Is 10w30 ok to use in our motors?
02-22-2006
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Originally Posted by jamie_civic
ya man forsure, only shop i go to is for tuning....
but i gotta tell you, monday mornings i love the modified cars on tow that idiots tried to work on themselves.
but ya if you know whats going on, you should do it yourself.
but i gotta tell you, monday mornings i love the modified cars on tow that idiots tried to work on themselves.
but ya if you know whats going on, you should do it yourself.
02-23-2006
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Originally Posted by DDragon7
The W does stand for Winter, I actually was bored and looked it up on google.
by the way im not saying your wrong, just saying internet facts cannot be trusted.
02-23-2006
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Rep Power: 253 I know it could be wrong but if almost every site that talks about oil say that it stands for winter or for cold temperatures and didnt even see one that says anything about weight, the majority is right.
03-02-2006
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Originally Posted by Axxe
You're kidding, right? Please tell me that this is a joke.
The only reason honda specs 5W20 is because it's energy conserving. Burns less gas. Try running 20W50 and you'll see what I mean.
The only reason honda specs 5W20 is because it's energy conserving. Burns less gas. Try running 20W50 and you'll see what I mean.
)then you follow it up with, oh yes, another miseducated statement. 20w50 should NEVER be used in the civic. i hope you like replacing your oil pump prematurely and starving your engine of proper lubrication.
Originally Posted by gmcuajo
The manufacturer don't spec 5W20 just for energy conserving. They spec that because the engine was engineered for that.
The viscosity of the oil affects its flow capacity. If an engine was made to use 5W20 is because the clearances and sizes of the parts are for that oil grade. Also be careful using oil treatments and additives.
The manufacturer specs 5W20 but you can use 5W30 if you drive in hot weather. Is all in the owner's manual. The older hondas uses 10W30.
Run 20W50 and your engine will not have enough oil between bearings, cylinder wall and piston, etc. Doing that, is like adding you are adding grease instead of oil.
The viscosity of the oil affects its flow capacity. If an engine was made to use 5W20 is because the clearances and sizes of the parts are for that oil grade. Also be careful using oil treatments and additives.
The manufacturer specs 5W20 but you can use 5W30 if you drive in hot weather. Is all in the owner's manual. The older hondas uses 10W30.
Run 20W50 and your engine will not have enough oil between bearings, cylinder wall and piston, etc. Doing that, is like adding you are adding grease instead of oil.
Originally Posted by Axxe
That's exactly why it's more fuel efficient. Thinner oil takes less force to pump, which takes less force from the oil pump, which takes less energy from the crank, which burns less gas. Not only that, the cranks meets less resistance from the oil in the pan.
I just said 20W50 as an example of the extreme opposite. Do not run this oil in your D17.
The only reason honda specs 5W20 is because it's energy conserving. Burns less gas. Try running 20W50 and you'll see what I mean.
Last edited by S2000man01; 03-02-2006 at 02:12 PM.
03-02-2006
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Originally Posted by jamie_civic
haha W does NOT stand for winter, thats what mechanics tell customers to shut them up (im a mechanic)....10w30 is perfectly fine...personaly i would use 5w30 but theres no worrys....winter time is 5w30, summer time is 5w50.
Originally Posted by Axxe
W does not mean winter. It means weight. Try to show me proof otherwise.
Originally Posted by gmcuajo
Yes, its weight. A multiweight oil.
Originally Posted by streetglower
Lets see who else on here is about to get a lesson in automotive. And NO, W does not stand for Weight, it stands for winter. Any ASE master certified Tech will tell you this, any Engineer will tell you this. Here are some statements to let you know
"5W-30 or 10W-30 is better in colder climes. By the way, the 'W' does not stand for 'weight', as many erroneously assume. In fact, the 'W' that is in the S.A.E. designation for an oils viscosity stands for 'winter', indicating that the oil will flow at its rated viscosity in 'winter driving conditions', as defined by the S.A.E."
And a statement directly from the Society of automotive engineers
SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) Viscosity Grade
Viscosity is a measure of an oil's thickness, or resistance to flow. Lower numbers indicate thinner oil and higher numbers indicate thicker oil. There are two types of motor oils, single grade and multi-grade. Multigrade oil such as a 10W-30, are designed to have the viscosity of an SAE 10W oil at cold temperatures combined with the viscosity of an SAE 30 oil at engine operating temperatures. The "W" or "Winter" designation indicates that the oil meets viscosity requirements for low temperatures (below 30° F). this is from cheverons website http://www.chevron.com/products/prod...motoroils.shtm
Need I keep going. For all of you who say W stands for weight is wrong.
Exactly you are a mechanic, not a technician. And even then, any decent "mechanic" will know the W stands for winter. And any decent mechanic would NOT recommend 5W-50 for any car in the summer unless otherwise specified by the manufacture.
No wonder people complain about the auto industry these days. too many people out there who say they are "techs or mechanics" telling customers the wrong ****.
"5W-30 or 10W-30 is better in colder climes. By the way, the 'W' does not stand for 'weight', as many erroneously assume. In fact, the 'W' that is in the S.A.E. designation for an oils viscosity stands for 'winter', indicating that the oil will flow at its rated viscosity in 'winter driving conditions', as defined by the S.A.E."
And a statement directly from the Society of automotive engineers
SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) Viscosity Grade
Viscosity is a measure of an oil's thickness, or resistance to flow. Lower numbers indicate thinner oil and higher numbers indicate thicker oil. There are two types of motor oils, single grade and multi-grade. Multigrade oil such as a 10W-30, are designed to have the viscosity of an SAE 10W oil at cold temperatures combined with the viscosity of an SAE 30 oil at engine operating temperatures. The "W" or "Winter" designation indicates that the oil meets viscosity requirements for low temperatures (below 30° F). this is from cheverons website http://www.chevron.com/products/prod...motoroils.shtm
Need I keep going. For all of you who say W stands for weight is wrong.
Exactly you are a mechanic, not a technician. And even then, any decent "mechanic" will know the W stands for winter. And any decent mechanic would NOT recommend 5W-50 for any car in the summer unless otherwise specified by the manufacture.
No wonder people complain about the auto industry these days. too many people out there who say they are "techs or mechanics" telling customers the wrong ****.
03-02-2006
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Originally Posted by jamie_civic
well the engine has 23000 km's.......i change quite often not just because i decide to change it but recently because of my turbo install iv been taking off the oil pan and whatnot.....my tuner (who happens to do all the race cars that compete around here) recomended i use 15w50 mobile 1 synthetic but 5w50 seems a little safer.
anyways on the topic of what the "W" stands for im in the process of finding out, seeing as we have seen some proof it means winter im gonna ask the top mechanics around here....my teachers in school told me it did not mean winter, but people like to hear that, makes them feel better inside...
so ill let you guys know soon...and if im in fact wrong and it does mean winter, i will tell the truth, just means my teachers were wrong.
anyways on the topic of what the "W" stands for im in the process of finding out, seeing as we have seen some proof it means winter im gonna ask the top mechanics around here....my teachers in school told me it did not mean winter, but people like to hear that, makes them feel better inside...
so ill let you guys know soon...and if im in fact wrong and it does mean winter, i will tell the truth, just means my teachers were wrong.
Originally Posted by jamie_civic
fine just let me find it in an acctual SAE book...and believe me when people are asking you every 2 seconds "is that winter oil???, i need winter oil or my cars going to blow up...make sure its made for winter"
you tell them the W stands for winter, doesnt matter if thats true or not.
you tell them the W stands for winter, doesnt matter if thats true or not.
Originally Posted by jamie_civic
ya i was that stuff on the internet too. but if you want a great example of how shitty internet facts are. goto www.howstuffworks.com
by the way im not saying your wrong, just saying internet facts cannot be trusted.
by the way im not saying your wrong, just saying internet facts cannot be trusted.
you got owned. deal with it.
03-02-2006
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Rep Power: 375 http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#Oil%20Viscosity
"The first number is the viscosity when the oil is cold. This is followed by the letter W (which stands for winter, not weight), which is followed by the number that indicates the viscosity when the oil is at operating temperature. "
http://www.chevron.com/products/PROD...neoilspecs.htm
this is from chevron. oh but yeah i guess they'd "lie" on the internet too.
"The fact that this classification has two parts; the 15W and the 40 indicates that the oil is a multigrade. The first number with the suffix 'W' indicates the oil's performance at low temperature. In fact the 'W' stands for winter."
"The first number is the viscosity when the oil is cold. This is followed by the letter W (which stands for winter, not weight), which is followed by the number that indicates the viscosity when the oil is at operating temperature. "
http://www.chevron.com/products/PROD...neoilspecs.htm
this is from chevron. oh but yeah i guess they'd "lie" on the internet too.
"The fact that this classification has two parts; the 15W and the 40 indicates that the oil is a multigrade. The first number with the suffix 'W' indicates the oil's performance at low temperature. In fact the 'W' stands for winter."
03-14-2006
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Originally Posted by streetglower
yes the W stands for winter. the first number specifires the viscocity at cold temps, the seconds number at high temps.
W MEANS WEIGHT
NO MATTER THE OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE. THE ENGINE TEMPERATURE IS ALWAYS THE SAME, AROUND 170-200 DEGREES, THE OIL IN THE ENGINE IS AT THE ENGINE TEMPERATURE NOT AT THE OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE
IF YOU ARE THINKING ON THE OIL FOR WINTER (cold temp) LOOK THE "20" OR "30", THIS NUMBER IS RELATIVE (or more important) TO THE OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE
first read the owner's manual, then discuss about mechanics, technicians, engineers...
if you are a technician the first thing you must learn is to read the manuals (owner's manuals, service manuals, etc.), you aren't the engine's manufacturer follow instructions is always the safest way
on winter or new engine use 5W20, on summer use 5W30, or use one of those all the time, it doesn't matter
no the W isn't for winter. W its for weight, multiweight oil
the oil manufacturer "never" (or not often) develop an oil for winter or summer, they use the scientific method (or whaterver its name) when they develop an oil in a laboratory. In that method you should not use seasons, you should use parameters that you could measure such as temperature, weight, mass, etc. And the SAE doesn't measure the specs of the oil based on the season of the year the oil should be used.
Your manufacturer doesn't matter if you drive the vehicle on winter or cold weather they do the same vehicle for all weather, no matter where you are the engine is made to reach its operating temperature (the same on any weather) that's why they have the thermostat...
The manufacturer (engine and ECU) can't control the temperature of the engine in a cold start. In a cold start the oil will be heavier, and it could be heavier enough such it can't flow through the engine, or delay some time. The clearances on newer engine are even less than in older engines. That delay time could result in a damage or premature wear of the engine components. To avoid that, and thanks of technology, the multiweight oil lets the oil be thin when cold such when the engine starts the oil pump can pickup the oil easier and faster to deliver it to the engine components. When the engine reachs its oparating temp. (very fast on late vehicles) the weight, or viscosity, of the oil is the same on every weather.
So start the engine and let it reachs its operating temperature or drive slow until it reach that temp. (take just some feets driving, not miles) Important in cold weather.
no matter what weather you are you should always use a multiweight oil because the "single grade" oil doesn't meet the needs and specification of the engine
If you have any concern, I am studiying both, mechanical engineering and automotive technology
Last edited by gmcuajo; 03-14-2006 at 11:23 PM.
03-15-2006
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Let me check.... yup. Nobody cares what the dam "w" stands for, so let it die already. If you are studying to be an auto engineer, you certainly should know that the engine is NOT at 170-200 degrees. That is the temperature of the water or coolant right? Well any engineer should know that in order to transfer heat from the engine to the coolant, there has to be a heat gradient right? I mean that is simple basic energy transport, very basic concepts for an engineer. You should know even better than me that there are HUGE gradients in the engine, the combustion chamber is between 700-1000C for instance, it's not like the entire engine is one temperature, the engine it's self is cooled as you move further away from the combustion chamber.
The maual says nothing of how the engine was engineered, but yes one should read the manuals, those are written for a good purpose.
Tis true, if you run in hotter weather, you may want to think about a thinner oil. For instance if I lived in sya Vegas, I would probably use 5w30 all year, or at least during the summer.
Agian, nobody cares, let it die.
I don't even understand the first sentence here. I think you are tring to say the manufactures don't take in to consideration the seasons, which is not entirely true, why would they test their oil in all types of climates? Certianly some oils are better suited for certian climates and engines, but this is discussed in the owners manual, and you can actually understand it.
Agian, after I read that about 5 times I get your point, and yes I kind of agree.
I didn't know that putting a single weight in the engine was being debated here? But yeah, that is true.
The internal parts of the engine are at operating temps in a matter of seconds. The only reason to drive slow is to allow the oil to warm up.
Again, didn't know we where debating this..... Anybody not use multi weight oil?
This worries me the most. You spent a lot of time on this, and if you are a dual major engineer, you shouldn't have this much time this time of the year, is your school ABET accredited? Additionally, you have very poor communication skills, which are important for being able to explain your ideas; maybe English is not your first language, so I'll let that slide. But you made some serious flaws in your statements, like the operating temperature of the engine is at 170-200 degrees, and this makes me believe, either you are not an engineer at all, or you are just a freshman or sophomore engineer still grasping the very basics. If you have any concerns, I've got a Masters in Chemical and Bimolecular Engineering and am currently working on my PhD, so I know a little about engineering too.
Originally Posted by gmcuajo
EVERYBODY PLEASE READ THIS POST, AND DON'T TRY TO PROOF THE OTHER BECAUSE YOU CAN'T
W MEANS WEIGHT
NO MATTER THE OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE. THE ENGINE TEMPERATURE IS ALWAYS THE SAME, AROUND 170-200 DEGREES, THE OIL IN THE ENGINE IS AT THE ENGINE TEMPERATURE NOT AT THE OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE
IF YOU ARE THINKING ON THE OIL FOR WINTER (cold temp) LOOK THE "20" OR "30", THIS NUMBER IS RELATIVE (or more important) TO THE OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE
W MEANS WEIGHT
NO MATTER THE OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE. THE ENGINE TEMPERATURE IS ALWAYS THE SAME, AROUND 170-200 DEGREES, THE OIL IN THE ENGINE IS AT THE ENGINE TEMPERATURE NOT AT THE OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE
IF YOU ARE THINKING ON THE OIL FOR WINTER (cold temp) LOOK THE "20" OR "30", THIS NUMBER IS RELATIVE (or more important) TO THE OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE
Originally Posted by gmcuajo
first read the owner's manual, then discuss about mechanics, technicians, engineers...
if you are a technician the first thing you must learn is to read the manuals (owner's manuals, service manuals, etc.), you aren't the engine's manufacturer follow instructions is always the safest way
if you are a technician the first thing you must learn is to read the manuals (owner's manuals, service manuals, etc.), you aren't the engine's manufacturer follow instructions is always the safest way
Originally Posted by gmcuajo
on winter or new engine use 5W20, on summer use 5W30, or use one of those all the time, it doesn't matter
Originally Posted by gmcuajo
no the W isn't for winter. W its for weight, multiweight oil
Originally Posted by gmcuajo
the oil manufacturer "never" (or not often) develop an oil for winter or summer, they use the scientific method (or whaterver its name) when they develop an oil in a laboratory. In that method you should not use seasons, you should use parameters that you could measure such as temperature, weight, mass, etc. And the SAE doesn't measure the specs of the oil based on the season of the year the oil should be used.
Originally Posted by gmcuajo
Your manufacturer doesn't matter if you drive the vehicle on winter or cold weather they do the same vehicle for all weather, no matter where you are the engine is made to reach its operating temperature (the same on any weather) that's why they have the thermostat...
Originally Posted by gmcuajo
The manufacturer (engine and ECU) can't control the temperature of the engine in a cold start. In a cold start the oil will be heavier, and it could be heavier enough such it can't flow through the engine, or delay some time. The clearances on newer engine are even less than in older engines. That delay time could result in a damage or premature wear of the engine components. To avoid that, and thanks of technology, the multiweight oil lets the oil be thin when cold such when the engine starts the oil pump can pickup the oil easier and faster to deliver it to the engine components. When the engine reachs its oparating temp. (very fast on late vehicles) the weight, or viscosity, of the oil is the same on every weather.
Originally Posted by gmcuajo
So start the engine and let it reachs its operating temperature or drive slow until it reach that temp. (take just some feets driving, not miles) Important in cold weather.
Originally Posted by gmcuajo
no matter what weather you are you should always use a multiweight oil because the "single grade" oil doesn't meet the needs and specification of the engine
Originally Posted by gmcuajo
If you have any concern, I am studiying both, mechanical engineering and automotive technology
This worries me the most. You spent a lot of time on this, and if you are a dual major engineer, you shouldn't have this much time this time of the year, is your school ABET accredited? Additionally, you have very poor communication skills, which are important for being able to explain your ideas; maybe English is not your first language, so I'll let that slide. But you made some serious flaws in your statements, like the operating temperature of the engine is at 170-200 degrees, and this makes me believe, either you are not an engineer at all, or you are just a freshman or sophomore engineer still grasping the very basics. If you have any concerns, I've got a Masters in Chemical and Bimolecular Engineering and am currently working on my PhD, so I know a little about engineering too.
03-15-2006
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Originally Posted by gmcuajo
If you have any concern, I am studiying both, mechanical engineering and automotive technology
03-15-2006
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Originally Posted by gmcuajo
EVERYBODY PLEASE READ THIS POST, AND DON'T TRY TO PROOF THE OTHER BECAUSE YOU CAN'T
W MEANS WEIGHT
W MEANS WEIGHT
If you have any concern, I am studiying both, mechanical engineering and automotive technology
Go onto the bitog forums and tell them the W stands for weight and you know better because you're in schooling for engineering. You'll get laughed off the forums.So let's recap. Hmm... FYI I asked our local s2ki tribologist if he EVER heard of using W for WEIGHT and he actually laughed and said "no, it means winter" So going back to your statement here:
NO MATTER THE OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE. THE ENGINE TEMPERATURE IS ALWAYS THE SAME, AROUND 170-200 DEGREES, THE OIL IN THE ENGINE IS AT THE ENGINE TEMPERATURE NOT AT THE OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE
Quit being a f*cking tool. Gee, who to trust. A wet behind the ears automotive technology student who apparently thinks that oil magically stays at operating temps when the car sits all night on a cold winter day, OR a 30 year tribologist, who's entire career has been nothing but engine oil and lubrication for the last 30 years.
Wow, that's a tough one.
Originally Posted by gmcuajo
IF YOU ARE THINKING ON THE OIL FOR WINTER (cold temp) LOOK THE "20" OR "30", THIS NUMBER IS RELATIVE (or more important) TO THE OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE
Last edited by S2000man01; 03-15-2006 at 11:36 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
03-15-2006
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Originally Posted by S2000man01
FYI I asked our local s2ki tribologist if he EVER heard of using W for WEIGHT and he actually laughed and said "no, it means winter" So going back to your statement here:
Originally Posted by S2000man01
Guess what cheech, your oil doesn't remain at running/operating temp when it's been sitting outside all night. Oh, but I guess your engineering education didn't get to that part yet, hey?
And... just a letter "W" cause all of that...
Originally Posted by S2000man01
Quit being a f*cking tool. Gee, who to trust. A wet behind the ears automotive technology student who apparently thinks that oil magically stays at operating temps when the car sits all night on a cold winter day, OR a 30 year tribologist, who's entire career has been nothing but engine oil and lubrication for the last 30 years.
What expect about someone that have 30 years (I think) testing oils and lubrication components and never see the use of "w" to identify the weight
ex. of it: the weight of a vehicle
w=850lb (pounds)
Originally Posted by Jrfish007
This worries me the most. You spent a lot of time on this, and if you are a dual major engineer, you shouldn't have this much time this time of the year, is your school ABET accredited? Additionally, you have very poor communication skills, which are important for being able to explain your ideas; maybe English is not your first language, so I'll let that slide. But you made some serious flaws in your statements, like the operating temperature of the engine is at 170-200 degrees, and this makes me believe, either you are not an engineer at all, or you are just a freshman or sophomore engineer still grasping the very basics. If you have any concerns, I've got a Masters in Chemical and Bimolecular Engineering and am currently working on my PhD, so I know a little about engineering too.
I wasn't referring the temp on the combustion chamber, at the combustion chamber shouldn't be oil...
in chemestry you use the "w" to identify (or as variable, I don't know if this is the term in english) the weight?
Originally Posted by S2000man01
wait what? you do realize that the FIRST number is the oil's COLD operating viscosity, right? though with as little as you seem to know, it wouldn't shock me if you tried to argue otherwise.
Originally Posted by S2000man01
wait what? you do realize that the FIRST number is the oil's COLD operating viscosity, right? though with as little as you seem to know, it wouldn't shock me if you tried to argue otherwise.
Last edited by gmcuajo; 03-15-2006 at 03:45 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
03-15-2006
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Yes,
"In 2002, ABET Re-accredited the following Bachelor of Science programs:
Civil Engineering
Industrial Engineering
Electrical Engineering
Mechanical Engineering"
Originally Posted by Jrfish007
is your school ABET accredited?
"In 2002, ABET Re-accredited the following Bachelor of Science programs:
Civil Engineering
Industrial Engineering
Electrical Engineering
Mechanical Engineering"
Last edited by gmcuajo; 03-15-2006 at 03:47 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
03-15-2006
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Originally Posted by gmcuajo
when you use a letter to identify the weight in any manner, is common identify it with a "w"...
I never said the oil remains at engine's operatings temperature, I said when the engine reaches it's oparating temperature...
i pointed out the fact that the reason the "w" stands for winter is because it will properly protect the engine when it is NOT at operating temperature in cold weather starts.
What expect about someone that have 30 years (I think) testing oils and lubrication components and never see the use of "w" to identify the weight
A tribologist is a CHEMICAL ENGINEER who SPECIALIZES in engine lubrication. you think in his 30 years of his job, not to mention his schooling, that he didn't know what "w" meant? hell, multiviscosity oils were f*cking invented during his time as a tribologist. so when they came out, do you think he just never bothered to find out what the "w" meant in engine oil? it's his f*cking job for crying out loud. Tell me you're not that ignorant. I'm amazed you can even try to argue. i'm not one for insults, but you are a clueless tool who has no f*cking clue what he's talking about.
ex. of it: the weight of a vehicle
w=850lb (pounds)
w=850lb (pounds)
w=tungsten
see how flawed your logic is? get a f*cking clue.
in chemestry you use the "w" to identify (or as variable, I don't know if this is the term in english) the weight?
Rather than let this stupidity snowball, and allow any further misinformation to attempt to spread, I think we're done here.
Sorry dude, but W stands for winter. You've got a lot to learn......
03-16-2006
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Originally Posted by gmcuajo
in chemestry you use the "w" to identify (or as variable, I don't know if this is the term in english) the weight?
nope... I have good friend that sets behind me all day that is from Columbia, which speaks spanish also. And he said just like in English they use either "wt" for weight or "m" for mass (which what almost every formula requires).
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