Rep Power: 0

This will seem like a dumb question: Are there any issues with using ethanol free "unleaded plus" gas from an Ethanol Free gas station?

I drive a 2006 Civic EX and the handbook states that any octane number 87 or higher is acceptable. Obviously the ethanol free gas reflects how gas used to be prior to the addition of 10% ethanol. The "unleaded plus" is what throws me off at the ethanol free pump. The pump states that station should be used for motorcycles, boats, and classic cars.

 
Rep Power: 353

Yes you can use it

 
Rep Power: 518

And 10% Ethanol will not hurt the car one bit, it is made to burn it. May affect gas mileage a little, but won't hurt a darn thing.

15% won't hurt it either IMO, but I haven't looked for Hondas official words on what % they draw that line at.

Straight gasoline will net you a little better gas mileage.

 
Rep Power: 0

The "Plus" is just the level of gasoline, they usually sell it in regular, plus and premium - it's the octane level. It's probably 89 octane or so, your engine computer will detect the increase octane level and retard the timing and it will run fine. The station stating that it should be used in boats, motorcycles and classic cars is likely just marketing the gas to the people that need it, ethanol doesn't do well in those applications and the EPA really just doesn't care. I get around this by using an ethanol treatment in my lawnmower, jet ski and an older truck I own. As sl33py said, you can use it without any issue.

 
Rep Power: 190

There's a tiny hole in the wall cash-only gas station that advertises "Real Gas" meaning no ethanol near me. My first civic didn't mind it. I know it shouldn't cause a problem but for some reason it seemed to in my current civic. Using that gas I got two CELs (on two diff fillups) that eventually went away with other gas. Just my experience.

 
Rep Power: 0

Even I own Civic and I drive too on daily basis,I use ethanol free gas too,It's good haven't faced any problem up till now.

 
Rep Power: 812

the best gas for any car is no ethanol added, but it still needs to come from a quality source. mom and pop store is asking for trouble. all you get with ethanol is worse performance and worse mileage. there is a very noticable difference when using quality gas with and without ethanol added. even for a civic.

 
Rep Power: 188

What Civics adapt to different octanes and which don't? Are we talking knock sensor(s) in the block and/or an octane sensor in the fuel line? Guessing a 6th gen DX has nothing. I know it doesn't have a knock sensor

 
Rep Power: 0

Anything with EFI should be able to adjust to different octane ratings easily

 
Rep Power: 812

yeah the ecu will adjust ignition timing depending on the gas (and additives) used on most modern OBD cars.

 
Rep Power: 518

The only stock Hondas that need high octane are most of the Si series K engines, and the S2000, and they say so right on the fuel door when they do. (Now that I think of it, maybe some Preludes too? I don't remember. Dangit.)

The rest of the cars are made to run on 87 octane, plan and simple. Anything more is a waste of money.

If you want to spend an extra penny on a gallon, use Top Tier Gas. http://www.toptiergas.com/

Higher octane than needed won't gain you any power, the cars don't use max adaptive timing to take advantage of it. The cars that use a distributor could be bumped up maybe 2-4 degrees (if possible) to attempt to make some use of the higher octane though.
In fact, using too high octane fuel can cause some odd complaints, the fuel is harder to light off and can cause unstable initial idle/rough/misfires on startup.


But, hey, what do I know? I'm not an engineer, I'm just a dumb knuckledragging tech.



BTW, 6th gen EX uses a knock sensor.

HTH

 
Rep Power: 0

No, you're quite correct. But I think he's less concerned with chasing HP by buying higher octane fuels and more concerned with buying ethanol free fuel and his local source just happens to only carry it in Plus... for whatever reason. Still a good point to make for anyone else that might read over the thread and get the idea in their head that they might use a higher octane fuel. I had a high school chemistry teacher that tried to argue the point that you should buy premium b/c it was purer. No amount of explaining how his car would handle it could convince him otherwise. And a classmate got offended when I used the word "retard" while describing the timing
There's a lot of misinformation out there...

 
Rep Power: 518

It's all in how you say it. Don't say "weeeeetoddd". LOL

Try referring to a dual hard drive setup using the words "master" and "slave" in the company of certain people that know nothing about computers.

 
Rep Power: 518

Additives.
It has more additives.

When I worked for a Mazda dealer, we used to have carbon knock and noise problems due to carbon buildup on top of the pistons and in the ring lands, caused by additives in the fuel, and high octane gas aggravated it.
The additional additives were causing it, according to the manufacturer.

 
Rep Power: 0

had that same conversation last week

 
Rep Power: 0

Huh. Had I known, I could have further broken down his argument. Doubt it would have really made a difference to him in any case, as far as I know he still pisses away money at the pump buying premium to this day.

 
Rep Power: 204

I always use high octane gas for my bike even though it's 30+ years old. The way I understand it is high octane gas has more 'additives' to scrub the gas system clean. It would make sense that they recommend it for vehicles that sit for long periods of time, eg motorcycles, boats and classic cars.

I had to take the carbs on my bike apart a few times last spring. After 5 years of running nothing but high octane and draining the fuel system every winter the carbs were in brand new condition on the inside. No varnishing or gum anywhere inside the carbs.

 
Rep Power: 353

hope you know EZONE was being sarcastic... he's a certified honda mechanic that knows just about everything in a honda... lol

he's one of our top/most kowledgable members on this site.



thats what its called. in this context, its used as a VERB...which carries a definition of:

"delay or hold back in terms of progress, development, or accomplishment: his progress was retarded by his limp."

learn something new everyday huh?

 
Rep Power: 193

Hi uhh someone told me that ethanol free makes the vtech pop off harder??

 
Rep Power: 188

Yes but what sensor does it look at to do this, just knock?

I'm sure advanced cars that take E85 has some sort of magic fuel sensor.

EDIT:Find pure gas in your area; http://pure-gas.org

 
Rep Power: 0

He said he was a tech, I figured that's what he meant. But I didn't want to sound like "no, that's not what he was talking about" - meaning he was looking for ethanol free gas instead of HP - and instead be understood to be saying "no, you're wrong".

Yeah, I knew but a few people didn't and couldn't be convinced otherwise. Or maybe they were just immature and thought it was funny. "haha, he said retard"

 
Rep Power: 0

E85 burns like regular gasoline, it just has a different octane rating. An E85 vehicle adjusts for the octane rating like any other car when you're burning E85 (or any other percentage mixture).

 
Rep Power: 518

It's not magic.
It's UFO technology.


I will use your own words here:
E85 burns much colder and slower than gasoline.


You are confusing octane with air/fuel ratio.

Stoich for E85 is around 9.76:1, while normal gasoline is 14.7:1 (the commonly accepted value).
Octane has no bearing on this equation at all.
Max power enrichment ratios for E85 can be about 6.975:1, while gasoline is around 11:1 or 12:1.
It takes more E85 fuel to get the same amount of work as gasoline in the flex fuel cars, mainly because the engine has to be designed to run on gasoline.
An engine that is designed to run on strictly Alcohol (or E85) can have a much higher compression ratio to take advantage of the higher octane in the Alcohol.
Use of gasoline limits the compression ratio that can be used.

HTH

 
Rep Power: 0

I misunderstood what I read then. When I read into E85 references to octane constantly arose - but they were tuning for HP and running strictly E85, not retrofitting for flexfuel capability. The same conversation about E85 repeatedly stated that you could run E85 in a regular gas burning (non flexfuel) auto. This would be where I got my basis for E85 burning like, or at least similarly to, normal gas. I'm guessing the O2 sensor comes more into play for a flexfuel car's computer determining what's in it's tank then?

 
Rep Power: 518

Yes you can, and it will run.
It won't run great. It will be far too lean. Hard to start when it is cold out too, on some.

A carb would have to be rejetted for much more fuel, and timing needs to be advanced quite a ways too. Non-feedback EFI would be very similar.

A (feedback) fuel injected car will attempt to richen the fuel mixture to keep the O2 happy until it hits about +20% enrichment (can vary among manufacturers), then turns the CEL on because it is beyond the design parameters.
The injection system on a regular engine bases its calculations on a preprogrammed (fuel and timing) "map". The O2 and Knock sensors can only modify that "map" by so much. Then it is off the scale and the lights come on.

A flex fuel car has more "map" range available (fuel and ignition) designed to cover engine needs depending on various amounts of Ethanol in the fuel, from 0% to 85%.

They haven't made a variable compression ratio engine for production AFAIK. So more efficient use of the Ethanol is somewhat limited.



Fuel composition sensors are used on most FF systems. There are probably other ways of doing it, but that is the most common that I am aware of right now.


HTH

 
Rep Power: 0

Thanks!