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Hey guys,


Just quick... ive read about the forums and i wanna know if its possible to put a B18 or B16 into my EM2

I know about the K20a and boosting my current D17, but honestly i think my engine not gonna be good for boost.
It has about 82k on it and although runs perfect i just think i'd strain it... anyone think that a turbo is a good idea on 82k???

And the K20a is wayyy to expensive but a B18 might be a nice soloution, i can get a GSR teg engine for £500 ~$850 with 50k on it.


Thanks guys,
Apprciate it loads!!!

 
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Nope you can't. Technically you 'can' but it requires lots of 1. money 2. time and 3. custom fab work. Either swap a K or boost the D, those are the only two practical options. Do a compression and leak down test on your motor, if everything checks out, boost away.

 
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Ahhh right, cheers baron.

I know how to compression test but leak down test???
And what you reckon for safe HP on standard internals.... although at some point i'll get Stage 2 boost cams with springs and retainers for higher rev limit.
What will be a safe boost before and after stage 2 cams? and truthfully what work should be done before boost/? no matter how little.

One more thing to the list i know this is in the forum but somesones own opinion is better to me.
Anyway yeah, what would be the best kit to get? trying not to spend serious $$ though.. but do want something that will last.

Again thankYOU!!!

Tomj

 
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If you're trying not to spend serious money, buy some of my stuff in the FS thread. I'm parting out my entire turbo setup.

 
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^^^ Why?

And what about safe boost and so on?

Did my reasearch on leak testing btw so cheers i'll do that asap...


Tom

 
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I would stick to 10 maybe 12 psi on stock internals, cam and intake mani. That should put you up around 200-ish hp. If your compression and leak down checks out, your engine should be fine. Do your research before you start to go turbo. But a quick rundown, you will need a fuel pump and injectors, clutch, slim fans, 3" exhaust. Thats just a few things that will make it safer and easier to run. You can run a smaller exhaust and the stock fuel pump, but again, it will help. The stock clutch will be ok but won't last.

Dezod.com is the only place has a turbo kit thats worth a crap. You can piece one together though, or buy a dezod kit used.

 
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Compression test just tells you if your cylinders are holding pressure. If it fails a comp test, then you do a cylinder leak down test. The leak down test will confirm where it is loosing pressure, if the leakage is past the rings or out of the valves. One thing you can do to save a lot of time when doing a compression test is to check compression, and if it is not correct add a slight amount of oil to the top of the piston, and try to get it around the radius of the piston. Now re-do your compression check, if the compression went up then 9 times out of 10 you are loosing pressure past the rings. If the compression stays the same, then it is probably the top end. If you boost a D17 on stock internals I would not run over 8psi. I can almost guarantee you will blow that motor.
Safe boost pressure and your camlift and duration operate completely independent of each other. Like, you couldnt run a stock motor on 20psi just because you have stage 30 cams. Yes that was an exaggeration to make an example.
You are going to have to spend serious money to boost a D17, and Dezod motorsports kit would definitely be the only kit I would recommend. The D17 suffers heavily because it is a nonreturn type fuel system and a plastic intake manifold that is subject to ballooning. So to boost properly (be able to run over 8psi) here is a list of things you should def. do:
-Block guard (fills in the empty space around the top of the block where waterjackets run)
-Convert to a return type fuel system
-You must have software to run this new return system (AEM EMS)
-Fuel pump
-Intake manifold
-Injectors
-Lower compression pistons
-forged rods
-You must have an air cooler (intercooler) to run high boost
-Cooler range spark plugs
And after all that you still need the turbo and all the components to mount and run it.
Thats around 8000$ for 245whp at 14psi... or for almost the same price you could K20 swap and have a stock motor sitting at 220. Fully built 250hp or stock motor with 220?? Logically it would ONLY make sense to Kswap. If you do it, either way do it right bc it will cost you more in the end to take short cuts.

 
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Do you have any clue what you are talking about? Have you boosted a d17a motor? My guess is no. I am running bone stock motor, d16y8 intake mani, arp head studs, dezod kit and AEM EMS 10 psi right now and no problems in sight. You do not need to build the engine to boost a d17. You can use k-pro instead of EMS for a standalone but a piggy back does work for lower levels of hp/boost. The non return type fuel system is fine with a walbro and big injectors until about 275 hp on the conservative end, prolly closer to 300. The plastic intake mani has been confirmed to hold 22 psi. I wouldn't push it past 12 DD, but it will hold more.

Oh and that parts list you just recommended with the addition of a cam, valve springs and retainers is good for like 350 hp (assuming a dezod kit)

 
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Ok so listening to you, no offence to anyone else but you seem to know the deal...
As well as the list you've run down exhaust clutch etc... without sounding like a complete idiot would you be able to price me up something with what you reccommend?
I mean i live in the UK but can get stuff shipped over so thats not a big deal.
I mainly ask as i just dont wanna go out and buy what everyone "reccommends" i want something that will work stock at ~10PSI and give a nice HP gain without spending ~$10000 (exgeration i know but you see my point)

If you have the time any links to sites selling what you need would be great i've been on DEZOD and will get a kit off there.
You reccommend running a block guard?

Oh and thankyou ALOT! in advance

Tom

 
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Do not run a block guard, it's unnecessary. Our cylinder walls are stout enough as it is and the only thing you will do is impede coolant flow and cause hot spots at the top of the block.

www.bisimoto.com for an Action clutch that fits the 96-00 D16 hydro - that fits our car perfectly.

For the rest of the stuff, you can get the cam, springs and retainers and really everything else off dezod.com.

Dodge SRT-4 injectors flow 490cc on stock Honda fuel pressure which is more than enough to see you to about 300whp on the stock fuel system. Plus the o-rings are the same size as Honda injectors and the stock Honda clips with them. Find them on ebay or one of the forums.

As far as exhaust goes, tubing is tubing. Run 2.5" or 3" on your setup with whatever muffler and resonator you want.

 
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Do not run a block guard, it's unnecessary. Our cylinder walls are stout enough as it is and the only thing you will do is impede coolant flow and cause hot spots at the top of the block.

www.bisimoto.com for an Action clutch that fits the 96-00 D16 hydro - that fits our car perfectly.

For the rest of the stuff, you can get the cam, springs and retainers and really everything else off dezod.com.

Dodge SRT-4 injectors flow 490cc on stock Honda fuel pressure which is more than enough to see you to about 300whp on the stock fuel system. Plus the o-rings are the same size as Honda injectors and the stock Honda clips with them. Find them on ebay or one of the forums.

As far as exhaust goes, tubing is tubing. Run 2.5" or 3" on your setup with whatever muffler and resonator you want.

 
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Umm well.. I did it cheap. I spent 1800 on a used dezod kit from a guy on clubcivic.com. I put another couple hundred in it. I was sitting at 175 with AEM f/ic 6.5 psi and 2.25" exhaust for a grand total of about 2300 all said and done. I've put another about a thousand in it for AEM EMS, 3" exhaust, d16y8 intake manifold and a couple other odds and ends, going for a retune like next week shooting for 230 ish. That should give you a rough idea of how cheap you 'can' do it. But say 4000 US as a high estimate including a full standalone (either EMS or K-pro) you could be over 200 hp pretty easily. I personally can't attest to action clutches as I'm still rocking stock but speedfoos is wise in the ways of civic, he's been there and done it. He won't steer you wrong and action is what I'll be buying very shortly. Just check out stickies and faqs on here, clubcivic.com, d-series.org, and 7thgenhonda.com. From all that information you should have a great base knowledge of how to turbo your car, what its gonna cost, and what numbers you can expect, as well as a comprehensive parts list.

 
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Thanks, Foos.

Took a look at those SRT-4 injectors.... seem a nice alternative.
At least i wont need a new pump or have to mess around fitting non stock injectors (well you know what i mean)

As for the turbo kit im gonna go with the DEZOD S1 Kit.... I'll be happy with around 5~10 psi.
As for fitting the turbo, im all good with that. My main question is how do i turn up the boost? i know i get a boost controller but will the s1 kit take 10psi? and how hard are boost controller to wire?
Also how an earth do i fit AEM EMS or K-PRo i have no idea were to start with that.
So far im saving up the cash... will be doing the boosting in about a two months just trying to do my research now.
Anyway, leak down-compression test this weekend. will report back on the results monday

@Baron, did you find it hard to fit your turbo? can you remember any valid points or mishapps you had that you can help me avoid? wanna do this right once
So again,
Thanks alot Guys really apprciate all the help

Tom

 
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Umm fitment is pretty spectacular with the dezod kit. There are a couple little tweaks here and there, but overall its great. I punched a hole through the sheet metal next to the radiator and ran a charge pipe through there because the pipes are little tight running through that passage in the passenger wheel well and it rattled a little. I also had a pipe that would sag sometimes and sit on my shift linkage making it a little tough to get into first gear. And the downpipe rattled against the sub frame. I just did a little grinding and it went away. Thats about it, but like I said it fits great the way it comes. You'll need a manual or electronic boost controller to up the boost from the wastegate spring. I am running an MBC, they are cheap, effective and there is no temptation to 'just turn it up this once'.

 
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Ok baron, thanks...

As for the dezod kit are you running the S1?
Oh and what injectors you using? i took a look at what foos reccommended (SRT-4) but cant find any 490cc...440cc or 550cc and they both cost same.

You wanna do a very brief talk me through... on the install i mean just like what i'll need to remove and so on.
As for k-Pro or ems??? which one and how do i program that?


Again guys this is helping me tons

Tom

 
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I'm using stg-0 srt4 injectors right now, upgrading to stg-1 soon. The flow 525 and 577 cc respectively on the srt-4 but they run 58 psi stock, civics only run about 43 psi so they flow less. Yes I'm using the s1 kit, but with an older turbo, dezod is using a different turbo now with the same/very close specs. As for the run through. Like I said read all the stickies in the forced induction sections on here, clubcivic, 7thgenhonda, and d-series.org. I'm more than willing to help but the info is out there already. The install is basically just take off old parts, put in new parts. Take off bumper, passenger fender liner and headlight, exhaust manifold and exhaust, intake, drain oil and coolant, take radiator off, move PS pump. All that isn't required but makes things a ton easier. Put turbo parts on, mount fmic, run charge piping, install oil lines, tap oil pan, mount up new exhaust. Thats basically it but way over simplified. Oh and relocating the battery to the trunk makes things a ton easier.

EMS and k-pro do basically the same thing with a few minor differences but EMS is more expensive. You connect them to a computer and tune away, but thats best left to a professional unless you really know what you're doing.

Now go read. Do lots o' research, build up a good knowledge base, then if you're still confused ask away I'll be more than happy to help you out, but while I'm willing to help I also don't want to spoon feed you turbo knowledge.

 
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What would make you assume I do not know what I am talking about? Every bit of info I gave him has validity to it. No, I have not boosted a D17 however I have boosted a VR6 and I went to school and obtained a degree in engine performance and automotive mechanics. You dont have to build any motor to boost it. I never said you did. I said to run higher boost and to run it reliably you have to build the motor. Sure you can boost a stock D17 and you could even run 999999999999psi on a stock D17, but you wont do it for long. I never said the intake WOULD balloon, I said that it is subject to doing so because it is plastic.
You say you are running 10 pounds without any problems on a stock motor. Yet your stock motor consist of stronger head bolts, a non plastic intake mani, and fueling. Im sure the D17 pistons and rods can take more than 10psi if you add some fuel to it. But this guy has over 60k on his motor and I was simply advising him to 6-8psi because that is a very safe/reliable boost pressure generally speaking on most all motors which were not originally built to run anything over atmospheric pressure.

 
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Ok, Thanks for the update..... will take it into account upon setting my boost.
What is balloning btw its a term i've not heard?


Thankyou very much i understand about the spoon feeding, i will go do my research was only asking someone else's build techniqe as there's may differ and might have gone better/worse then the forced induction threads..... anyways, cant thank you enough for the info and support

As far as EMS/K-Pro go which is easier and better? what do you use? and just one last thing quickly lol
Do your SRT-4 injectors flow e.g 400cc due do the PSI pump restriction on the civic?
And is that good enough flow for about 10psi boost?


Cheers....

Tom

 
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Ok... I may have come off a little more *******-ish than I meant to. Older gen civic guys always say k-swap or oh the d17 is a P.O.S. etc. etc. and it really ticks me off. My point was, you don't need to do all that building you can push 10-12 psi with very few modifications to the actual engine. Injectors and fuel management are a must for any boost build. All that stuff you suggested is great, but it doesn't fit with the OP's goals. That stuff is good for a ton of hp on the d17. I was running 7 psi on stock intake mani, and a piggy back. I've done the standalone and y8 mani so I can push more boost through it.

I don't mind helping you at all, don't get me wrong. But with me helping you I would rather help you with specific questions if you have them instead of basic turbo stuff. It just works better that way.

I'm using EMS but only because I got it for a steal. K-pro is more user friendly, but in my opinion neither are too terribly complicated, the software just takes some getting used to. If I was going back to buying new I would K-pro. Its cheaper, easier to tune by yourself if you need to and more versatile with engines. Like you can do a k-swap and use the same k-pro.

 
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Oh yeah.. srt-4 injectors are PLEANTY of fuel for 10 psi. With the addition of a rising rate FPR those injectors are good for way over 250 hp, I've heard closer to 300, but I'm not there so I dunno.

 
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No i totally understand, specific questions are good
I was just getting an idea like i said..... i'm all up for self research think you learn more that way.
Anyway... i've done the research on k-pro and EMS and i really don't know what to do. Like you say k-pro is simpler... but to me they all look really complicated. can you point me in the direction of some links on how to use it, i'm at work thats all so cant access many sites.
As for the injectors does it matter what CC i get then? if they all flow the same due to the pump resriction?

Oh and Y8 intake? is it worth the hassle to get it to fit? i can pick one of these up real cheap. ( my buddy stripping his old 98)
So, does it help with turbo apps? and obvious question but will the Dezod kit fit if i change the oriantaion of the throttle body?
Or will i have to mod some of the charge piping?


Cheers again baron.

Tom

 
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Yes, flow matters on injectors. Here.

http://injector-rehab.com/issg/

 
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Came out at 426cc for 200HP.... so get SRT-4 injectors around that cc area give or take 50cc either way will be ok?



Tom

 
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Use .6 for the BSFC and 200whp requires around 396cc. SRT-4 injectors flow 490cc at stock (43psi) fuel pressure which means you will have plenty of room with them on a stock fuel system.

 
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Honestly I couldn't tell you a lick of how k-pro works. I've looked at the software but since I don't have it I've never tried tuning on it. I just know that the software is much simpler than EMS from second hand knowledge. I know a bit about how EMS works because I've dealt with it. Tuning takes a lot of researching and basically someone showing you how to do it to get the hang of what needs to do what. Basics aren't that hard though and with k-pro there quite a few people who would prolly be willing to help you tune it via email just enough until you can find a tuner. As for which to pick, its totally up to you. K-pro automatically throws CEL's in case something goes wrong, but EMS can too you just have to manually configure them. EMS has nitrous and I wanna say some launch controls that K-pro doesn't have and maybe a few other little features but other than those two they do the same thing.

SRT injectors should do you just fine. I'm running the small ones (525) with stock pressure through a walbro pump and hit 200 hp. I don't know exactly what the duty cycle was but it was crazy low, I wanna say somewhere in the 50-ish % range through most of the map. And like I said, if you up the pressure with a rising rate FPR they will flow above and beyond what you need.

 
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Oh yeah.. the y8 mani is nice. It flows better than the d17 one and it won't explode under pressure, but its not without its flaws. 1. You can't use the stock throttle body without custom work. 2. The d16 TB has issues I never could get figured out. 3. If you have EGR you HAVE to disable it, with a standalone its not an issue, it's a checkbox away from being turned off. Those are the big ones. I just got one I had modified to fit the d17 TB back from the welder. The guy that did it is one of the few that does custom stuff for the EM2. I have a thread about it on 7thgenhonda.com in the swap and f/i section. You can check it out there, I've got the same username.

The charge piping does have to be modded a little but its nothing big an angle grinder can't fix.

Oh and another note. Invest in an open element GM threaded IAT sensor. They aren't that expensive and its a lot less of a headache than trying to deal with the stock plastic one. You'll need to weld a bung in your piping, but no biggie. Cheap insurance
Click Me

 
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Ok thanks, i'll take a look at some 490cc injectors about £240 deliverd

Anyway to keep the CEL's at bay? and do you reccommend getting someone in the know about tuning Honda's to get my K-PRo going properly? i mean if i can just get the thing running that'll be ok and i'll take it to a tuner.
But i'm one of those people who likes to D.I.Y it so then i know how to make it better... because iv'e done it ( if you know what i mean)
I'm going to run 490cc SRT-4 injectors and stock pump Foos says it'll be good so ill stick with that.

So..... i'll think about k-pro later on maybe will be easier, wish there was some turbo D.I.Y's so i could see....... Hmmm mayb's i'll make one when im done.
Anywaysss.... My endless questions haha, (Thanks for answering baron)
I do want a Y8 mani but living in the UK its hard to find someone to mod EM2's what needs doing to make the y8 fit on stock TB, and apart from that does it wire up sensors and so wise?
I mean im sure it will but just thought i'd be sure to ask. Also you say weld a bung were abouts does it need to go? and obviously just wires straight into the old wire i just stripped from the plastic sensor.

Thanks again.... honestly baron you've made me feel very welcome and are helping me out with almost all my problems... hope i havent taken to much of your time

Cheers,
Tom

 
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Turbo DIYs??? Take a look at my ginormous thread. Everything you need to know about how to (and how not to) strap a turbo on to a D17 is in there. It's linked in my sig. The Speedfoos Turbo and Everything else thread. I started the build while I was in the UK and finished it here.

 
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Appreciate that. Nope, im not one of them... i drive a D17 powered civic myself.

 
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I know i meant something along the lines of the dezod kit.... but i've taken numerous looks at your turbo thread will have to study it in detail at some point... found a generic turbo guide for Honda's.... explaining moving the map sensor and drilling the oil pan and lines so thats that bit sorted