stock

Who uses anti seize on their spark plugs?

I found this TSB from NGK. http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/tb-...1antisieze.pdf

NGK advises against using anti seize on NGK spark plugs.

If I don't use anti seize, will the spark plugs get stuck or bond to the engine over time?

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

I alway use anti seize grease. I've changedy plugs 4 times now and have never had a problem. I've seen cars that's didn't use it... And they were not nice to get out... Especially because we have alum blocks.

Biscuit

I use it every time.

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

Holy crap. You joined in '03?!

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

Also. You should always use a tq wrench and set it to the proper setting. Which is 13lbs I believe.

ezone

I have been taught BOTH ways.
I have been taught different reasons both for and against.
Also about plug coatings vs. cast iron or cast aluminum heads.
I have seen many plug related disasters and had to deal with them over the years. (Sucks!)

More than one vehicle manufacturer says yes (in print), but plug manufacturer says no.
Example, C&P straight from an 02 Civic service info on the Honda site (because I already had it up):

1. NGK:
   PZFR6F-11
   DENSO:
   PKJ20CR-M11
2. Apply a small quantity of anti-seize compound to the plug threads, and screw the plugs into the cylinder head, finger-tight. Then torque them to 18 N•m (1.8 kgf•m, 13 lbf•ft).

Might be a matter of nobody can control the OVERUSE of anti-seize, or the use of the wrong type or anti-seize.....Definitely likely. (I have seen problems from this too.)

Therefore, blanket rules to keep idiots from ruining a good thing (JMHO).







Next question:
Can you find identical recommendations on websites of other spark plug manufacturers, like DENSO, AUTOLITE, CHAMPION, et al?




HTH

rjones7755

Ive always used the old fashioned "hand tight and a quarter turn" rule on all the cars i've worked on

lowlife9

i always use it on my NGK or DENSO plugs.just use a tiny tiny amount.

towguy87

never used it on plugs but mabe if i ever had one welded to the head i would try it cant hurt

ezone

If you find one welded to the head, that's a little bit too late to try it.

JS

towguy87

true enough just never had a plug stuck in a head is this more common on imports allways had v8s

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

I have never used it on any of my vehicles (3 Honda's). Never have had a plug even come close to getting stuck. Maybe its the NGK's coating.

ezone

I only remember seeing spark plug thread galling on aluminum heads....

That makes the V8 part irrelevant since they can use aluminum heads too.






I have seen threads damaged from other causes too.

Matt_75

I've never used any on my civic. Three changes and torqued to 156 in-lbs. Never had a problem getting them out.

ezone

Most average people have experience with somewhere between zero and a handful of sparkplugs. Maybe dozens.

Someone like me may have done thousands.
I have probably only had to deal with.....maybe a couple dozen real problem plugs over the years. Pretty small ratio.....
But I have had to deal with enough to make me use every trick I can to avoid the problem.

The majority of the work I complete, I try to do it as though I am going to be the next person that has to take it apart several years from now.




I have never had the pleasure of doing any Ford 3-valve plugs. I do not want to work in a Ford dealer.

stock

I've never used it before.

How much is a tiny amount and where on the plug threads do you apply it?

Do you apply it all over the spark plug threads and make sure it's coated?

ezone

OMG I just went looking for a pic in GIS and almost every one has far too much goop glopped onto the plugs (for MY liking).


(Maybe if I remember later, I might take a pic at work of how I do it.)

This is pretty close to what I would use. No more. Maybe a little less.
I like WHERE they put it.
You don't want the antiseize to be past the first thread. You don't want ANY chance that it can creep onto the important parts of the plug (electrodes).

With that tiny glob spread over the first three threads by hand, it will be spread over all the rest of the threads as it gets screwed into its hole.










I was reading the NGK bulletin, saw their pics of plugs that had been broken off due to overtightening. I completely understand their position on how antiseize acts as a lubricant and skews the torque process.
Also please note their pic is of a 10mm spark plug.




I just want to say, I tighten spark plugs by feel.
I can FEEL the gasket crush and I can FEEL when it stops crushing.
I know when to stop.

You can feel and visualize every step of the tightening process if you use a torque wrench on a dry plug and go slow. With "sensitive fingers".
You can't feel any of this if you act like a gorilla.

Once you can feel the entire process, you can apply what you learned to far more than your 14mm plugs, no matter what the specs are.
New Hondas are using 12mm plugs now. Lower torque spec. Still using a crush type sealing washer, so the FEEL is still the same.

Even an oil drainplug with its sealing washer.

mikey1

i agree.....

i have never in my life used a torque wrench on a spark plug.....i have had cars, motorcycles, boats, sea doos, snowmobiles, lawn mowers, snow blowers, etc etc....and i worked at an auto shop for a few years....

i have changed hundreds of plugs in my time....never one problem.....

stock

If a dry plug is 13 lbs torque, what is the torque spec on a new plug with anti seize applied?

If I want to check and reinstall the plug, what is the used plug torque spec?

Since torque specs can be skewed on lubed plugs and inacurracies with torque wrenches, is it better to just give it a 1/2 turn after screwing it in finger tight?

Matt_75

....

ezone

Imagine that!

Matt_75

Oops! Missed that. Corrected.

ezone

There isn't one. You are not supposed to install it this way. Didn't you read the NGK information linked above?


13 ft-lb. No difference....unless it is lubed.



Maybe I should watch what I say, since carbon buildup in the threads can and will skew torque/clamping forces in the opposite direction. Experience and good judgement should rule?

Absolutely not. Not if you are trying to reuse a plug. (Assuming, since you asked about used plugs first.)

That 1/2 turn is for a brand new plug. The 1/2 turn is supposed to squash the sealing gasket, on the type of plugs that use a sealing gasket. A USED plug already has that gasket squashed...(Well, should have had its gasket squashed if it was installed properly the first time.)


Instead, go locate and read about how to install a tapered seat sparkplug.

If you could do this by "feel" there wouldn't be any question about what is happening as the part gets tightened.

Jim_Vanzant

I will be using anti-seize from this point on due to the fact that I am one of those folks who have had a plug actually break while trying to take it out. I am hoping that the machine shop I am taking the head to can take care of that for me when they check out the rest of the head.

pjb3

If you use anti-sieze I would recommend the bronze colored and not the more common silver colored type. I believe the bronze type is what is commonly used on O2 sensors.

I read an article once that the silver type is not designed for high heat and can harden causing the threads to strip when you remove the spark plug. I don't know if this is true but I did use it once on plugs and they were stiff when I tried to remove them. I ended up using penetrating oil and backing them out slowly ( half turn out, then quarter turn back in ). I figure with aluminum heads it is better to be safe than sorry.

Poopies

iTrader: (4)

Nah, as far as Loctite goes, the silver stuff is still rated for high heat (as long as you call 1600F high). The copper anti-seize is rated 200 degrees higher but I wouldn't think it would make that much of a difference. Technically, you could opt for the lubricant made with nickel and it would be rated for temps up to 2400F. Seems like overkill IMO.

http://www.sealanddesign.com/categor...Seize/449.html

ezone

Loctite?????

Poopies

iTrader: (4)

Yup. I didn't know they made anti-seize until today.

ezone

Loctite and Anti-seize just don't seem like they should be used in the same sentence together. Polar opposites of each other.


I know it's the brand name, but the name implies a locking product to me.
Kinda like Kleenex is a brand even though it's what everyone calls any tissue.

Pffft...Nevermind me.

Poopies

iTrader: (4)

Sounds better than Locloose