PaulDelos

Hey guys first post on the forum, and I'm wondering about an issue that my car has been going through.

The details needed before I go into detail:
Make and Model: Honda Civic 2006 EX Four-door Sedan
Mileage: 129,000
Battery: Tested good, corrosion cleaned off.

So here's the issue, there are times when my car doesn't start on the first try. Another attempt (no less than 4 seconds or so) and the car starts up immediately. The car chugs like it is attempting to start, but it doesn't. There is no clicking when the start fails.

The issue is made worse following a full tank of gas, as the last two times I've filled it up the car has done this issue and fails to start before a short break allows it to start.

The battery tested fine and I cleaned off the corrosion, so I'm wondering where I should start looking for repairs.

My friend, who works as a mechanic, hasn't been around when the car doesn't start, but he guesses that gas isn't getting into the engine.

Thanks ahead for the advice.

ezone

What code(s) does it have? P1456 or P1457?

PaulDelos

The check engine light doesn't come on for this issue, and I haven't seen a code, unless I'm not looking for it. I'll keep an eye on it to see if one comes up.

ezone

My first guess, based only on what I read above

See if the purge solenoid valve is stuck open.
I'd pinch the hose off and see if it starts better.
Blow through the hose to check the solenoid--if you can blow through it with the key off, it's stuck open and is bad.
If it is stuck open, you need to see if it may have had the charcoal canister come apart, the beads of charcoal could block the valve open.
Tap the solenoid on a white sheet of paper and see if anything comes out of it.

I'm thinking if it is stuck open, then it collecting fuel vapors in the intake when the engine is shut off (and when refueling)---effectively causing the engine to be flooded.

It's mounted on the throttle body, item #2 in this link:
http://estore.honda.com/honda/parts/...lx-5mt&b=E++01

PaulDelos

Thanks. I'll check it out here shortly.

I'd like to add that the starting struggles are not 100 percent of my starts. It's wildly inconsistent with times when my starts are without issue.

Is it possible that even with the potentially open valve would go without a hitch?

ezone

Wildly inconsistent.......would have a lot to do with temperatures and vapor pressure of the gasoline inside the gas tank.

You know how sometimes you can take the gas cap off and hear the HISSSSSSSS of the pressure in the tank? I'm thinking it won't do that now because all that pressure (and gas fumes) is now being vented into the intake manifold when the engine is shut off.

And it cold be an intermittent problem too. Sometimes the valve seals, sometimes not.

These are still just guesses.

PaulDelos

Come to think of it, I haven't heard that hiss I remove the gas cap. So we'll see how things go when I make a check it out.

Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it. If anything, it gets me one step closer to determining what exactly this issue is.

Matt_75

Could this problem apply to 7th gens as well? I have this same issue with it only being side stepped with letting the ignition be in the ON position for about 2 seconds or so and then it starts normal. If I just go to crank it right away it takes 7 to 10 cranks before it starts. I'm thinking if I let the fuel pump run it puts enough pressure in the system to mitigate the fuel vapor. Not sure, but any advice would be nice.

ezone

Sure. Test is the same. Blow through the purge valve. It should not be open when the key is off. It should not pass vacuum with a running engine until it is energized. Kinda doubt it is the same issue, at least they way I see it in my head so far.... Thinking is wrong here. The vapor I was talking about collects in the intake manifold, not the fuel rail.

Still having issues with the P1361 code? That might make it hard to start.

Are you still having issues with this site, as in not being able to post like a normal person? I sure am.

Matt_75

Yeah still having post issues. No P1361 since you saw that email. I decided to replace the cam sensor and valve cover gasket after that occurrence and it hasn't returned since the replacement and even before the replacement it never came back after I reset it which was about a week or so. Understood about the fuel rail and pressurizing. Not sure what to do at this point but it's pretty consistent when I don't put the key in the ON position. Maybe electrical issue somehow at this point since the cam sensor was replaced but now sure how.

ezone

Does if eventually fire off and run cleanly, or does it hit and struggle and fart around before running ok? Got a fuel pressure gauge? I might be checking residual pressure after shutoff (pressure drop with a hot engine allows fuel to boil in the rail---causes a sort of a vapor lock condition), and see how fast it builds pressure upon key-on and cranking.

Matt_75

Yes it fires off and runs clearly wheather it's 2 or 3 cranks in the ON position or trying to crank it right away with 7 to 10 cranks. No struggling of any sort what so ever. And it drives very normal after it fires off with no issues. What would residual pressure after shutoff indicate?

ezone

Now you're sounding like one of those that cranks longer with a low gas tank. Again with fuel pressure checks?

Matt_75

I think we should stop pursuing this problem at this point. I will get back to you with the fuel pressure reading. The problem occurs with a full fuel tank or an almost empty tank. I do not have a fuel pressure gauge for this issue at this point. I will get back to you with this problem when I can.

PaulDelos

Just a wonder more than anything as I will get this issue figured out sooner than later, but what could be the longterm effects of not fixing this issue?

Thanks again.

ezone

Hard start, rich running, rich code, EVAP code? Combine hard start with a weak battery and you might get stranded. Still only guesses though.