1st - 5th Generation Civic 1973 - 1995 In the years from 1973 to 1995 Honda released its 1-5th Generation Civics.
1st Gen 1972 - July 1979
2nd Gen 1979 - 1983
3rd Gen 1984 - 1987
4th Gen 1987 - 1991
5th Gen 1992 - 1995

Starting to think I am fixing the wrong problem

 
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Old Nov 10, 2010
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Starting to think I am fixing the wrong problem

So after sealing the oil pan for the 4th time I took it out for a drive.
(this time I just used Honda bond, ran 2 large beads around the oil pan, torqued it down and let it dry for 50 plus hours before putting oil in)
Drove for about 20 minutes at highway speed. Pulled in the garage, and had an idle surging issue that I have been trying to figure out happen again. Spent a couple minutes disconnecting a sensor on the TB and disconnecting the battery to reset the code.
Looked under the car and there were already 3 or 4 drops of oil on the floor (less than 5 minutes)
Crawled under to look. Oil is dripping from the exhaust bracket that connects right behind the oil pan. There is a drop of oil forming on the pan below the front crank seal. There appears to be oil along the most of the back of the oil pan seal. Front is dry. The weird thing is that the oil is coming all the way down the exhaust bracket from the top. When I look from the top of the engine down through the intake manifold, the whole area is very wet (oily). Not just the dirty greasy mess like the rest of the engine, this looks like fresh oil. Although I am fairly sure the dizzy may be leaking there is very little wetness behind the lower part of the dizzy. This seems to be concentrated around the whole backside of the engine. There is even oil splatter on top of the oil filter.
What would be a likely cause of this much oil in that area? Is it possible that the oil from the oil pan could be blowing up instead of back?
I am just having a really hard time believing that I am incapable of sealing an oil pan.

The canister thing right above and to the right of the oil filter is almost dripping wet.
This is a non Vtec engine. D16B 94 DX hatchback.

There is no fresh oil to the rear of the oil pan on the car. All of the fresh wetness is above on the engine or at the top of the oil pan.
Also from the above pic taken above the engine, I am having a hard time believing that oil would blow that far up the engine.
Also the splatter on the oil filter appears to only be on top of the filter, not the bottom.
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Old Nov 10, 2010
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Re: Starting to think I am fixing the wrong problem

Its hard to tell what you got going on there... instead of looking around the oil pan, look around the head/headgasket area (between the head and the block)... you shouldnt have oil leaking from your exhaust, if anything the oil would burn and be black smoke out your exhaust. I would spend a few hours cleaning your messy engine bay and start with a clean bay and then go for a drive and diagnose the problem.
Old Nov 11, 2010
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Re: Starting to think I am fixing the wrong problem

I have been working on the engine bay. Have gone through 6 cans of degreaser and 8 cans of brake cleaner along with 2 series of pressure washing to get it where it is now. I truly believe the motor has been leaking for many years and that the engine has never been cleaned. I have spent hours cleaning and scraping and scrubbing and spraying. I will probably pull off the intake so I can get to the rear of the engine to clean it.
Hard to believe that the first two owners would never once clean the engine. The burning smell is driving me crazy and I have only put 600 miles on it.

It's not leaking from the exhaust, it's dripping down the exhaust bracket. Just not sure if the oil is dripping onto it from above or blowing onto it from the oil pan.

So head gasket and oil sending unit. Anything else back there that could release this much oil that quickly? The oil filter is not double gasketed as I made sure when I installed it and there doesn't seem to be any oil right below it.
Old Nov 11, 2010
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Re: Starting to think I am fixing the wrong problem

Yeah, sounds like a headgasket. Make sure to get the heads checked/shaved too, they could have warped.
Old Nov 12, 2010
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Re: Starting to think I am fixing the wrong problem

The only thing i can think of would be the oil filter... you mighta put it on right, but it might be the wrong filter... I've seen that happen before. Only places you need to worry about are where the oil goes... you put it in the head, and it drips down to the oil pan at the bottom of the motor. There arent any oil lines in the car, so your problem has to be coming from the engine. I'd pull the intake and manifold off and see whats good in there. Maybe pull your battery to so you dont accidently shock yourself.
Old Nov 12, 2010
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Re: Starting to think I am fixing the wrong problem

Originally Posted by TRIZ
Maybe pull your battery to so you dont accidently shock yourself.
lol. I like how you phrased that.
Old Nov 12, 2010
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You guys were right

Well, after a couple more hours of cleaning the underneath side of the engine I was finally able to locate the leak. It is the head gasket.
I made sure everything was clean and dry underneath. Idled it for about 20 minutes and just barely say a slight wet spot near the top but wasn't sure if it was oil or residual water. Drove to the parts store for some oil dye, UV light and glasses. Dropped the dye in and drove home. Never went over 35 to make sure the oil didn't blow up if it was the oil pan.
Crawled underneath and saw more wet areas around the lower part of the IM.
Looked through the IM from above and everything was soaked again.
revved the engine while looking through the IM and sure enough, there was oil spraying out of the gasket. Was lucky enough to have it between the manifold ports so it could be seen. Now to pull the head, have it milled and replace a few gaskets. Thanks for the help everyone.
The attached pic shows the location of the leak.
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Old Nov 13, 2010
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Re: Starting to think I am fixing the wrong problem

Yay! I was right!!

Glad to help man. But.. what did you pick up at the store that helped you find the leak? I'm interested in this stuff. Post some pics/desc.
Old Nov 13, 2010
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Re: Starting to think I am fixing the wrong problem

This is the dye Oil Dye
And this the light and goggles UV Light & Goggles Although I didn't need any of it, as I was able to visually see the leak once I located it.
But it's good if you have a tricky leak to locate. They make the dye for oil, AC, coolant and other fluids.
Old Nov 17, 2010
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Re: Starting to think I am fixing the wrong problem

Second link didnt work, but cool.
Old Nov 17, 2010
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Re: Starting to think I am fixing the wrong problem

Sorry to hear about the head gasket. On the bright side its a fun DIY and you can change your timing belt in the process.
Old Nov 18, 2010
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Re: Starting to think I am fixing the wrong problem

Not sure why the link doesn't work for you. Goes through when I click it. You can search for part number 26065 at http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/home.oap
 
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