep Power: 311

It would be very helpful to know what volume the box is. Its becoming clear what the problem is. It sounds to me like you've heard a pretty well staged car with good imaging before, and now your a SQ type of guy. First off, I'm assuming you've got coaxial speakers in the front because of the stock deck. You'll never get imaging from coaxials. 2nd, you asked if 6.5" will give good midbass. The answer is yes - if they are components. In fact, better than 6x9s will. The reason for this is because, unless you are taking about a pair of component 6x9s - a rare bird, 6.5" components allow to seperate the proper frequencies and direct them to the proper type of speaker, IE highs to the tweets and lows to the woofer. Allowing each speaker to play only the frequency range it is best capable of, along with the placement and timing of the speakers will give you imaging. You ever notice that in some songs like ummm, rage against the machine - people of the sun, the guitar starts first in your right side speaker and then the vocals come through on your left side? Well, the same is true for most songs where some parts play through your tweets and others through your midrange woofers. Anyway, your alpine sub is plenty capable of playing tight, quick bass lines from rock songs. It would be better suited as Gearbox pointed out to you to be a 10. Hell, if ALL you listen to is rock, you should have gone for 4 8s. But if you'd like to keep what you've got, you can. Just get yourself a better "front stage" which is where you should be looking for you mids. Go for components and good ones at that. Nix the stock HU, that won't allow enough control to tune the sound worth anything. If you'd like to test your woofers ability to play mids, get a hold of the Madonna Imaculate Collection CD and play "like a virgin." Through a spectrum analyzer, you can see that the song plays nothing under 120mhz - strictly mids and highs. Good luck.

J

 
Rep Power: 528

The box is 1 ft^3. Alpine recommends .8-1.7 ft^3, and the guy at the store recommended this box.

My 6.5"s in the front have seperate mid and tweeter on top of the 6.5" speaker. So they have seperation of sound, and good sounding mids and highs, but they still have no bass.

Right now I've got it sounding decent, but I've literally got the bass levels so low on the amp that I feel like I'm using the sub to about 4% of it's capacity. I mean if it sounds good it doesn't matter what the settings are, but I feel like if I could get some good CLEAR bassy rears I wouldn't need the sub at all. I was listening to Dream Theater on the way to work today and it was sounding pretty good, and then a double bass drum roll started and it was pretty intense, but at least my trunk isn't shaking anymore.

Maybe a sub isn't what I need. But I have a sub setup for my computer audio and it sounds so awesome. Metal, techno, even rap sounds awesome through it so I assumed a sub was what I needed.

Hmm...

 
Rep Power: 311

Sounds like you would be in heaven with a couple of JL Audio 8W3 V2s in your rear deck. Or even an 8W7 in the trunk. Tight, fast-triggering, higher-range subs. Definitely look into making sure there is no polyfill in the box. You may want to ask the guy who did the install if he can make your box appear smaller to the woofer, that might help a little. How much effort/money do you wan't to put into this? Maybe a custom encloure on the underside of your rear deck with two JL Audio 6W0s in it would perfect your sound. The 6W0 is NOT a door speaker. It is a SUBWOOFER, only its small, tight and extremely rapid. Good for like, triggered drum beats and such.

 
Rep Power: 311

You know, It just occured to me what I think your problem is. The factory headunit. Because you do not have control over your sub level through your deck, you have to adjust the bass evenly between you subs and you speakers. In your case, you would normally turn the speaker bass up (since it normally refers to mid-bass on components) and the sub level down (since you aren't looking for sonic booms associated w/ 12s and rap music). With a good deck, you would be able to tune your system to what I think your looking for. With a really good deck you'd be able to delay the subs firing, in order to priority the mids slightly. BTW, what amp are you using.

 
Rep Power: 528

My amp is an MTX putting out 300 rms. Actually I think it's 150 x 2 but it's bridged. The subs are 200rms, but I don't even turn it up to 10%.

I just went to Tweeter to listen to some component speakers for the rear. I said "I would like some rear speakers that have good bass." He said all their speakers are crossed over so that the subs handle all the bass so even if he turns the subs off I can't hear bass from the speakers. I said "booooo."

But, I finally got my sub sounding decent. I'm not even using it to 10% of it's capacity, but all I wanted a sub for anyway was to fill in the lows that were missing from my speakers. I don't want it to bump, and I don't want bass at the extent of losing everything else. I had it sounding pretty decent and my friend got in my car and was like "dude you need to turn that bass up," so he played around with it and it sounded so shitty and he's like "dude that sounds awesome." Different strokes for different folks.

I think I may exchange my sub for a 10, tho. I dunno. I'm still looking.

At Tweeter they had a $1000 pair of Boston (I think) components. I was like .

 
Rep Power: 812

You have alot of problems.

1) You somehow bought an amp with WAY too much power. My infinity can handle 250wrms and it's only getting 125rms from the amp. I could bridge it to get double, but that's too much anyway.

2) You NEED a new deck. The stock one doesn't have any kind of adjustments for sound quality or separate eq for speakers and bass. It also doesn't have hi-volt rca preouts. A good deck can be had for a couple hundred and can do 10x more than stock.

3) You got a 12 sub even tho you will never listen to rap music. After hearing your type of music at the meet, I'd say you would've been happier with an 8 inch or two of em. Don't keep the 12. You'll never be happy with it and it's the wrong sub for your music. You say you like your computer sub, well that's prolly no bigger than an 8 or maybe 10. It can play punchy, tight bass at higher frequencies much better.

Forget about rear speakers. They will never give you the volume of bass you're looking for. I can make my 6.5s play some high bass, but it's still not that loud even when amped and surrounded with dynamat. My friend has a single 8 inch in his truck and that thing really sounds nice. It's can't play boomy deep bass at all, but for everything else it's perfect. It thumps hard but not the low bass that gives you a headache.