MarkoPollo

So I’m in the process of undergoing a head gasket job and I figure that it might be a great time to upgrade my cam shaft to the Crower Stage 1. I’ve read some decent review and although things are a little tight financially I decide that this is an opportunity I should try to make the most of.

On Friday Aug 5th I take a look on eBay and find one for approximately $352. I decide to call Crower to ensure that the part number will fit my application. During the call I get convinced to purchase straight from Crower because the gentleman (Frank) on the line stated that there are some copies circulating and if I get it straight from them it will come with paperwork and I can be assured its legit. Fair enough at $347 with free shipping.

I ask if it will be able to make it to Washington State by Wednesday at 10:00am as my appointment to service the gasket was Wednesday morning. The fellow states that if I send my billing information to his email he will get a tech to start it that day (Friday) and would finish it Monday and it would go out shortly after.

He further states that they will upgrade it to 2 day shipping to ensure that it will reach me on time. Normally all orders over $150 include complementary shipping but this would be a special exception. I stated that I’m active on the forums here and that I would certainly plug them if I see good gains.

To make a long story short, I call Monday (Aug 8th) afternoon to get the tracking information. Frank states that it unfortunately didn’t make it out but that it would ship out first thing on Tuesday and that it would make it to me because they would use overnight shipping. I was skeptical.

I call Tuesday and they stat that it's ready to go out. I ask if it's going to make it and I'm assured, yes.

I received the tracking information in my email Tuesday night. It was picked up from Crower at 4:59 in the pm. As it did not make it to me by the noon deadline today (Wednesday) I left instructions to refuse the shipment so that it would be sent back to Crower. UPS tried to deliver it at 3:47 pm.

Well Crower, if I would have went through eBay and not you guys I’d be on my way to a decent build on my D17A2. Swapping the cams would have cost me $30 extra in labour during this head re-build. But because I didn’t get the part on time I’m kinda stuck here, it’s not going to be worth it to me to do this at a later time.

Pretty disappointing. Crower as a company gets a big thumbs down from me. Not sure about their product, and frankly I probably never will after this. My *** is really chapped. A simple lesson for running a successful business...

DON'T MAKE PROMISES YOU CAN'T DELIVER ON.

Part Number: 63461
Honda Camshaft D17A2 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 EX Veloz Coupe Si
Honda / Acura - D17A2
Performance level - Stage 1 - Normally Aspirated - Daily Driver Stock idle, excellent street manners. Works with stock valve train.
INT/EXH - Dur @ .050” Lift: 188°/180° RR: 1.70046082949309/1.9 Gross Lift: .369”/.361” LSA: 114° RPM: Idle to 7000 Redline: 7500

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

too many companies have "fast-talkers" who make unfounded promises just to get the sale.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

This kinda stuff happens... I've realized not to make the appointment until all the necessary parts are in my hand Not saying they didn't mess up, but you could have prevented it too unless you were on a huge time crunch to change your gasket. (If you were I understand, but you could have ordered it earlier). I have this opinion because here in Canada it takes weeks at best to get these parts and I've already learned my lesson

MindBomber

If you can't keep a promise - don't make it.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

the only place i really can count on is the local dealer here. they can usually overnight any part and have it ready the next day. sometimes 2 days but that is pretty rare. they even went so far as driving to the local tirerack warehouse to get my tires so they could install everything together. you pay a bit more, but in a pinch you know its an option if you dont like waiting 2 weeks or more with majestic. there are some good ebay companies too but overall i wouldnt count on having stuff in such short notice. usually never works out how you want it.

MarkoPollo

Yeah I actually live in Canada too. I drove down to the States today and waited like a fool and my shippers for it to come in. Then I had to cross back into Canada and explain how I went down to recieve merchandise but that it never came obviously sounding fishy.

Let's just say it's a "crunch" situation. Anytime the head is involved and there is a chance to warp your engine, it's a crunch silly. Kinda like driving with a axle that's getting ready to bust loose. Ticking time bomb.

The fact of the matter is that there was a cam on eBay that was good to go Friday and Crower talked me into buying directly from them. I was initially told it would get started Friday and finished Monday morning, next thing I know it's mid-day Tuesday and they're just finishing the job, convincing me that it will make it on time and to keep my order.

Oh and I forgot to mention that I woke up to an e-mail with the invoice stating an $86 shipping charge bringing the total to $433.45. They did get back to me and said they'd cover it but it was quite alarming when I first recieved it.

maxtierney

iTrader: (5)

I feel your pain, it is unfortunate, but it happens more often than not. Especially, in the car world. I don't know how many times parts have taken longer to arrive than promised. Coming in damaged or not as advertised. It happens. People I have good working relationships with have let me down, on occasion. At the worst possible times. The dealer, my body shop, my performance shop, online sellers, eBay, etc. No one is infallible. It's how they handle to situation afterwards, that determines if they keep or lose me as a customer. In the big scheme of things, one day, actually 4 hours, is not a deal breaker. They comped you on the shipping and provided you with a quality product at a cheaper than eBay price. Not a total win, but they could have told you to screw yourself. They know you'll be buying a cam with their name on it, regardless of the source. Even if you bad mouthed Crower, that wouldn't stop me from buying from them or their product, because I don't have any other choice. I don't want to sound like a pr__k, that's not my intention. Sometimes you have to plan for it, like it was mentioned earlier.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

Some companies just dont respect their customers as much as they should

I bought a bike recently, kick stand broke, their warranty/customer service was awesome though
Asked me what part i needed, and to fax em over my receipt.
No questions asked, sent me my parts that arrived the following week

However, turns out they sent the kick stand for wrong bike.
So I sent them an email stating so, without hesitation
I got this reply email
For a $150 bike, that is really some exceptional customer service.
I wish I could say the same for sooo many more companies.
But fact of the matter is, there are some companies that don't respect you as a customer.

Btw, your attitude towards the person helping you out REALLY matters a lot too.

maxtierney

iTrader: (5)

Word!

Hardcoresteve

i cant say much for the "time crunch" situation but i will say that i was well enough content with the purchase and outcome of installation of my crower stg 1. ive had more issues with ebay sellers falling short on arrival time promises. magnaflow was prob the most reliable seller ive dealt with, and corsport i had the most issues with. just my experience. big companies can get things mixed up. it happens. scratch that... i had a bad experience with clutchmasters. poor shipping, and product.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

I hear ya there. I have waited 2 months for things to arrive from the states here. Really sucks you drove across the border People have driven on a blown head gasket for years. It shouldn't warp anything unleses you dont top up the coolant and bleed it here and there . I still wanna see a build thread damnit! Why don't you order a huge turbo and see how long it takes, then install it and take lots of pics?

MarkoPollo

More dissapointment from Crower...

"I just left you a voice mail.

The order was perfect and on time. The delivery date was today. You cancelled the order. Thus it became your responsibilty. The invoice you received was prelimanary invoice and not the final draft. The purpose of that email was for the tracking number. We were in fact only going to charge you the freight difference between ground and 2nd day service. We were going to eat the ground charges and the upgrade overnight to ensure you received the part as per request.

In lieu of this we are going to have to charge you a 20% re-stock fee once we receive the cam.

If you have any question you may contact our office manager at lilliam@crower.com.

Sincerely,

Frank Cifuentes
Crower Cams & Equipment Co.
Customer Service
dataentry@crower.com "

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

wow that email right there makes me never want to buy from them. they screw up and try to lie their way out of it. they should have just owned up and said we failed to meet the promised delivery time and we are happy to offer a full refund and some x amount of $ off your next purchase for the inconvenience. but hey what do i know, ive only been in retail 5 yrs.

wait so are they also charging you for the second day shipping? which was also their fault cause it didnt go out in time with ground? sucks but sounds like you are gonna be stuck with the shipping costs and the restock fee. you are prolly gonna be out $100 or more for nothing. if they actually sent it overnight, it shouldve gotton to you at like 8am in the morning the next day.

maxtierney

iTrader: (5)

I work in logistics for a living, we use USPS, UPS, FedEx, etc. on a daily basis. You may have some recourse. MAY. Overnight shipment does not necessarily mean by 8am or Noon. It may just need to arrive before the end of the business day. FedEx provides Same Day, First Overnight (by 8AM), Priority Overnight (by 10:30AM) and Standard Overnight shipments.

You can use the tracking number to determine what service was provided. If First or Priority was paid/provided for by Crower. You should contact FedEx and explain what happened. They are at fault for not delivering on time. They are liable for your/Crower's shipping costs.

If standard overnight was used, you can refute Crower's claim that they intended to deliver the cam at the agreed upon time of noon, because they did not pay for the service that guaranteed delivery at the prescribed time. If you have any e-mails, with the agreement, I would save it. You can throw out names like the BBB, small claims court, etc. Depends on how far you want to push it. I would settle on calling it even, with no payment for restocking and shipment.

Good luck.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

Pfft, i would just dispute it with my CC company,
If i never received the product physically in my hands. I'm not paying for anything.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

He did recieve it kenny so the CC company won't do anything... This is a dispute between him and Crower now.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

Hmm, maybe i'm blind, but nowhere did i read that he received it...
looks to me he canceled the order before he got it.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Oh from what I gathered he refused it at the door.. Not really sure I just kinda assumed.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

Just saying, if i never signed for any shipping, nor do i have it in my house.

I never received it.
You cant charge me for
1. Something that I did not purchase
2. A product that hasn't and will not been received
3. A service that hasnt been rendered.

MindBomber

That email settles it, if they can't honour their word and treat their customers well then I won't be buying from them in the future.

Forward them a link to this thread.

MarkoPollo

Yes, it was never recieved. The shipment was refused at 3:47pm on the day it was supposed to be delivered before 11:00am

My credit card company says that if they try to bill me that I can dispute the transaction. I just need to sign a form and they will reverse it as they can see by the tracking information that I never recieved the goods in question.

As far as I am concerned the order was placed under the premise that it would reach me in good time (before my appointment to get the engine work was completed). They didn't live up to their end of the agreement so I don't really feel that I should be financially responsible.

I'm going to email the supervisor and I'll post his response. Then we'll know for sure how these guys do their business.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

^ Yep.

CC companies will (normally) back you up on these.
We have consumer rights.

If they harass you, you can even report to BBB.
Keep all emails and records for evidence.

MarkoPollo

Just sent to the supervisor.

"Hello,

I am just wondering how we can work through an issue with a cam that I ordered from you folks. I placed the order on Friday August 5th in the afternoon under the condition that it reach me in Washington State by the morning of August 10th as I had an 11:00 apointment to take my car in for some head work.

I initially was going to purchase the D17A2 Stage 1 camshaft on ebay and called you folks to verify that it was the correct part for the application. The gentleman that assisted me on the part verification stated that it would be best to order directly from you folks at Crower. He stated that you folks could begin working on the cam that afternoon and have it finished by the morning of Monday 8th and in the mail to reach me with 2 day delivery.

Unfortuneately the item was not picked up for delivery by UPS until the evening of Tuesday, August 9th and did not make it to me in good time. The item was refused at 3:47pm on the 10th. Almost 5 hours after the deadline. Frank, who took my order has stated that I would be responsible fora 20% restocking and to contact you for further information.

Please share your thoughts.

Best regards,

Mark"

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Cool.. never knew that CC companies would support you here.

MarkoPollo

Let's hope so, they said they would try to block the transaction.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

CC companies almost always side with the customer because its in their best interest to keep you. they dont care nearly as much about some random company. and if you have proof, they will rule in your favor every time. a ups tracking link should be enough to show they were late in delivering it and violated their promise to deliver. it may not be as important with a car part, but there can be far worse consequences due to not delivering something else on time. i guess crower rep you spoke to did not take into account you are a member of a forum, otherwise he would have realized that to charge you for a measly $100, they will have thousands of people reading this thread and looking elsewhere for parts.

Hardcoresteve

Just talked my boy out of a crower purchase for ya today. snowball it into a boycott?

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Epic Fail on Crower I guess lol.... I wonder how many actual customers they will lose because of this. You shoudl send him a link to this thread. Tell him you will delete the thread if he sends you a free cam!

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

I dont really think they'll be really losing customers, cos honestly, most of us will probably still buy the cam shaft, maybe not directly from them I guess.

Maybe like an authorized dealer or something

MindBomber

I'm considering including a link to this thread in the stage 1 cam faq, what are your guy thoughts on that, would it be helpful?