speedy25

I saw a couple of other older threads on here and figured bringing them back from the dead wasnt the right way to do it.

AC was working fine until last week.

Static pressure is typical based on what has been posted before.

Fuses/relays inspected and nothing out of ordinary found.

Connector by the valve cover has THREE red wires. I can see a green and a red coming out the bottom. Since I dont have a wiring diagram I dont know which is which to power up to test the clutch. Anyone know which one is the right one?

TIA,

-SP

ezone

2 wires are for the thermal protector.
1 is for the clutch.

ezone

This isn't an SI, is it?
I'm assuming it's a regular Civic for this and the other post about the belt.


Turn the AC on with the engine running: Do the radiator fans run or not? This is important.
If the fans run, then the system is trying to run the compressor too. Look for relay, clutch, and wiring issues.
If no fans, then look for low pressure, and stuff like that.


3 red wires, the clutch wire is connected to either blu/red or red/wht, according to my diagram.


Thermal protector colors are labeled as either blu or red/blk for one, and blu/wht or grn/red for the other.

HTH

speedy25

NOT an Si. Havent found any other evidence of a lettered model,

Yes, fans come on like they should. The only thing missing is the clutch engaging. I havent gotten out my multimeter yet. Thanks ezone for giving me some color guidance.

Can anyone post a wiring diagram?

-SP

ezone

I can't hotlink my info.

I would start checks at the clutch relay in the underhood fusebox.

Use a test light to check the 4 terminals with the system ON. You should find 2 hots and 2 grounds with the relay removed. If you have that, then find an identical 4 pin relay to swap for a test.

speedy25

Update: Did some checking today and thought I would share info in case anyone else needed it.

The center wire of the three wire connector on the alternator is the one going to the compressor clutch. I tried powering it with no action. Shortly after that I heard a strange noise from the engine compartment. I watched until it came back and saw that the noise was from the compressor. Looks like the compressor bearing is failing and took out the clutch coil.

I'll deal with that on another day!

-SP

devcivic87

I am having AC issues on my 06 civic hybrid... leave it to fail on the hottest day of the year (104!!). I was driving home from work, a good 25 minute drive, hoping it would kick in but still no luck. Hot air comes out. When I got home I turned the car off and googled for some answers then decided to come on here. Went to start the car to listen for the fans to kick in and didnt hear anything. I dont know much about cars and Im praying this isnt an expensive fix.

ezone

Here's an easy thing: Does the blower fan work? If the inside fan doesn't run, the AC system is shut down as a fail-safe. But if the inside fan DOES run, ignore this.



Fans not running (I assume you mean the radiator and condensor fans), could be out of freon. (Look in through the openings in the front bumper, see if there is any rock damage to the condensor.)
Could be a bad thermal protector. Could be many other things too.

BUT
The FIRST thing you need to know is that the AC in a hybrid is a VERY $pecial $ystem.

You got orange cables running down to the AC compressor? Yeah.
You MUST go to a dealer (unless you have a Honda specialist shop that has spent an assload of money on equipment for these cars.)

It may not be cheap, but it will become ungodly expensive if some clown does the wrong things to your car.

Don't say I didn't warn you.

"Hear me now, believe me later."

Service procedures that would be OK for 99% of other cars on the road are extremely dangerous if done on a Hybrid. (High Voltage warnings all over this!) The oil inside the Hybrid system is very special. Contamination from the wrong AC machines can ruin a lot of stuff, and is an electrocution hazard.

STAY AWAY from Joe Blow Knuckledragger and DangerZone.
Go to a Honda dealer.
-----------------------------------------------

Any codes?
Any IMA codes?
Any Body codes?
Any HVAC codes?

90% of diagnostics begin with the HDS scanner, and freon inspection and charging must be done with a special machine designed to handle the oils involved.

Go to a dealer.
Hopefully a dealership with a great reputation.
Hopefully a dealer that employs at least one rocket scientist. Insist that the rocket scientist does the work. (You really don't want an oil change flunky doing this work on a Hybrid!)

devcivic87

It pumps out air, just hot air. Not as powerful. I'll have the fan speed on almost max (two ticks away) and it isnt blasting like normal.

I had a feeling this would be an intense process... transmission shops like AAMCO wouldnt even do a "check engine light" scan on a previous repair. Its like its taboo. Ugh. Yay for 40mpg, $%^&* for everything else.

If it just needs freon, is that something we would still have to see a dealer for? I mean, I have done oil changes and a CVT fluid flush on her, so if its something relatively simple I would be more than happy to do it myself!

ezone

Short answer, yes. Dealer only.
Especially since you say "I dont know much about cars and Im praying this isnt an expensive fix. " (Those are mutually exclusive, BTW.)

From an owners manual:
"Unless you have the knowledge and
proper equipment, you should have
this maintenance done by a skilled
technician."

Nobody (but a dealer, AFAIK) can get the correct oil to DIY this; and if your dealer is like mine, a tech that knows what is going on has to point out exactly what they need to the parts department, because the parts people don't have a clue either. They just sell the parts, they don''t fix the cars.

The oil that the system requires is the problem.
Normal PAG oils (and all the others) are taboo.

Your hybrid uses Sanden SE-10-Y oil in the AC system. Made JUST for this system.

The freon is the same though.
Freon carries the oil, circulates it throughout the system as it operates, and someone charging it from an ordinary machine will contaminate the system just like a can of freon from WallyWorld and AutoZone that has oil or sealer in it will contaminate the system.





The hybrid compressor is driven not only by the conventional accessory belt, it also has a high voltage electric motor built into it.

The electric motor has high voltage parts exposed internally, this is the entire reason for all the special procedures.

Regular AC oils can be electrically conductive.

The special oil for the hybrid compressor is non-conductive.

Therefore, improper service procedures presents an electrocution hazard.

It could turn the entire system (and the whole car) into a huge exposed wire.
Ever done this?



High voltage AC current (household type) will throw you away from it.
High voltage DC current (automotive) will grab you and NOT LET GO.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ok, I can't say you absolutely cannot do it, but I strongly discourage you trying to do it.
YOU will need to assume ALL risks and be liable for any problems.
If you don't know what you are doing, then you probably have no business opening the hood. Not for this part of this car.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, an individual could add plain R-134a refrigerant, without any oils or sealant to the system, in the usual manner. Most little cans of freon already contain some oil, and you are SOL if that is all you can get.

First step is to see what the pressure in the system is. Connect the (clean) pressure gauge to the low side port (key OFF), and see what the pressure is (static pressure).
*If the static pressure reading is higher than the ambient temperature reading, then start the engine and run the AC, see what the pressure drops to.
*If the static pressure reading is much lower than ambient temperature, the system is low or empty.

If the system lost its freon, then it has a leak that needs addressed properly (I mean replacing the leaking parts, NO sealers), and that special oil is lost when there are leaks.
Running the system low on oil can ruin the compressor. Dealer only for that special oil.

Follow AC lines and pipes, look for wet spots. Look for rock dents in the condensor. Fix it right.
You could give a shot of freon into an empty system and listen for hissing (rapid leak), or use soapy water to look for bubbles on a slow leak.


Remember: There are MANY other reasons an AC system can stop cooling. Not all causes are related to lack of freon.

Chances are good that many people will waste more money trying to DIY this than it would cost to do it the correct way in the first place. Especially if the whole situation turns sour...






**Personal opinion**
I'm not real happy that Honda let this particular system into the general population, they didn't think this through very well.

HTH

devcivic87

Thanks, ezone, for all of your help. It looks like I will head to the service dept first thing monday morning, before temps get above 90 degrees. I definitely would rather pay $100 than screw it up and have to pay three times that. I am very good to my car, and I think for an 06 it is in superb condition. I only drive it on the highway to work and a bit in town on the weekends, never near rocky roads or crap like that, so my guess is that it just needs a recharge and doesnt have a leak, but I will never know unless I see a pro. Thanks again!

ezone

I definitely would rather pay $100 than screw it up and have to pay three times that.

You can probably change those numbers to $100 to stare at it, $300-500 to actually DO anything, and $1000-$3000 to screw it up.
That's just a guess, based on shop rates where I work.

my guess is that it just needs a recharge and doesnt have a leak,

Your statement is impossible from a logical and experienced standpoint, this cannot happen....The ONLY way any AC system would EVER need a "recharge" is from leakage (barring other actual work done). Freon does not "wear out" or "go bad".
It is safe for me to know that you shouldn't touch it.

There are still a hundred other possible causes for it to quit.

I just hope that your dealer has someone smart and capable. Not all places believe in employing top shelf talent.
Please feel free to request their smartest tech to work on it.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

+1 for going to a dealer. they are the only ones trained to work on hybrids.

devcivic87

Spoke with both Honda dealers in the area today, both said it being a Hybrid makes no difference...soo....confused here

When I push the AC button nothing kicks on. The Condenser fans seem to be running but the radiator ones do not. Let the car sit in the driveway with AC engaged and they still didnt kick on. Its 85+ here even at 8:30pm, shouldnt the car be warmed up by now?

ezone

WHAT makes no difference? Both are dealers, therefore both should have the equipment to work on it.


ALSO: The people answering phones have NO CLUE what actually goes on behind "the magic door" to the shop. Trust me on this. Their entire job is to get your sorry butt in their doors and lighten your wallet.
The only ones that know what goes on in the shop are the people that actually work in the shop. Even then, only the smartest ones pay any attention.



This is to be expected.
You haven't been to the dealer yet.
The AC still hasn't been fixed.
Wishing isn't going to get it fixed.



Except for this part, makes little sense:
Do you not know what is which, nor what is going on?
What are you calling a condensor fan?
What are you calling a radiator fan?
Do you know how long it takes before the fans run from engine heat alone?

devcivic87

Is there anyone on this site that can reply to me without making me sound like an idiot? Anyone? Bueller?

Seriously, dude... You can drop the cynicism and sarcastic remarks. We are all adults here, I presume.

"This is to be expected.." Really? Do you know me THAT well?

The person I spoke with at Honda was the service department manager. Again, I am not an idiot. I asked him specifically if being a Hybrid would make a difference. He personally has worked on my car.

Again, I will not reply to this thread if you continue to act like a child. This is an information forum, not a lets-bash-the-newbies forum...or so I thought.

ezone

Ok, so ignore the snide comments.
Read between the lines.






Did you get the AC fixed then? I assumed you didn't, based on the line that was quoted above.

Since the AC can't turn the condensor and radiator fans on, the engine compartment fan(s) shouldn't run at all until the coolant temps are high enough to trigger them.
If only one of the fans is running (low speed operation), it can keep the radiator plenty cool @ 85F ambient with no load on the engine. No need for both fans to run if they are not needed.
A hybrid can operate the fans independently if needed, not the same as the regular Civics.

The fan in front of the trans is the radiator fan.
The fan in front of the engine is the condensor fan.


I'd like to know what was going through his head when he gave that answer, and what exactly he meant by it. They are different from the regular systems, but a dealership is supposed to be equipped for all of it.
If he truly thinks it is exactly the same as a regular AC system, then he might be the one to watch out for.

Better?

devcivic87

ezone, out of curiosity what should the high/low pressures be if I were to run a pressure test?

obviously I havent been able to get my AC fixed. Life kinda got in the way.