Wakko

I browsed his thread for sure. No, I'm not planning a valve job unless absolutely necessary.

RE: Back seals, I don't even know what they are...just figured if I was there I'd replace them.

The oil pump is leaking very badly. When I bought the car for him, I knew little of Hondas and ASSumed it was going to be an easy oil leak to fix, only to find out it was the pump seal. I have no idea if the oil pan is leaking, but if that can be done at a later date independant of this big job, then I can hold off and see if it needs it. I will definitely do the solenoid and valve seals too.

Kid needs the car ready to go in a couple of weeks, I'm in the middle of moving and just had a baby, so my time (and money) is short as it is. He's a good kid, smart, but still a typical Fast and Furious loving 16 year old. If he got two years out of the car without A) crashing it B) blowing something up, I'd be happy. He and his mom are in a tough bind financially, and he's about to start college classes, so all of this (including the purchase price of the car) is out of my pocket until they can pay me back. We changed the window regulator and exterior door handle together, which was good buddy time, but in the interest of time, I'll be doing this job mostly solo as I can get outside for an hour or two at a time.

ezone

If you are removing the oil pump, the oil pan is coming off to do it.



Back seals are #5 and 6, they fit between the head and the inner timing cover.
I've never replaced them LOL






Vtec gaskets, first one is called the filter and is easily found in a parts catalog
FILTER ASSY., SPOOL VALVE
# 15825-P2M-005

Second gasket is this for the upper section of the valve (the solenoid), the only way to find it is to go back several years to about 1995 to find the part number:



GASKET, SOLENOID BASE
Part# : 36172-P08-015

I was kinda thinking you can cut more corners if the car isn't going to last another 100k.
I've done plenty of stuff like this for both of my GFs kids.

Wankenstein

OP: download or buy a service manual and follow along for headgasket replacement. Also, the video below has very good advice:

Wakko

Wow, that's a great video. I've never used a torque angle gauge before...guess I'll add that to the tool chest.

ezone

Let me save you a few more bucks: Forget it.

If you grab your service manual and actually read it long before starting the job, you should be able to determine this particular job will not be using that particular tool.

A normal torque wrench is what you will need for the head bolts.
Hopefully one that is somewhat accurate.

Wankenstein

I didn't use an angle gauge and I didn't use a thread chaser. Just sprayed block holes with brake cleaner, suctioned out with with shop vac rigging, then follow up by blowing compressed air. I used new head bolts 10 for $25 from HondaPartsNow on me old 6th gen. OP when you read the service manual it will show you the torque specs, torque sequence and torque steps (3).

Dude in video IMO is one of the best on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/mattshadetree/videos

Wakko

Where do I find this "service manual" of the gods?

ezone

The Almighty Search Bar.

SlowboyZ

Having an 05 civic ex about to reach 200k miles. Can I do preventative maintenance by replacing the head gasket even though it's still good? Or would it be a waste of money?

ezone

That's entirely up to you, your budget, your time, etc.

Personally, I wouldn't unless there was some reason or other major work being done...but I also tend to be more observant than the average car owner so I believe I could catch a problem long before it became catastrophic.



Right now (among other big jobs to be done) I've got a 04 Civic at work that lunched its timing belt and bent a small fortune in valves..... I wrote up several possible ways to go about fixing it......One possible version is obtaining a used engine, PLUS replacing the timing belt and head gasket before installing in the car......
...... simply because so many do need it and a lot of these cars are going to the boneyards with a bad head gasket because the cost of the head gasket job it needed was more than the car was worth.

Wankenstein

To add to what Ezone said...preventative maintenance to reduce risk of a head gasket breech includes inspecting all coolant system hoses (including heater hoses) for deterioration, weak/thin spots, bulging...especially where the hoses attach to the engine. From my experience I feel it's good practice to replace all coolant and heater hoses at the 100k mile mark. Hoses can last longer than that but for the $125 or so it cost to replace them it's cheap maintenance considering how long they last.

Also, check the coolant pH balance every year. If it's been a few years or you don't know when the last coolant drain and fill was that's a good place to start to help prevent head gasket issues. Pentosin Pentofrost A3 (blue dye) 50/50 antifreeze mix is suitable for 7th gen Honda's.

One more thing to add that you may already know is, if it overheats pull over, turn off engine and set climate control to max heat and turn blower fan on. This will help cool the engine faster.

ezone

^The head gasket in 7th gens can still blow no matter if you do preventive stuff mentioned above or completely ignore it. Many of them blew long before any maintenance would have been needed.

No, I'm not discounting the need for service and preventive maintenance....just sayin.



It won't even run....and sales took it in on trade today on a new Civic LOL

Wankenstein

Is there enough value in it to repair It?

ezone

Visually it looks like a rolling dumpster fire that doesn't even roll on its own.
It's what, at best a 1000 car if it runs? Over 150k, one fender was replaced and never painted--a patina of rust, busted windshield, the interior has that "lived in" look and smell

I heard they wrote it down for 500 on the trade in. I got a feeling it won't be fixed in our shop, it will go to a local car lot or straight to the crusher.

Wankenstein

Or possibly auction?

Wakko

Forgive my density, but it's 4:14 in the morning and I'm finishing up a 12 hour shift and need to get this order in ASAP. In lieu of ordering the HG kit, what gasket do I need? Are there any of the parts that can be replaced with aftermarket that are 1) equivalent and 2) worth doing to save the coin? My parts order is still $397 on HPU.com. I read that the Aisin water pumps are GTG, as are the Mitsuboshi belts, but OEM tensioner is a must, as is the actual HG. I picked up a 12 hour OT shift tomorrow to pay for the parts, at the cost of spending time with my 1 month old. Sigh.

ezone

Depends on what is taken apart.....and how much you think you can get away with reusing.

Rubber gaskets that have hardened or are known problems get replaced.
I sometimes reuse steel gaskets and silicone gaskets (if they aren't damaged) out of necessity (because they weren't available in time). I have reused intake gaskets and exhaust manifold gaskets, and if I took off the water passage housing I'd coat the steel gasket with Permatex #3 Aviation sealer (my fave for sealing gaskets for coolant), or Permatex High Tack.

You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.

Step back and think about how long this car is going to realistically last in the hands of a teenager.... What does it absolutely need to fix the problems right now, vs. what could be postponed until later ---- say if the car makes it past two years in the kids hands and he still wants to keep it for another # of years or miles?

Wakko

It needs the timing belt and related items, the HG of course, and the oil pump gasket. Other than that, there's nothing significantly wrong with the car. I have no idea how old the clutch is, so I expect that to be the next big thing to go, and I have no intention of changing that on my own.

ezone

There are a few different ways the head gasket job could be done........and you don't yet know for sure if the head will have to be completely stripped to be resurfaced....so you could do a teardown, make a list of gaskets and parts you will definitely need as you go.

After you have received the cylinder head back from the machine shop, you should be able to tell exactly what you will need to put it all together.


16yo with a clutch? Oh noes. Hope he learned how from someone who knows how to make a clutch last as long as the car.

Wakko

Vin Diesel showed him how to drive. And I'm only partially exaggerating. On the few outings we got with the car before it went poo-poo, I showed him the art of a gentle shift and gentle start. Considering how slow these cars are, I'm hoping that he'll get some of the "racing" out of his system earlier than later, before killing the clutch. If he DOES kill the clutch, it's out of his pocket, and that'll make nearly anyone respect it in the future. I figure that'd be a hard job to do in the garage, so I wouldn't be offering to do it with him.

Colin42

DIY clutch isnt too bad, easier than the head gasket and timing belt in my opinion. I did my clutch and swapped the tranny in a day in my driveway, and that was a first for me

Wakko

Well, she's all fixed up. Head gasket was blown at 2 and 3, head needed machining but lower end was fine. Water pump was still tight with a supple gasket, but naturally replaced it anyway. Timing cover was in bad shape with a crack, and the oil pump seal was harder than a 14 year old with a Playboy. Radiator was good, thermostat changed to be safe. Even in the South Florida heat with the A/C on, idled for over two hours without a hiccup, temperature stays under 1/2way. Not a drop of oil left on the driveway. Kid's happy and cruising around, already saved up the $300 to get a couple new tires on the back end next week. Hopefully she's good for another 113k miles, as I'm broke! A/C quit in my pickup last week ($450 later) and the house ($5600 later) and the 5 week old adds to the mix. Life's good! First world problems.