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I was just checking to see if amazon.com maybe had 5w-20 synthetic motor oil (no one else seems to have it), and after searching I got back a sponsored link to this page:

http://www.syntheticoiltech.com/oil/jdupp/ford5w20.htm

It claims that Honda (and Ford) only say that our cars require 5w-20 motor oil, because it helps make the fuel economy better in government ratings, and that our engines are just the same as previous model years that took 5w-30.

Does anybody have any opinions on this? Is 5w-20 a lot thinner than 5w-30 or is it really just a minor difference, to help get slightly better mileage?

 
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%W20 is like pour water in your engine..it is very thin..
I use Amsoil Full synthertic 5W30 even though they make a 5W20.

I drive my car a little harder than the normal person.

 
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7th gen engine is NOT the same as 6th gen engine.

--> moved to tech

 
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I just got thorugh puttin Catsrol Synteck 10W-30 in my car...was that a big no-no? or is that ok to use.?
Randall

 
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all engines are TUNED to run best with a certain kind of oil, meaning, they get the best mileage, have the best heat transfer, the right amount of friction, etc. use what the manufacturer says, yeah, so its thin, that just goes to show you how well our engines run. now, it is(pauses) ok(pauses) to run a little thicker oil, like 5w30 like previously mentioned in our engines, but a large jump from 5w20 to 10w30 will reduce fuel economy, it may not run as smoothly, and will affect other things. granted, the world will not come to an end, and you will not blown an engine over it, however, if something would go wrong, and they happened to find out that you used an oil other than the viscosity suggested, they CAN void the warranty and deny a repair

 
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well heres my experience with different oils
10w30 it took a little longer for my car to rev up.. so i changed the oil again
5w30 it was better than the 10w30 by a lot, altho it was kinda sluggish at the higher powerband
5w20 i like this stuff, car revs up predictably and quickly

 
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i use 5-30.. even the honda techs tell you to switch after warranty... even lube place guys tell me too... i changed just cause of turbo... but maybe i should try an oil change at 5-20 again.. its SOOO thin.. i like 5-30.. cheaper too...

 
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heheh what do u mean its cheaper?!?! i only pay $1/qt

 
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Why would anyone want to put anything else then what's recommended? Unless you mod it up. But I still have a question though? Should we use Full Syn, Syn Blend, regular oil, or that Geniune Honda motor oil? Which would prolong the engine the best, for the money?

 
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I use 10w 30 and car runs smoother than ever!!

 
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i've been using 5w-30 ever since we got the car... recently i just bought some 5w-20 because the actually just started to sell them a few months ago at the local auto stores... i'll see if my mileage increases... i get about 24-25mpg driving 95% city... i hope i get just a little more with 5w-20...

 
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is the honda 5w20 a synthetic oil?

 
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If you read the page I linked, you'll see they say the exact opposite of what you are saying... they claim that as long as the oil is API approved, that no warranty will be voided

 
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I don't think it is... There is really no reason to use synthetic oil for our cars, aside from the extended usage benefits of it. So unless you are really forgetful, and dont change your oil, ever, there is no need for it... HOWEVER, i really want to use some, just so i get that special feeling of doing something good for my car

 
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anyone know where I can get some 0w20 mobil 1 for cheap?

 
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i never heard of 0w20... mobil 1 u are just paying for the name...

 
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This subject has come up before and I think I can add a little bit of info that will help.

Please read this closely and then read it again: 5W-20 is only a recommendation. No where does your warranty or owners manual make it mandatory that you use this oil. Your warranty will not be voided by using something else. The manual does not say you must us it or that it is required. It's like your mother telling you to take a jacket with you on a warm day - thanks for the thought but I'll be just fine without it.

I am a member of another forum where all we do is discuss just motor oil based on used oil analysis from actual member cars done in independent labs.

Here is the skinny on 5W-20. It is a good oil but because it is watery thin it has extra additives to help it along. So while it is good, it already starts off thiner than other oils and makes up for it with a robust additive/detergent package. Would I use it in my EX? Not a chance because the car isn't driven like it belongs to some little old lady. I doubt that very few of us drive that way. If you want to use it I'd suggest changing it every 5k. BTW, there are no long term, actual user test results on this oil. No one knows how this oil will protect your engine 80k miles from now or if you'll have premature wear.

A better grade for "lively" engines would be 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30 or even 0W-40. You can use these with absolute confidence that you engine is receiving maximum protection with these viscosities.

If you want to use regular oil, change it every 5k. Avoid blended oils because they are a marketing gimmick. 1% syn oil makes it a blend but the manufacturers won't reveal the percentage in their recipes. Avoid these.

Syn oils are the best. Even the most die hard oil geeks do not dispute that syns offer better long term protection. You will pay $5 qt unless you go to Wally Word but syns are worth it. If you really romp on your motor syns offer a more uniform detergent/additive package and offer better high end protection. Viper, Porsche and Corvette and factory filled with Mobil 1.

Between syns, Redline, Amsoil, Royal Purple, Mobil 1 are all top quality and peform quite well in tests. You can have complete confidence in them.

I use Mobil 1 but just bought 2 cases of Castrol Syntec 0W-30 made in Germany. It's hard to find but seems to be, at this point, a better oil than the one made in the US.

Use the 5W-20 if it will help you sleep at night but there is no compelling reason to use it. Mobil 1 0W-20 is great if you can find it. For most Civic owners I'd recommend Mobil 1 5W-30. Without getting into a lot of technical stuff, it is a "thin" 30W (more like a 25W when it gets hot) and can be used year round. If you can find the German Castrol buy it because it's a "thick" oil i.e., 35W. In the used oil analysis I've read Civic engines love this stuff.

BTW, use a good filter. Leave the orange ones on the shelf because better filters can be had for only a little more. I can't think of a filter that performs as poorly as the orange ones.

Finally, don't take what the manual says as gospel. It has to appeal to all users in a market. You'd maintain your Civic in Alaska differently than if you lived in Arizona. The manual wants you to use Honda brake fluid but doesn't tell you what's wrong with some other DOT 3 or 4 fluid. Same with their power steering fluid. And the same with their oil.

 
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Wow. Thank you for the informative response...

Which oil out of the four you listed (0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30, 0W-40) has the closest viscosity to the 5W-20?

Also, for my last oil changed I made sure to steer clear of a Fram filter (the Orange one), and instead went for the almost 3x as expensive, Mobil 1 filter, which I've heard are very good. What is wrong with the Fram filters, though?

 
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supz,

Great choice on the M1 filter! It's a tiny little thing, isn't it?

There is nothing "wrong" with Fram but when you take one apart and compare its filtering media, how it's assembled and the quality of the bypass valve with other filters, it simply doesn't compare. There are others that are better, IMO.

On the more costly side but very good are Mobil 1, Amsoil and K&N. Put one of these in and you can rest assured that you've found filter nirvana giving you terrific protection. These give you a good blend of filtering and high flow rate

If you don't want to spend as much but still want a great filter pick up a Napa Gold/Wix filter or a Purolator PureOne. Even the factory filter is worthwhile.

With regard to viscosity, any of the 30 weight oils are closer to 20. According to the powers that be, there is a viscosity range for oil. For example, a 30 weight can be anywhere from a 27 to a 35 and still be called a 30 weight, although I don't have the exact figures in front of me. The same thing with 40 weight and so on. The acceptable range for a 20 weight could be from 17 to 25.

Mobil 1 is a "thin" oil meaning it stays within grade when at normal operating temps but isn't as thick as other oils, also in grade. That's not a bad thing but rather just more consumer info allowing you to make an informed purchase. If you're running a turbo and high RPMs, their European spec 0W-40 might be the ticket if you live in Arizona where they see daily outside temps over 100 degress.

I'd recommend Mobil 1 0W-30 or 5W-30 for year round protection for most users. It's easy to find and can be had in economical 5 qt jugs at Wally World. It will peform nicely with your Mobil 1 filter.

 
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So... no Fram... no 5W-20... but... Mobil 1, and 5W-30... alright man... I just got an oil change, it was at Honda... and Honda did it for free... next time. Alright. Thanks... I guess you're right about the 5W-20, and how that's for people, "Granny Shiftin" HAHAHA!!! Thanks. Wow... I feel so informed!

 
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Ahh flashlightboy must be a member of BOBISTHEOILGUY forum hehe. Good site for sure if your into oil analysis and such. BTW, I think I read somewhere on that site that Honda 5w-20 is a thick oil, almost 5w-30 thickness.

 
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No compelling reason to use it? How about because the designer and builder of the engine tells you that is what you are supposed to use.

It's not like Honda isn't known for making some of the most reliable and durable engines on the face of the f-in earth.

And this oil debate is like beating a dead horse. Change the oil on a regular basis and you'll be fine....

Oh, and far as the I am a hard driver and blah, blah, blah, We all drive ECONOMY cars with little 100hp 4-bangers...You don't need oil that is $5 bucks a quart.....

 
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Mbow,

You've said some things I agree with and made others that I don't think were carefully considered.

Yes the oil should be changed regularly, regardless of what kind of oil you use. And you don't need $5 qt oil either but there are good reasons why you should consider syns before deciding that they are not suited for your application.

The things I disgree with is the statement that because Honda built the engine whatever they say should be elevated up there along with mom, baseball and apple pie. Logically speaking that is not a very good reason at all.

Honda does make reliable engines but with 5W-20 oil we're facing a new oil. Honda says that durability of their engines isn't affected but what does that mean? Seriously, do you think that means your engine will last 200k miles? Or could it mean that it will only last until the warranty expires? You really don't know and until Honda releases their durability tests, we won't know either.

I seriously doubt that even you believe your own statement about Honda knowing what's best. You're not driving a 100% stock car and by your own definition, you've altered that "perfect package" that Honda designer and builders sold to you.

By changing your wheels and tires and altering your stereo do you believe that you've done anything wrong? I don't and you don't either. My point is that Honda only 'recommends" a certain viscosity; it is not mandatory. If it was the only fluid that protected your engine, Honda would have to say so but that would subject them to increased Federal scrutiny. Honda can't make that claim because they'd get hauled into court rather quickly. Instead, they say things similar to "Honda recommends" or "Honda fluids are designed..." " Honda fluids will give you the same protection as the factory..."

Finally, we all don't drive 100 hp economy cars. A more correct statement would be that we drive economy sized cars with various hp. A Civic engine typically is running higher RPMs at highway speeds that your typical V6 or V8 and because of the little engines, they have a high oil circulation rate.

 
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first the smaller the viscosity, the thinner it is. our engines are small so you'd use a thinner oil to get into all the smaller moving parts. also, i use synthetics here in NY, mainly due to the sever climate changes; july it was 90, and in january it will be below 0. btw, the break-in oil that is used on the d17 is a full synthetic.

 
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I look at it this way (for our cars at least)... I've heard a ton of reports about the way our engines are built. For example, the combustion chambers are shaped in such a way that it squishes the sides so that you don't lose compression. Honda used tighter tolerances everywhere. The crank shaft bearing surfaces have tiny little bumps engraved into them so that the oil floats on them and carries the load (not the metal to metal mating). All of these little improvements mean that our D17's are more complicated than their predecessor D16's. The tighter tolerances also mean that we can use a thinner oil. The thiner oil will seal the various gaps just as well as a thicker oil. Actually, a thicker oil may have a tough time getting in to some of those gaps.

Anyway, here's the thing... What do you go by? Until there are tests done to prove that a thicker oil is better I would follow the manual. Duh! You're saying the opposite. Use a thicker oil until Honda releases their test data? Yeah dude, whatever. What if their test data says 5W-30 wears the engine out quicker. Then where will you be? Hiding behind a rock, that's where. Until I see it proven that we should use a thicker oil I will use 5W-20.

I've done some of my own little tests and my engine performs better with 5W-20 than 5W-30. Starts easier. Revs easier. Less restriction to movement since the viscosity os lower. As long as you're not losing compression then the lower the viscosity the better IMO.

Oh yeah, I use Motorcraft Synthetic-Blend @ 1.77 from Wal Mart and their SuperTech Filter (Bosch Premium basically). The up size one for more filtering area and more oil capacity. So yeah, I think my combination is a pretty good one for a stock engine. Even a lightly modified engine.

 
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Grey,

You're thinking about this correctly but your conclusions need a little polishing. BTW, I like the extra capacity filter. It's a good idea although I'd stay away from blended oils.

Your seat-of-the-pants testing of thinner oils giving greater omph is correct. Thinner oils have less friction and as you've observed, less fricition allows the engine to rev faster/quicker. That's why most race teams use a very thin straight weight oil for qualifiying. These oils can be as thin as 10W or even 20W. The reason why race oils aren't used for street use is because they do not have the detergent packages that are necessary. The oils get changed so frequently that an additive package is unneccesary. Now when it comes to race day the thin oil is nowhere to be found because it doesn't have the long term protection that's required. Some teams are using a 50W or even a 60W oil.

You have indeed figured out part of the thin oil mystery. Honda recommends the 5W-20 as a compromise. Your use may require a thicker oil. Thin oils offer quicker lubrication at start up and less friction.

I do agree with your comment that you'll continue to use the 5W-20 until it's proven that a thicker oil is better. At least you're open to the idea of a thicker oil...and there are used oil analysis of both thin and thick oils in Civic engines. Everyday that someone else posts a UOA is a better day for building an informative database. So far, 5W-20 is performing fine although at the end of 5k miles it doesn't look like it will protect the engine as well until the 7.5k Honda recommended change interval. Other, thicker, oils are showing that they can run a longer drain interval while offering tremendous protection.

Your thick v. thin comment is heading in the right direction and at some point the friction of a thicker oil causes too much friction. Your MPG decreases, your oil pressure rises and your engine runs hotter. 30W, thin 40W oils don't cause these types of problems but a 50W does. That's why Mobil 1 15W-50 isn't used in a street Civic or Castrol Syntec 5W-50 for that matter. These thick oils are generally used in air cooled engines.

Finally, the D17 engine in the US Civics is the same as in Japan and Europe but only in the US does Honda recommend the 5W-20. Thicker oils are recommended in other parts of the world. The engines are the same, the tolerances the same but why the different recommendations? My theory is that it's done for a couple of reasons. First, it raises the overall corporate fuel mileage for Honda which is a good thing for them along with giving them the Ultra Low Emission Vehicle sticker. More sinister is that in the US we have the highest per capita income in the world and can afford to buy another Civic when they wear out. An auto manufacturer can't afford to stay in business if their cars lasts forever, can they?

Performance v. durability. It's all a compromise...like so many other things.

 
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I didn't know that the D17's in Europe and in Japan are reccomended to run a 5W-30 weight oil? Can anyone else verify this? If that's true, then there must be another reason that the US Civics are reccomended to run this oil.

Anyway, I change my oil at 3,000 miles. As cheap as it and the filter is I can afford to do so. I'm at 34,000 miles now and my engine is beating strong. On another note, the transmition is going... Kinda sucks, but I abuse it.

 
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Grey,

In an even more diabolical revelation, Honda retro-graded the viscosity requirements for their cars. For the past couple of years they recommended and printed the 5W-30 requirement in various manuals, for Civics and otherwise. Poof! All of a sudden what received the thicker recommendation received the thinner one.

No explanation was given other than the oil was compatible and OK to use. Yesterday it was alright to use the thick stuff and today it isn't? Weird indeed.

Adding further to the 5W-30 blessing is the Honda Owner Link. For my Civic, purchased 7-31-03, they recommend 5W-30. Not 20, but 30! No other oil besides 30 is listed. Now how's that?

 
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Really? You have a 2003 and they reccomend 5W-30 now? Hmm... Yeah, must be some other factor. Non-engineering related. Looks like it at least...

 
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I never knew that owner link existed... I just signed up, and this is pretty cool Tells me all sorts of stuff about my car, and pay my bill online. Thanks for mentioning it.