dswami1

anyone know how to increase low end torque on our D17? I see almost all modifications that are available allow for increasing top end power, and almost always at the expense of low end torque. This includes headers and exhaust. The thing is, in everyday driving, its the low end torque that helps the most (2000-3500 rpm). I really couldn't care less about the torque/power output above 4000 rpm. I NEVER go that high anyways, waste of gas.

I recently found out that smaller diameter pipes actually increase low end torque, and hurt higher rpm torque. Likewise, larger diameter piping actually hurts low end torque and allows for more power at higher rpms. I feel dumb for buying a DC SCS catback last year.

anyways, anyone know how to increase low end torque?

This is a list of stuff that is known to hurt low end torque:
1) larger diameter exhaust piping on n/a
2) 4-1 headers with short, but large diameter pipes
3) camshaft with larger lift/longer duration
4) larger valves in engine head
5) large turbocharger (from backpressure)

All this stuff makes me think that maybe Honda had everything right from stock, to make it best for daily driving???

If anyone can help that would be awesome.

Envy

iTrader: (1)

Hondas are made to rev.......
why do you think the D17 redlines at 6.8k, the k20a2 at 8k, and the F20C at 9k?
Hondas are not torque monsters

most torque monsters cannot rev
and vice versa

if you want more torque from a honda motor, put in a k24, it has more displacement.
basically as a GENERAL rule (not always true) large displacement engines do not rev but make gobs of torque. Small displacement rev to make power, but fail to make torque. this is because torque is the amount of pressure exerted by a firing piston, and the more cc's the engine/cylinder holds, the more ingredients for controlled expolsion will be in there, creating more force.

so to get more torque
increase displacement
or
increase backpressure via small diameter piping, a good intake, good fuel injection/management, possibly a small turbo that will increase backpressure at lower revs but yet open up for power at high revs.

dswami1

I would be so down for a k20 or k24 if only I could have all rubber bushings for motor mounts....those hasport polyuro bushings would transfer too much vibration to the car....hate vibration... unless someone who swapped found a way to make the car run smooth as stock...?



I think i heard a d17 with a t25 turbocharger starts to run boost somewhere around 2500 rpm...which would be good cuz the torque would substantially increase around this range...anyone know if this is tru?

emjay

iTrader: (2)

yep t25 will give u tons of ur fun low end torque but suffer high end ... if ur gonna go boost with what u descride how u wanna stay under 4 grand .. definately piece together a custom kit t25 ~2000 ull be satisfied and enjoy ur DD cuz u get to go pshhhhhhhh

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

no replacement for displacement lol

Unevolved

Man, this thread is classic. I was laughing even before I opened the thread.

Your best bet is to just come to terms with the fact that your Honda will not make torque. Period. I have a manual, I don't know about you, so just bear with me. Since our cars don't have any power below 2500rpm, why drive in that range? Use a lower gear. Driving down the street at 3500-4000rpm isn't going to hurt the engine, it's a Honda.

Use what you've got.

02BLKCIVIC

iTrader: (8)

never heard that before

dswami1

I've been thinking about this a lot...I originally wanted to make a costum t25 turbo kit...but i realized that boost would stress the engine, unless I build the engine with forged internal components and lower the compression ratio

the other option could be to build a d17 with high compression pistons, and bore out the cylinders using sleeves to increase displacement, lightened connecting rods, stock camshaft to keep low end torque, lightened flywheel...but this might not be worth it in terms of the cost...plus I don't think this will increase my torque that much anyways.

I could swap k20, but I want it to ride like stock (like it freakin came out of a honda factory with a k20 in it...sorry i'm picky like that) so I would probably have to buy hasport mounts and have custom rubber bushings made for the mounts, on top of all that, I would probably have to change my suspension to a different setup because of the increased wieght up in the front of the car. I would probably have to account for the increased understeer from the added wieght.

yea yea yea, i know i can buy a different car...but i like to think even our 7th gen civic has potential to be a high performance and comfortable car with the right modifications...

02BLKCIVIC

iTrader: (8)

lol k

modoman

iTrader: (6)

buy a diesel truck. you won't get over 3000 rpm!

DsevenEm2

iTrader: (6)

Yea.. and with the cost of alot of money, pain and suffering. Its not that easy. This 7th gen motor is/was a completely redesigned machine when it came out. For the most part. What you said earlier was spot on. The engineers made it to be the best possible 1.7 that they could. They didn't make it to be a high performer, they made it an economical, comfortable, good looking DD.

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

I ate 6 pounds of cat litter today. I have a lot of lowend torque.

/thread

+MM+

Geez, with all this talk about swaps and turbos, it sounds as if you have money to burn. I think you hit the nail on the head here. Take that cash you would waste on modifying your Civic and put it towards something more upscale. Something with a larger 4 cylinder or even a 6 and a nicer interior. Maybe an RSX? I have slowly found out the hard way that sinking money into these cars does not pay off.

dswami1

the more moving parts in a car, the more the maintanence, the easier things can fail....probably not gonna do turbo

haha i'm probably gonna end up leaving the car stock with an intake....

every route has disadvantages

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

sounds good. you will save yourself alot of trouble.

dswami1

eh oh well...at least i got good milage... actually comes in handy these days

DefiantOne

i got a headache reading this

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

Try eating cat litter. If you thought it was hard going down, just wait until it's ready to come out....

dswami1

?????


This can actually be helpful to people...At least some who doesn't know what they are doing, like I was a couple years go, would know what to expect after spending thousands of dollars on mods, after reading my first post. Those common mods are beneficial only to a certain group of people.

maverick27

There is a replacement for displacement. It's called turbos and technology...

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

what happens until the turbo spools, nothing? yea. what if he doesnt wanna drive above 4k rpms all the time

Unevolved

To a certain extent. But if you're looking for brute torque and force, compression in a can (turbo) isn't going to do the trick.

maverick27

Twin turbo?...one spools at 2000rpm and the other at 5000rpm. It can be done ona civic.

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

But it shouldn't.

Unevolved

Good luck fitting two turbos in that engine bay and still keeping it a daily.

gelshmoff

iTrader: (1)

how "small" is a small turbo, though? sorry for the newb questions, but what is the smallest one on the market?

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

IDK, I've seen little GT15s on Volvos that look like a travel hairdryer, but here.




That was from here:

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/i...t-turbocharger

lordhelmet

iTrader: (3)

^^^ That's awesome. It seems small enough to tuck into the engine compartment somewhere that would never be seen.

gelshmoff

iTrader: (1)

yeah, i woudn't mind one of those...but cost vs. power....meh

ugabuga

supercharge it for low end torque, although I think it already has quite a lot of low end torque ... well my other car has NO torque until the turbo kicks in so may not the best basis for comparison but still ....