4jacks

iTrader: (3)

Hey Everyone

2002 Honda Civic HX
Just Broke 200k miles on the Car.
Swapped the engine to a JDM D17A about 20k miles ago:
Link Here

It's Emissions Time in Maryland! yay

That means I have to fix my car. Currently have three Check Engine Light Codes (CEL) on: P0147, P1420, and P1130

P0146 O2 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 1 Sensor 3)

P1130 Demand for Changing Both Secondary Heated Oxygen Sensor (Secondary HO2S) (Sensor 2) and Third Heated Oxygen Sensor (Third HO2S) (Sensor 3)

P1420 Nox Adsorptive Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold


I know they are all exhaust related, but I was hoping for some more specific advice before I take her to the Muffler Shop. I suspect I need a new O2 sensor. However, I replaced one in 2006 and it was a different code (P1166)

Any advice is appreciated, Thanks for Reading

4jacks

iTrader: (3)

Bump

Requesting more Generic Device, if no one has any Specific Advice:
Do you recommend I head out to my reputable Mechanic for diagnostic? (he doesn't bend exhaust pipe, Might weld the crack headers, but doesn't stock new ones)
Or do you recommend I head out to my reputable Exhaust Shop? (Probably won't diagnose the CEL and will just tell me I need a new exhaust from the headers back, if that doesn't fix the CEL, send me off to the Mechanic Anyway)

Thanks

ezone

You have an HX with the wrong engine. Should have D17A6.

Won't that alone make it a fail, can't pass the first inspection?


P0147, sensor #3, O2 heater circuit malfunction. Probably a bad sensor but that's only a guess.
P1130, yes the mfr strongly recommends replacing the pair of sensors due to calibration.
P1420, there's info about a software update for the code, see your Honda dealer. But don't hold your breath, it might really be bad. And it may not like the incorrect engine at all, it could have ruined the NOX CAT earlier than usual.

4jacks

iTrader: (3)

That is correct. I switched from a D17A6 Engine (HX model USA) to the D17A Engine (EX Model JDM)

The reason of course was economics, not performance. JDM motors are cheap and available. Finding a rebuilt or low mileage D17A6 Engine was much more costly and harder to find.

The why I looked at it is: How many parts of the HX do I have to replace with JDM or USA EX parts in order for the car to function properly and not have any CEL's. At the time, talking to my mechanic who performed the swap, it was decided that the ECU from the HX was okay to keep. More details are posted in the thread. But the end result was a clean swap with no CEL on. It has now been 1 year and 17,000 miles, with all these CEL's being exhaust related I'm hoping I can make simple repairs and get it back to running proper.

Replacing both O2 Sensors? They are fairly expensive on the HX model.

The Cat is 13 years old, so I don't really have a problem replacing it, if it's needed.

Maryland has a $450 limit on repairs in order to pass the emissions test (which come up every two years)

ezone

Get the OEM parts through the manufacturer or other parts supply channels instead of Honda?
Look on your sensors, they were made by either DENSO or NTK, go to their website and look up your car.

Had to use a wire wheel to read the name on this one:





I have pics from one of these cars that use the dual rear sensors (but I believe these were for a hybrid) including the note that was in the package:



I'd get the updated software installed first (Or at least have the dealer check if it is available for your car--which means plugging in "the box" to check for updated software), because if that solves the cat code for right now that would save a ton of coin.

Edit:
ALSO, the cat code COULD have been related to some fault with the dual rear sensors, because the computer uses these sensors to judge the rear (NOX) cat. So I'd probably go with sensors first, then software, and cat replacement last if it still sets the code again.

4jacks

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the Great Post!


Last time I replaced the first 02 sensor, it was located right on the exhaust header, it was very easy to open the hood and just look down and there it was.

I used MajesticHonda. It was $220.

According to MajesticHonda, the 02 sensor on the exhuast pipe seems to come in a pair for $249.56.

I compared that to the EX model and the O2 sensor was $67.22, but I think that may have been only for one.

I don't know why, but the 02 sensors for the HX model are more expensive than the EX/DX/LX models.

I am not familiar with software updates. I absolutely loathe my local dealership and will only go back if I have to. Do they normally charge for this service? What service do I ask for?

If that is minimal cost, I will definitely have that done first, and then look into either replacing the sensors or taking the car to the exhaust shop.

Thanks again,

ezone

Your EX price was for a single sensor. The EX, LX and DX Civics use a total of two sensors each.
O2 sensors are generally less expensive than the A/F ratio sensors (also generally referred to as O2 sensors for simplicity). Depending on the model, year, emissions specs (LEV/ULEV/SULEV etc.), there can be different combinations and variations of sensors.


The HX (and some of Hondas hybrids) use multiple cats, the LX and EX use only one cat.
The computer uses the multiple O2 sensors to monitor the performance of the cats.
You are using the control unit that is for the HX engine, and it will always look for the 3 sensors and 2 cats in the configuration it was designed with.

The HX needed to have the extra cat because of its "lean burn" mode, this raises NOx emission levels, this is why the HX model needs the extra NOx adsorptive 3-way catalytic converter (to keep the EPA happy) in addition to the first cat. It's not an ordinary cat, and a typical aftermarket replacement probably won't keep the computer happy for very long.


Welcome to the wonderful world of modern cars..... You DO know it's all run by computer, right? Not just one, but several. New cars can use 10-40+ different computer modules and microprocessors.

A radio is no longer a radio anymore --- It's a computer that just happens to make some noise. Some even have a real hard drive inside.

Just like the monthly Microsoft updates for everyones' home and work computers (and phones!), automotive engineers figure out fixes for some issues by changing the operating software in the computer that runs that system.
Sometimes it's the only way to solve some problems.
You are free to visit others.

Maybe you could find some dedicated independent shop that has spent money to be well equipped and can really perform proper software updates to Hondas.

Did you seriously ask that???
Duh.


"*AHEM* Would you check this car for any possible software updates?"

Call around and ask.
I know on software updates and immobilizer key programming our shop charges quite a bit less than the 3 nearest dealers in my area.

Reread my opinions on this above.


I'd expect your local exhaust shop will slap on their "one size fits most" cat and think they did a great job.
You'd find out the truth pretty soon after that.
Average aftermarket cats don't keep the computer happy for long, and cheap is cheap for a reason.
I'm not even sure if California CARB Certified aftermarket type would be available in the correct NOx reduction cat unit for that car, it's such a limited low volume item.


YW. HTH