Rep Power: 0

So I am not familiar with car stuff much at all. 2000 CIVIC EX. Got a P1361 Top Dead Center Sensor. Talked to a few different Honda dealerships and am getting several answers. The part itself is only $60-$70 so not a big deal. However several places are telling me that its very labor intensive and that as a result I should have them replace my timing belt and water pump as well. This is a 2000 Civic with about 175,000 miles on it. The timing belt was done at about 120,000 or so I think, however I am pretty sure that the water pump was never changed. I will look back at my records but I am almost certain that it wasn't done. I have been told they should both be done at the same time but when the timing belt was changed the guy told me that my water pump was fine at that time. I have heard the the timing belt should last me 80,000 to 100,000 miles is this right? Also some people on here with many miles over 200,000 have said the have never replaced there water pump, is this typical.


I am really confused now. I have talked to several different local shops and a few dealerships and am getting different answers which makes me quite concerned about what dealer to take the car to. I assume since if its a Honda dealer they should know what they are talking about but that doesn't appear to be the case since I am getting different info at each dealer.

To be clear it is a 2000 Civic EX Manual as mentioned above. Several honda sites(genuine honda dealer part) sell the TDC Top Dead Center Sensor for about $40-$50. One dealer said they can replace it and the labor would be between 1 and 2 hours of time. Another dealer said I have to replace the entire distributor and that you can't just replace the TDC sensor. Why would they sell it separatly if you can't replace it by itself?

Also one dealer said this is a TDC Crank Sensor and that it is the same thing as the Top Dead Center Sensor, another said they are totally different.

One dealer said its not in the distributor its under the timing belt cover.

So which is it and what needs to be replaced? I am not made of $ and can't afford unnceccary repair costs. The car has about 165,000 miles on it and I want it to run to 500,000 like many Honda owners have done. I take good care of the car and replace things that are needed when they go. I have been very lucky and have had very few things go wrong over the years.
-----------
Next issue is the CAT. I am getting a P0420 code. I have read A LOT of posts on here about this and seem quite a bit of info. I was told I needed a new 02 sensor a while back and that it wouldn't mess up my car if I didnt change it, just cause me to get less MPG. Well apparently the guy was VERY wrong and I have now learned that a bad 02 sensor may very well have caused the CAT to go bad! However, the code for the 02 sensor is not coming up now, what does this mean? Should I still replace it when I have the CAT replaced? Why wouldn't it come on anymore? I never saw the code personally I just know what the car place told me. They are about $200 for the factory OEM 02 sensor online so I don't want to replace it if I don't have to. However, if I am going to invest almost $600 plus the cost of labor in a new CAT I don't want a bad 02 sensor to mess this one up. Any suggestions?

Also I know there are 2 different 02 sensors. I have read that the one near the CAT only tells you if the CAT is working and that the other one determines the fuel ratio. I imagine this sensor if it went bad is what caused the CAT to go back by running the engine too rich from what I have read. Is there any reason to replace both of them or just the O2 sensor that made the CAT possibly go bad, and what is this particular 02 sensor called.

So based on all of this what should I do and exactly what needs to be replaced. Like I said I have gotten VERY different info from different HONDA dealers and this is a major concern.


I plan to buy the parts online and have a HONDA dealer install them. Can anyone who knows what I need to do also tell me the total amount of time each issue (CAT/02 & TDC Sensor/Possible Distributor Replacement) will take in terms of labor time. They charge about $100 an hour for labor.
-----------------

 
Rep Power: 235

Wow, so much to cover.

TDC sensor is under the top timing belt cover. (take off the head cover, then the top timing belt cover and it's right there. One bolt and your done.) Any time they have to take the head cover off it's gonna cost ya. Water pump should have been done when the timing belt was done. They're trying to up-sell you, ask them what the cost difference is. They don't have to take off as much stuff to do the TDC sensor as they do the water pump.

While it's true that a bad O2 sensor can make a cat go bad with that many miles your cat probably just wore out. It's recommended that you change the sensors when you change the cat but, I've run 80,000 miles since I changed my cat only.

Hope this answers most of your questions.

http://www.bkhondaparts.com/billkay/jsp/home.jsp

 
Rep Power: 235

If the TDC is in the distributor then it should be even easier. BTW- You should listen to Phootbag, deep well of knowledge.

 
Rep Power: 0

Thanks for the reply. As far as the Water Pump goes, to my knowledge the worst that can happen if the Water Pump goes is that the car will overheat and it will need to be replaced? I have about 165,000 miles on the car and I believe I had the timing belt done around 110 or 120. As of now I was planning on leaving it alone and will get it done when I do that timing belt around 200,000. I have read posts on here and other boards that people say they have gone over 200,000 without doing the water pump. Does that sound right?
-------
As far as the TDC Sensor I am still confused. On the 2000 Civic EX, is it in the distributor or is it under the timing belt cover? Or is the distributor itself under the timing belt cover? I am confused as to why I was told I needed to replace the entire distributor and that I can't just replace the sensor, when I can buy the sensor by itself online for about $40 ( 37500-P2F-A01 SENSOR ASSY., CRANKSHAFT (TEXAS INSTRUMENTS) A new distributor is $390, big difference!

1. So lets first deal with that question about replacing the distributor/vs just the Top Dead Centor Senor. One dealer told me that this part # I listed is not the TDC sensor, when 2 others and that online parts dealer (who is also a Honda Dealership) said it was.

2. Where is this sensor located? I was quote about between 1-2 hours the other day to replace the sensor. Another place like I said told me it would be 3.5 hours and that since it was like doing a timing belt job, I should just replace the timing belt and water pump now along with the sensor. So again a major discrepancy between what I am being told.

3. As far as the CAT, I have no problem replacing the CAT if it is in deed bad now. Like I said many people say that a bad sensor can also cause a P0420, and others say it is 100% a bad CAT. The sensors are about $200. THE CEL is not calling for the 02 to be replaced but like I said I was told about a year or year and a half ago that it did call for it (I don't know which one it said to replace). I have driven the car without replacing it for that long. I was told that doing this caused the engine to run too rich and that made the CAT go bad. I understand there are 2 O2 sensors, one behind the CAT that from what I was told only tell you whether the CAT is bad, and the other (not sure where it is located) that deals with the fuel mixture and is probably the one that went bad and caused my CAT to burn out. Should I just replace the one O2 sensor (not the one behind the CAT) and see what happens, or just replace the O2 and the CAT.
I was quote 1.5 hours to replace the CAT and that he would do the 02 sensor included in that. The labor on the 02 sensor by itself is 1 hour.

Thanks for the replies.!!

 
Rep Power: 235

1. Called my buddy at the Honda house, he said it's under the timing cover. Best way to find out for yourself is to get a service manual.

2. Should be 1-2 flag hours for the TDC. They're just trying to up-sell you, just go with the TDC.

3. Just go with the cat. They go bad over time. With that many miles it probably just went bad. They're just trying to up-sell the O2 sensor.

 
Rep Power: 0

Cool thanks. I appreciate the input! SO the Top Dead Center Sensor (TDC) is under the timing cover, but is it in the distributor or no? Is the distibutor under the timing cover?
So I also assume that they are just trying to up-sell me on doing the timing belt early as well then? They want about $550 to do the timing belt/water pump (parts included). And like I said between 1-2 hours for just the TDC Sensor, labor is about $100 an hour.

Any idea how long a timing belt/water pump replacement takes? I can get the parts myself for the timing belt/water pump for about $100-$120 replacing all the parts brand new Honda Genuine. Should I do the TDC/Timing Belt/Water Pump, all together and just get it done? Is this a good deal?
-------

As far as the CAT/02....how long will an 02 sensor last? The last thing I want to do is replace the CAT and then damage it again with a bad 02 sensor like what probably happened this time. Again, like said he was gonna install the 02 sensor for free essentially including it in the CAT replacement labor cost.
Should I just replace that one sensor along with the CAT? Where is the other sensor located. By other sensor I mean the one that made the engine run too rich and damaged the CAT..


Thanks again for your help. I know almost nothing when it comes to car repair but have a pretty good business sense and can tell when someone is trying to screw me or rip me off. Its very hard do this though when you know nothing about the repairs they are suggesting.