TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Wait, supermex's build? Hes an a1-head too, and boosted.

sql_civic

iTrader: (10)

Hi Triz

Seals

There's no trick to removing valve seals. Just grab them with a pair of pliers and pull em off. You will probably destroy them so make sure when you tap the news ones on you match up the intake seals on the intake side and exhaust on the exhaust side cause you don't want to hafta pull em off. When re-installing the seals just push them on evenly with your thumb and tap them into place by using a deep 10mm socket. Maybe use a little oil to make them slide right on.

Guides

My advice is to leave this to the pros. You need to change your guides if they're out of tolerance. This might be difficult for you to determine without precise measuring tools and experience. For example the valve stem to guide clearance for a D16 engine is:

Intake: 0.02- 0.05( 0.001- 0.002)
Exhaust: 0.05 - 0.08 (0.002 - 0.003)

So to check the clearance you need a dial gauge to measure the movement while extending the valve out 10mm. Do you think you can do this accurately? The machine shop I use has a set of stems all different sizes that they just insert into the guide to see if they fit. It's very simple and accurate.



Now guides are only a few bucks a piece so you might think, what the hell, I'll just replace them. This would involve heating up the head, rapidly cooling the guide, and banging them out. To re-install again you would heat up the head (in your oven), put the new guides in the freezer and put them in. When doing this you run the risk of warping the head from heating it up unevenly or having a seat fall out (cause they are pressed in as well). My machine shop doesn't heat up the head when replacing the guides, they use super cooled gas (freon maybe) to cool (and shrink) the guide and then they press them in or out.

Oversized valves

I wish I knew more about the tradeoffs on oversized valves. Obviously, it will flow more air into the CC and that may or may not be beneficial or detrimental. You can get the same effect by swapping a cam with longer duration and you can always swap the OEM cam back if it doesn't work out.

Stainless vs Coated

The thing that I think is most beneficial here is the weight of the valves. Are the stainless valves lighter? The benefit here is that they'll be less friction. But I read that you will mostly benefit at high rpms and you may also need to replace your springs so that the valves don't float. Otherwise, I guess stainless does what, resist corrosion? resist carbonization? Stock valves are very good.

Valve seat cutting/angling

A stock Honda head comes with a 3 angle cut 30/45/90. A 5 angle cut would be an enhancement that is intended to improve the tulip shaped air flow around the valve head. By reducing the amount of cornering the air molecules have to do, the more volume and velocity can be achieved. However, the trade-off is that the surface area where the valve contacts the seat is reduced, thus reducing the heat transfer from the valve to the head. This increases the chances for detonation and burnt valves from overheating. My advice for daily drivers is to go with the 3 angle cut. Machine shops use CNC machines that do this very accurately eliminating the need to lap them in afterwards during assembly.

So, what to do?

I would strip the head bare and take it (or even ship it) to a machine shop that has experience with Honda engines. Have them check the service limits of the guides and replace any that are out of spec. I was charged $14 for the guide alone. Have them cut your seats to the OEM 3-angle specs. Then have them flatten all mating surfaces (intake/exhaust manifolds and block). Don't mill to add compression unless that's what you want. Then have them hot tank it. All of the above cost me $210 with 1 guide replaced (I broke it trying to hammer it out). Then you do all the reassembly. This will give you the satifaction of doing as much of the rebuild work that is practical while ending up with high quality results.

Other stuff

Get ARP head studs. Most guys use them to prevent head lift in high boost applications. But the other thing is that they don't stretch like OEM head bolts and therefore they can be re-used. This can come in handy in case you need to remove the head again after you install.

Go with an OEM head gasket. I wouldn't use any kind of copper spray or special gasket sealer.

Good luck!
sql_civic

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

Good stuff Carl, always nice to a detailed how-to on something not everyone encounters every day.

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Alright sql_civic, thats worthy of my rep any day.

So basically a guide is ~15 bucks - same price as an aftermarket valve. Thoes will add up to 500 bucks alone, expensive. *sigh* I guess I will give my machine shop a call and see what its going to cost to get them to check it out. I'll also call honda and see what they charge to make sure they are in spec.

I think I'm good on the headstuds for now. They should be good for three head removeals. Just gotta wonder what the honda delership has done to it. Hmm..

I let my boss know I wasnt getting enough hours yesterday. Def time to get another job.

Need a new thread for the valve questions I guess. I got the stage 2 cam thats supporting this build- so that will come into play. Need some more well versed members who can speak from experience.

I think I'll skip the angle job unless someone comes through with a little more convincing story on why it'll be better for me to get it.

Anyways, you have my rep! We'll see what other questions come out of the build. Thanks.

Oh, how much head rebuilding experience do you have?

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

My friend is in the process of tearing apart his B18A1 block to clean it up and whatnot. He decided to do this since he pulled the engine anyways after his tranny blew up on him. Anyways, he couldn't find a valve spring compressor attachment that would work with the B18A1 and he wanted to replace the valve seals and our results: holy ****. lol.. we got them done, but our fingers hella hurt now.. lol.. and we went through a lot of zip ties to help get the keepers back on.

Anyways, what we did to get the seals off was going to sears and picking up one of these. sure, it gave us potential to eat up the head, and yes, it did mangle up the old seals, but it worked. Just using this to work at it from side to side to pull it up and finally using a set of pliers to get it the rest of the way. We started out at about 15 minutes a valve (which included removing the keepers, retainers, springs, valves, and seals, replacing the valve seal and putting it all back together), but then we finally cut our time down to about 2-5 minutes a valve.

But good write-up anyways triz

PitchBlack

nice, videos are sweet for DIY...I'd rep you but I'm red

sql_civic

iTrader: (10)

Well a guide in my neck of the woods it was ~$15 for a supposedly "better than OEM" guide according to my machine shop. Things in general are more pricey than the rest of the country. I wouldn't sweat it until you know if they're in spec or not. I seen heads with 90k miles on them still in spec.

Gee, I don't know about this. Honda head bolts were designed to stretch and I don't think they can stretch more than once. ARP studs are only around $100. Here's a worthwhile article.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2005/eb70536.htm

"Check bolt lengths. Make sure you have the correct length bolts for the application and for each hole location (some holes require longer or shorter bolts than others). Bolts should also be measured or compared to one another to check for stretch. Any bolt found to be stretched must be replaced because (1) it may be dangerously weak; (2) it won't hold torque properly; and (3) it may bottom out when installed in a blind hole."

I'm not a pro. My father and Uncle were mechanics. I've done about 4 Honda heads in the last year or so. But my first was a 72 Vega (POS) back in the late 70's.

Thanks for the rep.

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

So I went to the machine shop. The guy told me no aftermarket company makes a valve guide worth a damn- stockers ftw.

He also looked at the head and said +1mm oversized valves would be too much, but +.5mm would fit and give me better flow.

So looking at this diagrams, looks like the valve guides are what number?

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

number 2 on the bottom left drawing

sql_civic

iTrader: (10)

Really?

What's wrong with Ferrea or Supertech Manganese-Bronze Valve Guides? They dissipate heat better and reduce friction. But alas, they wear faster.

Re: oversized valves - better flow is not always better.

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

^ at least for this engine its better on the exhaust side for sure.

I didnt come across thoes yet, I'm sure he has though- they've been working on / building honda engines for 30 years. link me.

sql_civic

iTrader: (10)

Well, TRIZ explain why you think that bigger exhaust valves are "better". There seems to be a general notion on forums like these that seem to promote the idea that improving air flow means increasing the size of all the air passageways. More air is more better cause it brings in more combustible oxygen. In other words more volume improve performance. But when it comes to engine performance efficiency and air flow there's a balance between volume and velocity. Think about this for a second. A given volume of air flowing through a straw must travel faster than through let's say a 1 inch tube. Velocity plays an important role in improving performance by evacuating combusted gas from the cylinder when both the intake and exhaust valves are opened at the same time (provided by cam overlap). Do you have any idea on what the net effect will be on your engine by having a "straw" on the intake and a "tube" on the exhaust.

Now on the exhaust side, restrictions in the flow (back pressure) actually help performance. Again, during overlap the back pressure keeps fresh feuled air from flowing in the intake and right out the exhaust. This balance has been engineered into your engine by Honda. So my point is that changing the exhaust valve opening may not have positive results.

Technical info on manganese-bronze guides
http://www.av-v.com/TechnicalInfo.htm

Tons more info:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

kevinking

Good Info.

DaRk_MauL

iTrader: (7)

Yep triz nice DIY. but like said before there are smaller and easier tools but
it works. but you forgot with spring valve goes where.

i got my second engines head off too.

7thgen.nick

iTrader: (1)

That actually depends on weder er not you were N/A or boosted...

if you were boosted, that would significantly improve your performance, as turbo applications do not like back pressure... hence why its best to upgrade to a 3" exhaust after going turbo, and most n/a exhausts are 2-2.5".

If you were to increase the size in exhaust and ARE boosted, id recomend also increasing intake side as well. Moving to a 3" intake piping, 74mm throttle body and better intake runners, matched up with a 3" exhaust will give you around 50-60hp gain on the d17a with on avg 8-12psi.

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Say what? What I did forget to mention in the video, because I didnt know, you want to keep track of which valve goes where. The best way to do this would be to write on the valves with chalk, or put the spring, retainers, and valve in a bag and label it, and do this for each valve. I messed up and am picking up new valves and valve guides because of it- stupid mistake. I suppose I dont HAVE to do this, but I'm spending the money to build, so I might as well spend a little more and build it right. I got the valve guides, just need to figure out what valves I want exactly.

Your head looks like an all to famil site. I feel like I've had my spare head torn apart for ages, when its only been about 2 months- I happen to run outta money. I got some more saved up, but def not enough to finish the whole project. If you need some help or further instructions, let me know. Also post up on your build- I wanna see your progress!!

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

hey triz, this vid was bad *** man

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Thanks, hope it helps ya guys out.

ryox82

iTrader: (4)

Thanks again for this DIY. I have my ex head stripped down to where you are in this vid and its sitting on my desk. I think I am going to just get a stage 2 cam, aem fic, valve/spring/retainers/guides, and do a pnp on the head. Not going to be in a hurry with it, got it for a good price and am just going to take my time.

Wolfgang5884

iTrader: (3)

bookmark added, great DIY

greeen01civic4d

iTrader: (7)

yep, good diy, exactly the correct procedure for valve removal, way to go Triz

DaRk_MauL

iTrader: (7)

hey triz.

I got the rocker arm assembly all cleaned up.I kinda no biggy just keep track on all
parts so they are back in the right place.





I resurfaced the exhaust side sinds it had all
these dimples.......but now its flat under .005





the head studs



Wen i looked at where the cam sits in the
head i saw these little surfaces like if they
where being touchedby the cam.It just if
its been polisched and feel real smoothe.
Did you sow something on your head like this ?????





peace

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Nice add on the pics for reference.

I hadnt seen thoes marks on my head. Oil gets dirty and crap gets in it, and the cam spins in the oil- thats probably how they happened. I doubt that its out of spec. I've seen engine builders put inserts into that type of area for the crank before, if it was bad im sure something could be adapted or machined to fit there.

khmer

great video, very informative.

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

Bumping to the top because I'll be swapping heads and valve train soon. Triz did you ever get your head rebuilt?

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Its still apart... I've been thinking about if I still want to go threw with it. Sucks tho, I'm still broke- finishing college... I have what I believe to be a wheel bearing issue now... *sigh* just getting frustrated with **** lately and haven't had time to focus on this. So no, I havent.

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

Well, like I said in another thread, if you need the rear wheel bearings, let me know because I've got my old ones that you can have for the price of shipping.

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Its coming from my front drivers side. Its a creeking.... I dont think its the CV joint, although it only happens when I'm turning at slow speeds, and just starting to engage the clutch. I have pics loaded if you want to try and tell me what u think it is.

greeen01civic4d

iTrader: (7)

bump for damian

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

LOL. That's funny and shitty at the same time Adam.