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Since I don't know about this, I'll tell you what I'm looking for and you can make suggestions.

1. I want to be able to produce low, clean, resonant tones more than I want that poppy crackly hip-hop sound. I listen to primarily techno and metal (real, progressive metal from Europe. Not the radio nu-metal crap that's popular here in America. It's pretty full spectrum music as far as frequency goes... think of the intricacies of classical music and you'll know what I mean. You would literally be missing parts of the music on poor quality speakers). High schoolers at Circuit City and Best Buy assume that because I want a sub I must want to "bump it like a thug." I don't know if speaker selection affects this at all, so you can tell me.

edit - from reading a lot of reviews on other boards I get the impression that people think that rap bass is somehow harder for a speaker to produce than non-rap bass. People will say things like "this is good for techno but can't produce rap bass." At any rate, what determines how low of a tone a speaker can produce? I listen to rap occasionally and I don't want it to not be able to handle it.

2. I want it to be loud and sound good in my car, but I don't care about shaking the road beneath me nor do I care about "impressing" people outside of my car.

3. I don't want the lowest tones to fade out because the speaker can't produce them.

Ok, so what size and how many watts should I be looking at? What's the difference between a regular box and one of those plexiglass front boxes? Vented vs. not vented?

Oh, and I don't want to spend any more than I have to. I'd like to keep it at no more than $400 for the sub and amp including installation.

Thanks

What about this sub+amp unit by Infinity? They're a good company, right? I was able to turn it up and make it distort in the store today, but isn't it a lot louder in the car so I might not need to turn it up as much? It seems like nearly everyone who reviewed this product has a hatch or truck. wtf?

 
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For that much, I'd look into getting a nice sub and amp combination, you can get those on eBay for about $200 plus shipping.

I don't think too much power is necessary in your case. What do you have for your highs up front? How much space are you willing to give up for the sub and amp?

I'd personally like to reccommend an Adire Audio Shiva in a 1.8 ft^3 sealed box with just 150-300 watts. I think it would be more than loud enough, and $125 for the driver, $50 for a box (?), $150 for an amp and another $50 for wires would be under your budget. I don't know exactly about installation though.I hear the Image Dynamics line of subs hit just as low, with less space requirements. I have a Shiva and I think it sounds really nice. It plays frequencies lower much better than my old sub, ones I didn't know existed and blends well with my other speakers. I only have about 150 watts RMS going to it and it plays much louder than I need.

A vented Shiva would take way too much space, for me atleast.

Edit I don't exactly know what "rap bass" is, but it seems like most rap has a lot of long especially low notes that would be more difficult for a sub to reproduce.

 
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If you want a decent amount of bass that will really sound loud when you want it to, 500wrms is a good amount. If you want brain rattling amounts of bass that will wake the dead, 1000 should be sufficient

 
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As long as it is producing actual notes and not just making noise for the sake of making noise.

What do I need to look for? What are the fundamental differences between a sub that can produce good sounding notes and a bumpity-bump-bump-sounds-like-**** sub?

Also, I'm still running the stock deck and I have some Pioneer speakers in the front (that sound awesome except have less bass than stock ) and stock speakers in the back. At this point I have no intention of upgrading the stock deck nor of running an amp through the 4 speakers.

 
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btw, on car audio forums I hear people talk about sq and spl. What are those?

 
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We need to talk ALOT at the meet about this stuff. I'll answer all your questions then.

 
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^ Dude I'm not sure I'm going to be able to make it.

Do subs have seperate volume controls? Or do amps? Since my stock deck doesn't have a seperate sub output I need to make sure the sub doesn't blow everything else away.

 
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Bah okay. It seems like you want something similar to what I have. Right now I'm running a single infinity 10 inch sub. The amp was originally running two, but that was just too much. I think the one sub will be PLENTY for you, even if you wanna bump it. Don't know exactly what the amp is pushing, but the sub accepts 225w rms I think. It's probably getting 1/2 that at least. I have a sub control on the deck to turn it on/off and adjust level, but the amp running it also has a separate remote **** that's mounted up front. It's centered around 40Hz (average sub bass notes), so I just play with that for the volume.

An aftermarket deck will make life alot easier in terms of connections and adjustments. The stock deck is just so simple. You want a good one with some decent eq tuning and RCA preouts to hook up the amp.

A 10 inch sub will produce actual bass notes. Since it's smaller, the bass will be tighter and more defined. It even gives good deep bass as well for the occasional rap music. My amp is an MTX maybe pushing 125 w rms and it pounds the sub. I could bump it up to double that, but imo it sounds loud enough now.

A layer of dynamat on the front doors will help sound quality of those new speakers alot. Also tweeters are great, especially if you get a sub. They will help raise the soundstage. Helps to amp the speakers as well...I've got 40wrms to each of mine instead of the stock 12w. Makes them sound cleaner and louder.

I think first you should get a better deck. There are alot to choose from and many are pretty cheap for what you get. Then get a sub in a sealed box with amp, then maybe a speaker amp and some tweeters.

 
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amps have a **** for "volume" called gain. 50-100W can be enough for a sub in some cases. all depends on speaker. JL W0, or W3 for example, hardly need anything. shivas or ID subs are fairly low power as well.

sq is sound quality. what you want. spl is sound pressure level, or loudness. what you want a little of.

the box will make the sub. sealed would be the best choice for an even response while sacrificing a little spl. what it's made of (fiberglass, wood, plexi) matters little. size of box is what matters.

 
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Thanks. You said everything I was too lazy to type.

 
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i've personally never been happy with 10" subs for very long. they never hit the really low notes. i tried a 10" type r in a medium box, but it bottomed out to easy. so i switched to 2 shivas and have never been happier (i do like loud bass too, thats why i went with 2). i ran infinity reference 10's too and they were good for the $ but not really impressive to me. i can recommend both adire and ID, JL's always seem to be a dollar well spent. sooo many choices though, i'm just throwing out main ones.

 
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my first setup was 2 12s, 90w rms each didnt sound too bad.. if it was me, i'd get a 10 like gearbox said prolly around 200-300w rms, a JLw3v2 will sound good w/ about 300+ my friend had a w3v2 12" and I think he ran about 400w rms, it sounded great! I'd get a 10" w3v2 and give it its rms, which is 300 on the 12, im not sure on the 10, JL makes their own boxes too, ProWedge and I forget the name of the other one, i'd just get that, and a nice amp for it, might aswell complete it and get jl sub in a jl box and a jl amp, 300/1.. 300w rms.. thats what i'd do if I didnt want a ton of bass..

EDIT: although I have always gone with 12s, maybe you'd want a 12..

 
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I tend to agree with Ed on this one. The Shiva will do what you want at a fraction of the cost of some of the other, mainstream branded, drivers. Another option I like for SQ (sound quality) applications is a single 10 driver such as a JL W6v2, but the driver alone would put you over your budget. Another, non-mainstream branded, opition that sounds great in a sq application is an Image Dynamics IDQ10v2. Those require little power as well, yet also work phenominal in a small enclosure. I personally have 2 of these drivers on the way, which I will be running off of a JL 500/1. But, for your application, again price gets in the way of this amp. You'll want to look for a cheaper alternative that puts out clean sound. An option here would be a JBL BP power series amp (also an option with the Shiva). Either of those two subs would perform in the manner you are looking for. Get the box built for the sub, don't just go buy one off the shelf with generic measurements.

 
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What does "bottom out" on a sub mean?

Gearbox how much did you spend?

If I go to the meet can I bring some CD's and try them in your car?

 
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For sure man. I'll show you how everything works and how to install.

I paid alot because I was stupid buying stuff at the store and not installing myself at first. Each amp was around $200-$250, sub was $100m box was $60, wire kits were around $200, deck was $540, dynamat was $450...I think everything brought the total to around $2000. It should not have cost anywhere near that amount. I finally realized I was getting screwed and did the speaker amp and tweeter install myself. Also did most of the dynamat in trunk and doors. I paid circuit city like $850 to install two subs and an amp. I don't know what I was thinking. I've since redone everything, and it looks alot better too!

 
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Bottom out means the sub moves out of it's x-max (or maximum excursion movement). Basically sounds like distortion, because the speaker is moving too far. Hard to explain except it can destroy the speaker.

 
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my wife gets by with a single 10 and 300 watts..i can hear her pull in to the driveway...and thats with everything else stock and an LOC

 
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I have this .mp3 called "subwoofer excursion test" that basically just gets lower and lower and lower until I can't hear it anymore (on my computer's subwoofer). Is that what that is?

 
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No. Yours is a test of all the frequencies (notes) the sub can play. So it pronbably starts with tight bass around 100Hx and moves down to 20Hz boomy low bass.

Bottoming out occurs when you hook an amp, turn the gain way up, and turn the deck power up until distortion occurs and the sub sounds like crap just before blowing up

 
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Yes, that makes more sense then.

I've heard that crap noise before. Doesn't that apply to all speakers tho, and not just subs?

 
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You paid that much for how much Dynamat? I got 100 sq ft. of Fatmat for under a hundred bucks shipped, it's the same thing, it just doesn't say dynamat.

 
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Where are some good stores I can go look at and listen to these subs at besides Circuit City and Best Buy? Tweeter? Gimme ideas I want to go sub shopping this weekend. Thanks.

 
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bump.

 
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Lol. Circuit city is good with their room, but it won't sound like that in the car. Go to some small custom shops just to listen. They have some stuff the big stores won't. Don't know around your area, but just check the phone book.

 
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Generally speaking, what's the difference in sound between the room at the store and when it's actually in your trunk?

 
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Sounds alot better in the car. With dynamat, my single 10 almost sounds like when I had two back there.

 
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Plus the range is different. I have the specs and the frequency range in car is good from 20-100Hz generally.

 
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I have two 15" comp vr's in a 6 cube box getting 1100 watts rms and it isn't enough for me. i would say 1000 rms at least for daily driving set up. i am going to try and get another amp so i have 2200 rms and get two 18" comp vr's or two 15" l7's. I'll let you knwo if it is loud.