Greetings Civic Forums. My first post here. The other day,my wife was driving her 97 Civic LX when the transmission stopped engaging and left just the engine spinning. She reacted quickly and coasted to a stop just off the road and had it towed home. It has 137K miles on the tranny. After work that evening, I checked the fluid. It was clear red and a little low so I added about half a quart of Honda fluid. I started it up and found drive and reverse working. As I coasted down the driveway, the transmission "went out" again, so my neighbor and I had to push it back up. It was as if everything was fine until it started warming up, although it's probably too soon to say. The wife says there were no warning signs before the sudden failure.

Recently, after a trip to a local shop, the CEL came on showing the code P0441. It's supposed to be related to the evap system so I don't see a connection and I don't currently own a scan tool to recheck it for new codes. I had just purchased struts, tie rods and an axle and was gearing up to install them when this latest problem occurred, so I have a lot on my plate. A few months ago, I did a timing belt job too. It's been a busy year for this car. Short of swapping with a used tranny or rebuilding, can somebody give me some troubleshooting tips and point me in the right direction? Will an OBD scanner help? I do own a multimeter.

Thanks,
Tom

P0441 is for insufficient purge flow. Should be completely unrelated to the trans failure.


Is there an unusual whine noise coming from the trans after it "lets go"? Or a whine all the time?

If the CEL has been on all this time, then you have no idea when NEW codes come up.
I'd say to check for what codes are currently stored in the computer, as a starting point.

Ezone,

I just came back in from testing the car. Yesterday, I borrowed a scanner from the "zone" and am currently researching which one to buy. No new error codes beyond P0441. So... I started the car and ran it through the gears, which seemed to work fine. I crept down the driveway a short distance and then back up in reverse. After maybe a minute or two, I detected a subtle whine sound. After noticing the sound I tried engaging the trans and this time no go. After that it seemed like the whine sound was gone, but the trans still inoperable. I am in a warm climate, temps are probably around 80F right now. What does the whine signify?

My guess would be the trans fluid pump is starving due to the internal filter is clogged with clutch material.
Fluid pressure testing would probably confirm loss of line pressure.
Time for a rebuild or replacement.

Ezone,

Thanks for the assistance. The usual suspects don't have a pressure tester; neither does Harbor Freight. I will try to locate a tester but since my wife is able to use a spare car for the time being, thankfully I don't have to rush; it's a good thing as I have a lot on my plate over the next week.

Equipment for testing trans fluid pressures is a specialty item, usually one wants a dual or triple gauge set to watch several different pressures at once.

AND you need a GOOD service manual or dedicated transmission manual so you can learn how to test, which pressure ports to use for each test, and what the specs are.

I doubt HF or the Zone will have anything like this. Best I remember the Zone having was an engine oil pressure gauge.




And really, your scenario sounds like the typical "clogged filter/worn out trans" one of the trans goes to neutral while driving, then you shut it off and restart and it pulls again--- makes me think the internal filter has a debris pile under it that is getting picked up under suction, then falls away when the engine is shut off....then you start moving again and suction picks up the debris again and starves the pump.


I hope it's not really a shot trans, but it sure sounds like it to me.
HTH

I have the Honda factory manual in electronic form. It has a section on transmissions but I haven't looked for the pressure specs yet.

Good advice on the multi-gauge set.

I was at the Toyota dealer the other day getting parts for my Camry and I explained to a tech what was going on with the wife's Civic. He stated that I could split the trans in half and clean the screen without much trouble finding the screen. I'm on a tight budget, so hopefully it's a matter of cleaning and remounting. Maybe I can find someone with a dyno tester to see how well it runs before we put it back in.

The filter is sometimes referred to as a "screen door" filter. Meaning it filters out the big chunks.

An instructor once told the class, "If there is a problem big enough to clog up that screen door, that problem needs a teardown and overhaul."


Hondas transmissions are not built like any other manufacturers transmissions. There are no planetary gear sets, no bands. It's built more like a hydraulically shifted manual gearbox.



I don't remember seeing any threads on overhauling a trans like yours in here but there have been a couple on 7th gen trannys.
If you want to look at them

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...uild-pics.html

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...stigation.html


You can get rebuild kits from reputable vendors too. Make sure to get a fresh torque converter with any overhaul, and make sure to either get the ATF cooler flushed or replaced.

Well, I bit the bullet and had it towed to a rebuild shop. US$1500. I was going to take it out and deliver it to the shop. Instead, my wife, who is kinder to me than I am to myself, talked me into having it towed. The owner of the shop, Bob (Bob the builder) and his builder Dave(40 years experience) told me it was a matter of the torque converter (TQ) clutch breaking down and clogging the screen. He said he typically sees Honda's auto trans needing service around 140 or 150K. My wife's car has 134K. He also put in a reman TQ claiming it would have a carbon fiber clutch. I was also told (in harmony with Ezone's comments) that Honda's automatics are like a hybrid transmission. similar to both an auto and manual trans. But poor form IMO for Honda not to use a serviceable filter screen. In the process I had Bob install 2 new axles, inner and outer tie rods, a steering rack, and rear main engine seal. I am now changing out all the struts with KYB replacements. The rear end has been very loud. All wheel bearings have been replaced and soon the struts. Other than the tires, I don't know what else would cause excessive road noise in the back. Hopefully the struts will improve it but I'm not sure. Either way, the struts are ready for replacement. Thanks to Ezone for the helpful info. I hate paying retail but am glad this is over.