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Lowering your car would help, but not much, what makes the car handle like **** at that speed is the fact that it is getting so much air going under it that it's being pushed off the ground, SO, that air needs to be ducted away from the underside of the car, also car's are actually shaped kinda like airplane wings, which is another reason why the tend to lift up at higher speeds. If you could find a way to cover up the bottom of the car, so air can't get undeneath it would help (like cover your car with skid plates...)

 
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its nice to see someone who has some experience on how it feels to run a stock car at a Speedway. the wall is either the inside retaining wall or the outside retaining wall. "Bank" is the angle of the track. typical in car temps range from 105-120 degrees. a driver will lose 5-15 lbs a race in sweat alone.

 
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You want your car to stick to the ground better at high speeds? Get an Air Dam.

See that part right behind the bumper going straight down? thats an Air Dam.
it stops air from going under the car and creates a slight Vacuum under the car to help hold it to the ground. The down side of it is that it increaces Drag, and thus slows you down and reduces your top speed.


this one has it as part of the bumper.


heres one attached to a 1st gen RX7

You can Barly see the one on this GTi


the importatn thing is that it extends Straight down. if its at an angle(forwards or backwards) it can cause other problems, like Excessive drag, and the loss of the Vacuum

 
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Look at the shape of the OEM wing. It is flat on the top yet curved on the bottom. This is a simple wing generating downforce. The bottom of the wing is curved. This is a longer path than the flat top of the wing. It causes the air to speed up along this longer path beneath the wing. This faster moving air is less dense. This pressure differential causes the wing to be sucked/pushed down. Here's a quick two minute drawing:

 
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While the effect is small it is still measurable.

 
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measureable??? to what degree? everything is measurable. the weight of a feather is measurable. i still go with my dad's aerospace degree desicion: the effect of the of a wing on a car is to small to effect it. how fast does a plane go before the wings produce enough lift to make it fly? and why do you need this downforce at such high speeds? so you can roll your vehicle on an attempted turn? not even pro drivers try taking huge turns at 100+ mph. unless it's a banked turn or its a very wide turn. anyways, the wing/spoiler is not going to help! it's rice. get over it.

-DINGALING

 
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Try to keep the discussion civil and educated. I bought my car without the wing. I then bought the OEM Honda wing and had it installed professionally. I noticed a small change in the way the car felt at speed on the highway. That is my opinion, try to be less offensive when responding to it.

 
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i did not mean to offend anyone. it's just a simple fact, that the performance gain is going to be all in your head. it's just like a body kit. most do nothing. if anything they hinder your performance... and how big are the wings on airplanes or f1 cars in comparison to the body? they are absolutely huge. you may feel a small bit of gained performance, but in a race or a life or death situation were a quick turn is needed, do you honestly believe that your oem spoiler is going to save you?

-DINGALING

 
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I think we both (as well as anyone reading this thread) know the answer to that question. Frankly- I put the wing on because I like how it looks. To me it was a purely cosmetic decision. I even thought about the added weight as a negative before hand. I went as far as to search for a carbon fiber OEM replica to avoid added weight. In reality it only weighs about six pounds- roughly the weight of a single gallon of gas. So weight isn't much of a big deal.

I always assumed that factory spoilers are just for show. That was my expectation going into my purchasing decision. That is why I was in fact surprised when I did notice a small improvement in stability. I repeat SMALL improvement. I'm not the only one who has added an OEM spoiler. Maybe someone else who has actually driven thier car before and after the addition can add something here.

As far as my cars cornering prowess, the only thing that improved that so far was getting rid of the factory "ice-skates" and getting myself some proper O.Z. 17" rims and some Z rated Nitto tires.

 
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battle won. good show for admiting my point though. seriously, it takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. or in your case, just mostly. btw, there's no diss intended in this post

-DINGALING

 
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Where have I backed up or reversed any point that I have made? You have a real condescending tone inherent in all of your posts. As two educated people it should be obvious, facts are facts and opinions are opinions. As far as me admitting your point, all I did was elaborate for you what I had already been stating from the start. Your talking like I admitted I was wrong is pretty pompous of you. When I am wrong about something I will CLEARLY admit it. Go back and reread MY posts. It seems like you are blurring the line between what I have said and what other people have said. I am pretty careful about stating facts as facts and opinions as opinions. While you can argue facts, it is fruitless to argue opinions. When it comes to opinions you can choose to agree, disagree, or pursuade. I repeat, go reread MY posts and only MY posts. If you see any incorrect FACTS that I have posted it is now YOUR duty to bring them up and expose them for everyone. At that hypothetical point, I will retract said incorrect statement. Until then you can save your elementary debating skills for someone more on your own level.

 
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by pressing the trunk down, you are effectively relieving pressure on your front end...now forgive me if i'm wrong, but isn't that the business end of the car, i mean, the car is front wheel drive and steered by the front wheels...remind me why you want this extra pressure in the back. i mean, if you want that, then just put your gallon of gas in the back, save a hundred bucks, and have a way to drive your tail back to a gas station. not to mention the drag that was just removed from your car. elementry? now who's be uncivil? i mean, if you want me to go back and re-read your posts, make sure YOU DO TOO!

 
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Here's what I say (read my sig)

 
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jeeze people, i was going to comment on the subject, but now im kinda afraid to... damn

 
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I will say this again. Putting a spolier on the rear of a FWD car, might still be a good thing to do IF it caues the car to behave in a more neutral way. Just cause you're pushing down on the back, doesn't mean the front is lifting up at all, Also, it's not like 100% of that downforce is going to the back of the vehicle. Lastly, most bolt on wings these days are going to be cosmetic, as well as most oem factory wings, except on higher priced vehicels such as porche's or lamborghini's.

Chances are, what you feel while driving is infact your spoiler, if it was generating 20lbs of downforce, that would be noticeable (at least I can notice that much added weight.) Now 20'lbs isn't much for a wing to generate. Real wings generate something to the effect of hundreds of pounds of downforce (f1 cars generate thousands)

You both seem to be intelligent people who've both seemed to misunderstand each other, I say you both get on AIM and sort this out.

-Mark

 
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Here is my first post in this thread. Look carefully and you'll see that I am only sharing MY OPINION of an unscientific seat of the pants feel.


Here is the next thing I said. I am only pointing out the shape of the wing. That is a fact. If you bother to look at the actual wing and my drawing, you can see that it is POSSIBLE for a small effect to occur at highway speeds.


Notice how I am also very quick to be clear on what I am stating:


Here's the point where you take this thread for a negative turn. Your tone becomes very condescending and the discussion becomes personal.


"It's rice. get over it" That's a nice way to have an adult discussion. Next, I warn you that your being immature:


Instead of seeing where certain points of ours actually come into alignment, you choose to maintain your argumentative tone.

That is the point where YOU say EXACTLY what I have said from the get go. "you may feel a small bit of gained performance" Those are your words. They are also NO different from anything that I said. Yet you keep making some point about a cars cornering ability. You act is if I had ever said anything on the subject, when I in fact DID NOT.


THEN YOU GO AND SAY THIS:

YOU DON'T PLAY WELL WITH OTHERS DO YOU? Seriously, you keep driving your point home like it is any different from what I have said.

Maybe your stuck on the first post in this thread:


I'm sorry but you strut around like your some kind of Peacock.

I not only remember what I say after I say it, but in fact have re-read my posts. Stop trying to put on a show here. YOU ARE ARGUING AN OPINION. The only reason I have even responded to you is the simple fact that you decided to argue MY OPINION.

Now knock it off and let this thread continue in an infomative way. If you need to further prove your point (that you in some ways seem to agree with me anyway) you can PM ME.

 
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bah, i enjoyed ripping him new one on the message board.

-DINGALING

 
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I see no new ones being ripped. You are a foolish foolish boy with a well chosen alias...

 
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all in fun. does nobody else have fun while they argue a point? gosh, why so uptight? btw, my "alias" "owns j00". <-- going newbie on you.

-DINGALING

 
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idiot

 
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Hey matrix, we know who's right here don't we...

 
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Thanks. I swear, talking to this kid makes me "feel like I'm taking crazy pills!!"

 
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whatever. u guys gang up as much as you like. the point still remains that the use of an oem spoiler is negilible. it's for looks. and if there is a performance gain, it's not anything that going to matter on cornering, WHICH IS WERE THE CIVIC IS SUPPOSED TO EXCEL... because you aren't going to be going 80+ miles an hour into a turn. realistically, 50 miles an hour into a sharp turn is tough to do, and the effect of the spoiler at 50 mph is going to be to little to judge. now, back to the last area you COULD argue the use of a oem spoiler. past 80 mph. the extra grip to the road isn't going to matter, because you aren't turning. like someone else said, get an air dam. with that said, double team all you like, because the facts aren't going to change. the spoiler is not going to help were you need it. it helps on the straight-a-ways, but the civic is NOT A STRAIGHT-A-WAY CAR. IT IS NOT A DRAG CAR. once you figure this out, then you will realize MY POINT/FACT

-DINGALING

 
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So your saying that youve never been on a highway turn or long stretch of road with twisties at 80mph? Man if thats true, then you need to get out more...

You ever tilt your hand downward out the window of your car when driving at a fast speed? That little amount of surface your hand has is enough to make you realize the effects of downforce. Now imagine what a full spoiler or wing can do. Also dont forget that a spoiler or wing has another purpose then just downforce, which is to decrease the vacuum affect from the car behind you(this is called drafting).

 
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flotsamm, you just gave me a headache. open an aerospace engineering book, and get back to me.

-DINGALING

 
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Actually drafting, is when you follow a car really closely, so you don't get any of the wind on your car, which makes your car able to accelerate better at higher speeds, since all that air isn't hitting you, so you stomp on the gas, and when you're just about to hit the person, you pull out from behind them, and pass me with your added speed.

It's the exact same thing people do in the tour de france, they stay behind people so they don't have to do all the work of breaking through all the air, since the person in front of them has already done it.

Lastly, I agree, that an OEM spoiler is basically useless, in fact, most of the parts we put on our cars are useless since we don't spend the time training to be able to push our cars to those new limits.

 
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funny how you change sides so quickly, renamazazo. oh well, atleast you're correct now.

-DINGALING

 
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shut up.

 
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there's a 10 mile windy road near my place. .. polomeras , in dublin. . maybe u kno it? i use to tear it up until i took a 15 mph turn at 30 .. that scared me for life. . i wanna go back , but im waiting for the right time. . whatever that means. . .i had a rear wing on . . but i took it off. .. imma go hit polomeras without the wing , then try again with it on . . .i wanna see if i feel a difference

 
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seriously, have you been beaten so badly that you are left with just a simple "idiot" and "shut up"? now who's being immature? maybe i should go your way and make a simple comeback for a simpleton.

your method of arguing sucks.

now, i'll go into detail. if you can't understand this then call your mom in the room, so she can define the word "of" for you. you go from an intelligible form of argument. a strong version, were you place yourself on a higher level, and pretend to be higher educated than you could possibly be, because you base your argument on an opinion. you've made it very clear that you want me to look bad because i made a comment on how it wouldn't make much of a difference. the fact that you are aloud to have an opinion isn't at stake here, the fact that your opinion is flawed at the very best is. your credibility has been shattered. you've stopped swimming, so you sink (as sharks do when the stop swimming) to a lower level of arguing. i call it "elementry" arguing. (isn't this cool how i can go back and re-use all your insults on YOU?) examples of elementry arguing: you stink, you are a doo doo head. i wish i could be as smart as matrix is, then i might make it past the first grade. whoops, a blow to your intelligence. you are just taking them left and right here, aren't you? i'll back off, so you can get off the ropes and make another go at me. just remember who floats like a butterfly and does your g/f.

-DINGALING