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Well, I have spent some time lurking and reading on this site. I generally don't post much, I prefer to read. Hope I'm posting this in the right place... I thought I'd share some experiences I have had with alternative refrigerants for Honda's and cars in general.

As most of you know, the AC in the civic leaves a bit to be desired, and obviously pulls a lot of power from the engine.

There IS a better solution! http://www.autocool-refrigerants.com/

I stared using this a few years ago, and it works better than R12 or R134. I put this in my 02 EX coupe, and it runs COOOOOL. Best of all, it runs at about 1/3rd the pressure and this means much less pull on the engine. Also, much less wear on the AC compressor.

The Autocool drops right in. You MUST remove the old R134 first! I can't say how, since it is illegal to purge it into the air. Have a garage empty the system for you. The Vics take 1 and 1/2 cans of autocool.

A good example is my brother's 03 RSX-S. It took almost 40 minutes to cool the car down in diamondbar. Now it takes 7.

It's money well spent, runs much cooler, with less stress on the car.

Check it out.

 
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That stuff is mostly made up of propane, but some people say 134a is unsafe also.

 
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Looks cool - but wondering why manufacturers do not use it already if its so good? Anyone in the HVAC field have any ideas??

 
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I saw this thing at walmart that was 20 bucks that said R134 A/c filler and it had a gauge on it.. anyone every use this?

 
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yeah, that's the refrigerant that they use in your car (all new cars to be exact).....R134a.

 
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There is also a product called Freeze12. It's basically the same as autocool. You can buy it locally if you look around. It's in a blue can.

Just remember, the system must be EMPTY before using this.

 
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Tinman - you have this in your civic? Does it seem noticably cooler? I want to try it out since our cars have such crappy A/C. It seems like a direct replacement. Wonder how much it would cost at an A/C shop to have them put this in....

 
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why do our cars have shitty ac when all the new cars use the same refrigerant? my friend's focus's ac cools down almost immediately, her lvl 2 is as strong as my half way line, and if I full blast my ac, its no where near her lvl 3! i'm soo pissed.

 
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Honda's never did have great A/C. My pevious 77 and 82 Accord was so-so at best. The autocool helped a lot with them.

I am using the autocool in my civic, my Mom's civic, my Brother's RSX.
They all cool WAYYY better than before, and have much less pull on the engine. I am now no longer scared to run the A/C. It make little impact on power/gas now.

Our civics use 1 and 1/2 cans. NO MORE! Overcharging will make it cool LESS!

If you can find a shop to put it in for you, that would be great. Most don't want to do it because there is no money to be made for them.
I did our cars myself.

 
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My previous vics had no real problems with cooling, but my 02 does. It takes me about 15 minutes to start getting comfortable after it sits in 100f+ temps in the sun. By that time I am home.

I will have to look into this autocool!

 
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Just did some searching and found this:

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html

This talks about the use of 12a refrigerant as a replacement to r134a and CFC-12. It goes to state that the use of 12a refrigerent in a vehicle which has r134a is not illegal - however certain states ban its use in motor vehicles (it goes on to list the states, all 18 of them).

What pisses me off is that Florida is one of them. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all about not breaking the law - but this definitely seems like something that is a better refrigerent than r134a. What the EPA seems to be worried about is the fact that its a hydrocarbon, ie flammable. I'm not sure what their reasoning is (who knows, big buisness likes to corrupt them).

In any case, I might see about getting one of my "shadetree" buddies to help me put this in my car...

 
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Interesting that R134 is more flammable than autocool, yet legal.

Read this page:

http://www.autocool-refrigerants.com...tm#tech%20page

Sometimes I think we (the public) are just being jerked around.

 
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Think other reson its been band is because of huffing. People like to get high on the stuff.

 
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so if my state(nc) is not listed as those 18 states, then am i free to go for this refrigerant?

our car in stock uses r134a and autocool is r12a, right?

whats downside of using autocool?
is it dangerous to the environment?
is it possible that using this makes bad gas such as poison material gets into the car when i turn on the a/c?
im just curious cuz im really newb at this stuff..

 
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oh sorry im messed up..
what are we getting?
autocool hc 12a? is it right one?
so we dont need any other materials but only 1.5 can of autocool hc 12a?
how does "dye charge" work?

so this is what i am supposed to order - Recharge Kit Plus for one car or truck, right?

 
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If your state is not listed, then you are legal.

You need an R134 adaptor hose and 2 cans of autocool 12a.

You don't need a dye charge, because the car is new. The dye charge has a red dye in it to help you find leaks.

So far there are no downsides to using autocool, and it's MUCH safer to the environment than both R12 freon or R134.

The A/C is a sealed system. It cannot make bad gas or poison get into the car. On top of that, our cars even have pollen filters in the air system. A nice touch for a budget car.

You will notice:

Colder A/C, and less drag on your engine.

I have been using this, and am VERY happy with it.

 
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oh thanks..is the installation difficult?
whats r134 adaptor hose?
and why dont i need a dye charge?
even if its a new car, there could be a leakage..hope not tho..lol
i just wanna be safer..if it cost 5 or 10 bucks more..
anyway can you just explain about installation a lil bit?
sorry but my english kinda sux so bad..so when i see a complex writing like the ones on that website, i become blind..lol

 
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Installation is actually very easy. The r134 hose will fit your car. For old cars that are pre- R134, you would need the R12 adaptor hose. This is just the hose that goes between the can and the car. The dye charge should not be used unless the system is old. You really should not have a leak in an A/C system that is less than 5 years old.

Installation is straight forward. First, you need to have the old R134 removed from your system. It is ILLEGAL to just bleed it into the air, and can be dangerous to YOU if you inhale any of it. Have a shop empty the system for you. Then simply hook up the first can of autocool and let it charge into the system. Then disconnect the hose, and put the second can on. Re-connect the hose to the car and let about half (by weight) into the system. Disconnect hose, put cap back on the valve, start car and enjoy a COLD A/C.

I can do this in 5 minutes, but I have done a lot of A/C's.

If you are not sure, let a shop do it for you.

 
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I emailed them about the legality of it. I'm not really sure what to believe when it comes to using this in automobiles. The reason that most states ban its use in automobiles is because the LEL for flashover in concentration is lower than that of R134A - so they feel that if a car with this gets in an accident that the possibility exists that it will catch fire or explode. They also said that local juristicions (ie your city or fire department) may outlaw its use in automobiles as well - not just the state. So whatever you do - BE CAREFUL about installing this. I'm not too worried about it blowing up, just the fact that you might get a fine.

I've also heard things that shops don't really like to touch this stuff because it can contaminate their equipment (which regularly uses R134a)....But I'm not a HVAC tech, so don't take my word for it, I just did some searching.....

 
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tinman..how do i measure a half of can only by weight?

opto_isolator..whats LEL for flashover? if im not too worried about it blowing up when i get in accident and i found the shop that will empty the system for me, then i can easily do this right?
just a refill, right?

what happens when i overcharged or undercharged(?) ?

 
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LEL - lower explosive limit. Its a term that defines how much of a concentration is required for it to ignite if there is a spark.

 
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for installing this thing how do we not bleed it into the air??

 
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what kit do we get??..the regular recharge kit?

 
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A shop can empty and reclaim the r134. I can obviously not tell you to bleed the system, that's illegal, even though most get bled into the air from rock punctures and accidents. What you do in your own backyard, however, I have no control over.

The regular recharge kit is all you need. Specify the r134 hose when ordering.

BTW, my brother is measuring a 20 mile increase per tank in fuel efficiency so far. He has A/C on every afternoon back from work. 32 mile each way. Not bad.

My civic is humming right along as well.

Anyway, this thread was meant to point out an alternative to what's in the already underpowered civic. PLEASE read all the webpages regarding this and make your own decision. This stuff works great, but it may not be for everyone. I really don't want to hear someone get hurt by doing this (wrong). So please read up on it and be careful. I have a lot of experience with A/C and think nothing of it, but it CAN be dangerous if you are not very careful.

 
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Sorry if this is a rather obvious question, but I feel compelled to ask anyway: use of this alternate refrigerant would void the factory warranty, wouldn't it?

Living in N TX, I would love to increase the efficiency of my AC (the heat index was 112 yesterday), but I am concerned about my warranty.

 
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ima do this after i got some money in my pocket

 
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Yes, if Honda has it their way, it would void the warranty. Even though it operates at a much lower pressure and does not eat the system in a few years. Of course, ANYTHING you do will void the warranty if they have it their way. I put better tires on my car, I'm sure they would argue if they could. Good thing for certain consumer protection laws.