Delbudge

Hey guys -

So here is my issue: Just had the head and head gasket replaced in my 2004 civic lx 150k miles a week ago. She's no longer over heating but now I am noticing coolant leaking from the driver side of the car. It really can't see where on earth it is coming from, but it's leaking onto the undercarriage about a foot from the radiator. (About a foot back from the front of the car and a foot from the driver side)

This car has been an absolutely money pit so far, but since I have dumped so much into it I refuse to let her go. Within the last year I've installed a new starter, water pump, timing belt, head + hc, tranny job, struts... the list goes on. Where on earth do you think this leak is coming from? I haven't replaced the thermostat, the hoses look to be in good enough condition, it's not leaking near the radiator. The new head was machined. I'm frustrated and have no idea what direction to go. Mechanic said maybe a rad cap, but again it's no where near that area. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

ezone

water pump would drip at about the LF tire area or just ahead of the tire.

Delbudge

Yeah I checked the pump, it's brand new and doesn't appear to be oozing out of these. I really only notice it when the car is off. When it's on I don't see any leak but once I drive it about 20 minutes and park it, it's like steady drips coming from that side of the engine. I'm not having over heating issues at all as the HG and new head were just installed. Not quite sure but looks like I may have to bring it in again /sigh

ezone

Sounds like it's time to slide under to see where the drips come from.

Delbudge

It really looks like its coming from the oil pan gasket. Any ideas? It's really pouring out

ezone

The oil pan cannot leak antifreeze.


The water pump is directly above that mess.
Looks like the mess probably starts at the pump weep hole (red arrows) there looks to be a trail of evidence that begins at that hole.
Aftermarket pump is bad? Bad gasket?
Time for teardown?




Factory pump that doesn't like green coolant? IDK.


You might pull the air breather off of the throttle body and make sure nothing up there is leaking antifreeze (IAC valve hoses?), but from the pic I'd bet on the water pump.

Delbudge

I appreciate you getting back to me. I contacted the guy who did the gasket and he is "100% sure it's not that". But who knows. Water pump has about 2000 miles on it but it's aftermarket so you might be right. I'll get some more info and post. Thanks again

Wankenstein

Bring the car back to him and have him pinpoint the leak. If need be ask him to remove the lower timing belt cover and run the engine while you watch too so you can be 100% assured it's not the water-pump.

Delbudge

Okay took it back to him. He pressure tested it and says it appears to be the water pump. Which is strange because it was just replaced. According to him he says when you blow a head gasket and your car over heats it can do a number on the water pump. I don't know how accurate that is, but at least he is doing the labor for free and just charging me for the pump. I'll update again once I get her back.

Wankenstein

Make sure you either get an OEM water-pump or at least a quality brand named Japanese manufactured one such as Aisin brand (might be OEM). If the prior one that failed is a Duralast or other basic brand than that's propbably the issue moreso than overheating effecting the waterpump. A well made waterpump should defintitely not fail within a year and OEM's generally make it to the first TB change (75k-100k miles). It's possible overheating may have dried out the WP's rubber gasket. Also, you can't rule out that the mechanic didn't install it correctly.The waterpump mounting bolts should be torqued to 9 ft. pounds in a crossing patterns (equalize tension). Watch the vid below from the 6:30 time mark:

ezone

Huh?

How long ago was this water pump replaced? What was the warranty on that work?
Is it one of those lifetime warranty parts?


I'd put a Honda pump in.
Flush out all the green antifreeze while the pump is out.
Refill with Hondas Type 2 coolant.

Wankenstein

I put green coolant in mine 9 months ago..should I replace it? I read a bunch of threads beforehand and many said that green was fine as long as it states "Safe for Honda's" on it. Also read that color is just a dye and the most important requirement is the coolant must be up to manufacturer's specs.

I'll change it out if it's best though. Here's a read concerning antifreeze for Asian vehicles ..reply 12 is very descriptive:
http://mechanics.stackexchange.com/q...ith-all-models

ezone

Color is dye, but color alone means very little and indicates nothing about composition.

Are you familiar with Hondas coolant specs? (non-silicate, non-borate)
Did your coolant agree with those?


I'm a fan of factory recommended fluids, not without reason.

Wankenstein

Thanks Ezone: I haven't had any issues so far, but I'll spend the extra $25 and replace it with Honda OEM type 2.

Out of curiosity do you know if Pentosin (Pentofrost A3 blue) is the manufacturer of Honda OEM type 2? Link: http://www.pentosin.net/specsheets/P...st_spec_A3.pdf

Stock 99

If your car was made before 2000 they says you don't need to use the Honda coolant.... the head tech at my local Honda dealer mentioned that to me while I was buying Honda coolant last time. I do personally but that's the word on the street.

ezone

Meh. It's up to you. If green has been ok for you, may as well run it for a couple years?

One thing I have noticed since Honda switched to type 2 is greatly improved water pump life. Like the only pumps my store keeps in stock now are the ones that can get replaced with a timing belt job.


No clue, and I associate that brand with Euro cars.
Looks similar in the data sheet but I don't see any such for Hondas product. Do you think their name or logo would be on the bottle?

Wankenstein

Honda All Season Coolant/Antifreeze Type 2 MSDS: http://www.worldpac.com/tagged/Coolant_-_Honda.pdf

Pentofrost A3 (blue) MSDS: http://www.worldpac.com/tagged/PENTOFROST_A3.pdf

Here is Prestone's MSDS: https://gammasales.com/itemFiles/970...DS%20Sheet.pdf

These three products have at least three exact chemicals in varying amounts:
1) Ethylene Glycol 107-21-1
2) Water 7732-18-5
3) Diethylene Glycol 111-46-6

Honda and Pentofrost have an ingredient that Prestone does not:
Potassium Hydroxide 1310-58-3

Honda and Prestone share (possibly/questionable) similar ingredients that Pentofrost does not:
Prestone: 2-Ethyl Hexanoic Acid, Sodium Salt 19766-89-3
Honda (proprietary): Hydrated inorganic acid, organic acid salts. Cas# Proprietary

Related: http://www.odyclub.com/forums/14-per...i-coolant.html

Good read on Coolant types: http://www.aa1car.com/library/2004/us120426.htm
(copied and pasted) "But Honda has an extended-life OAT coolant that is dyed dark green and does not contain 2-EHA."

Several post concerning Prestone's 2-Ethyl Hexanoic Acid, Sodium Salt 19766-89-3 are claiming it possibly causes head gasket issues: https://www.google.com/search?q=2-Et...+gasket+issues

I recently did a coolant flush and fill on my daughter's 2000 toyota Solara. I read through several post concerning which antifreeze/coolant to use and also posted the question on Toyota Nation. Unanimously, responders and post that I read said do not use super extended life (pink) coolant and to stick with either Pentofrost A1 Red (undiluted) or Toyota OEM 00272-1LLAC-01 Long Life Coolant. I went with the Pentofrost A1 since it was half the price of Toyota's OEM.

ezone

I think they were phasing that stuff out during the early 2000s.


Reading all that makes my head swim....it's hard enough to just fix the dang cars LOL. It's easy to get the correct product at the dealer here.

I understand Toyotas started losing water pumps to premature failure when they switched to the pink coolant as factory fill.

Wankenstein

I know. I'm so worn out from researching, reading and posting all that, now I am too tired and unmotivated to do the coolant change work. Most likely, the majority of issues are caused by using hard tap water mixed with coolant rather than the type coolant used. I will say of the three I am leaning towards the Pentofrost because it doesn't contain acids or salts like the other two. Also, I doubt for my car's time (6th gen '96-2000), when purchased new, that either of these brand's mixtures would have been spec.

Delbudge

So looks like it was the water pump after all. Not sure if it was tied to the coolant, or the over heat from the HG, but swapped in a new one and nothing is dripping anymore. Also replaced the rad cap. Mechanic just charged us 45 for the new pump and all is good. Thanks for all your help fellas.

Wankenstein

May not be OEM at that price. Please tell us it's not a Duralast or other chain auto part's store part.

RIPSAW

Come on..that is lifetime and they give you 2 at a time..just put the extra in the boot for next month...They do make out on the $44 gasket I guess.

Wankenstein

Duralast: a combination from the words Durable and Lasting.
Should be named Surashaft: a combination from the words (in sentence form) You sure are getting the shaft when you buy this.+ =

Wankenstein

OP...we'll wait for your reply in a few months when that duracrap WP fails again...lol