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Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? Hi all, I did the rear brake disc conversion. I used a marker to draw lines on each rotor, took the car for a drive, then checked to see if the lines were missing to make sure all callipers are still working. After testing, the driver side rotor was completely clean. The passenger front was about 95% clean. The rears were both about 60% clean. Is this normal? If not, is there a way I can increase the pressure to just the rears? |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? Did you bed in your rotor properly? You most likely have air bubbles in your rear lines. And getting a proportioning valve is not necessary. I have rear brakes and my rears bite very well. |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? If you really have the $$$ you can get a brake bias adjuster (wilwood makes em as well as many other companies) but you will be spending a good amount of money. But again it isn't necessary. Everyone who had rear disc conv doesn't seem to have this problem. So like I said, you just have a lot of bubbles in your rear lines. If you did a tear disc swap you should have flushed your entire brake system using at least 1 liter of brake fluid. |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? but even with rear disc setup, you are still getting the same low pressure as before right? |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? Yeah same low pressure as before. I did replace the brake fluid, I can't remember what brand I used though. But it wasn't the Honda brand, that's for sure. Just a generic brand from my local Canadian Tire. Maybe I should go flush it out again with some better brand name fluid. Do you think it could be the rubber lines? Would installing the metal lines help in pressure? Or is that just for brake feel? |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? I was also thinking, maybe it can be normal. The front driver side calliper is closest to the master cylinder right? Then the passenger, then obviously the rears being the farthest. If you guys wouldn't mind, could you try the marker test I did? I just took the car for a small spin around the block. I didn't drive fast at all, nor did I brake hard. I did a total of two stops. |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? i have drums so cant help you there, but it takes a very long time for the rears to wear. i once had rust on them when it rained and it took a good 15-20 brake applications from around 25-35mph to get the noises and grinding to go away. i think its normal since fronts do most of the work. unless you have a gt-r, the rears will not do much, disc or not. brake fluid generally will not do anything for this situation, and neither will stainless lines (other than a firmer pedal). |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? Cool, thanks for the feedback. So you had discs in the rear before? How come you put the drums back on? |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? no i never said i had discs lol. had drums since the car was new and am keeping them. i like having the rears last 100k+ miles and i use the ebrake all the time (only a few times and for a second or two at a time) when stopping to reduce wear on the fronts. i dont drive anything like the "average" person tho so my brakes tend to last much longer and work better. |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? just found this http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t...n/viewall.html Since we have discs at all four corners now, the master cylinder and proportioning valve will need to be replaced to match the new configuration. In a four-disc setup, a different amount of fluid needs to be pushed to the brakes, and a four-disc master has different valving to accomplish this. |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? another datapoint - if you have ABS, it will automaticallt adjust pressures - no need for proportioning valve. also, 2 stops are not nearly enough to bed pads. if you need to see some difference, do some braking in reverse. weight shifts to the direction you traveling when braking. I would recommend to re-bleed system first. check braking conditions - if pedal is not going down, most likely you not going to find air in the system anyway... driving at least for 50 miles before deciding that they do not stop. |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure?
Originally Posted by gearbox
(Post 4612158)
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Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? ^ See my first note again - it seems that you DO have ABS. |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? good info. did not know about abs auto adjusting. also yes, i just realized he installed new pads in the rear right? in which case it could take 500+miles for them to break in. maybe even longer. ive had my new brakes in for a year and still dont think the rears are broken in yet. even the fronts took quite a while before the rotor was smooth. so yeah if you have new pads for the rear conversion, keep driving the car for about a year and report back. i have a feeling you will be fine. |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? you DO know that cars with rear drums allocate more pressure to the rear than the same car that has rear disc brakes (factory). it requires a lot more pressure to make rear drums work than it does disc...so when you do rear disc, you are actually allocating more pressure rearward....than compared to lets say the same civic with rear disc (EP3...aka the SI hatchback) |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? here is a great explanation of brake and proportioning valves for our car from hondatech. Yes the proportioning valve distributes different pressures to the front and rear. How ever there is another factor, Honda brake systems have two criss-cross fluid systems distributed by two pistons in the master cylinder. So these are RR,LF and LR, RF. They did that as a failsafe so if one system fails the other will be available to carefully slow the car down. Yes the bias is front to rear but it achieves this through a dual sided valve cross pattern. Like Outsane said, just detailing the subject of putting an adjustable prop valve in the system to modulate front-rear bias becomes complicated needing two prop valves that you are going to have to match up perfectly or eliminating the criss-cross pattern entirely with one prop valve only recommended for track cars. Drum brakes need alot more volume of fluid to operate the pistons that actuate the rear shoes, that is why it is recommended that you replace proportioning valves when you do a rear disk swap so they won't lock the rears before the fronts (but you're obviously not having this problem rcelefano) when you change over to rear disks. Rear brakes only amount to approximately 30% of your braking power in our cars anyways due to weight transfer, and having a heavier front end than rear. If you lock the rears up first while threshold braking and they get light then the rear is going to get squirrely on you no matter if you are going in a straight line or in a curve. Cars are not evenly weighted from side to side. Try riding a motorcyle sometime and using the rear brake too hard, you lock it up in a straight line and the rear end wants to slide to one side. It wants to highside you off the bike so you are have to modulate the braking and ever so carefully let off some pressure as the rear wheel is sliding, let it off too soon and all at once and you are going to get pitched off if the rear end is far enough out of whack. If you want more rear brake I would adjsut it with a more aggressive rear pad, larger rotors(Fastbrakes) or an adjustable prop valve setup so you can modulate it. Here is another good read on proportioning valves. http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=530366 i am almost certain you have a lot of air bubbles in the rear. it took my nearly 2L of brake fluid between two weeks of letting the fluid settle in to finally flush out all the rear bubbles of the rear......yes... TWO liters of brake fluid i flushed through. remember, air bubbles are significantly compressible so that might be the reason why your rear brakes/calipers are not biting the rotor hard. |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? and yes i have rear disc brakes |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? read this if you dare to be educated about brake bias.... http://stoptech.com/technical-suppor...alance-matters |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure?
Originally Posted by gearbox
(Post 4612277)
good info. did not know about abs auto adjusting. also yes, i just realized he installed new pads in the rear right? in which case it could take 500+miles for them to break in. maybe even longer. ive had my new brakes in for a year and still dont think the rears are broken in yet. even the fronts took quite a while before the rotor was smooth. so yeah if you have new pads for the rear conversion, keep driving the car for about a year and report back. i have a feeling you will be fine. |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure?
Originally Posted by sl33pyriceboi
(Post 4612300)
you DO know that cars with rear drums allocate more pressure to the rear than the same car that has rear disc brakes (factory). it requires a lot more pressure to make rear drums work than it does disc...so when you do rear disc, you are actually allocating more pressure rearward....than compared to lets say the same civic with rear disc (EP3...aka the SI hatchback) |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure?
Originally Posted by sl33pyriceboi
(Post 4612301)
here is a great explanation of brake and proportioning valves for our car from hondatech. ^open/read that last link i am almost certain you have a lot of air bubbles in the rear. it took my nearly 2L of brake fluid between two weeks of letting the fluid settle in to finally flush out all the rear bubbles of the rear......yes... TWO liters of brake fluid i flushed through. remember, air bubbles are significantly compressible so that might be the reason why your rear brakes/calipers are not biting the rotor hard. |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? To make the job hassle free, I would recommend speed bleeder valves. All you do is crack them open slightly, and pump your brakes. No need for the traditional two man pumping and opening/closing of valve |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? I'm gonna have to agree with the need to bleed the rear brakes...Mine are swapped to discs and stainless steel lines and they have no problem biting down, however I have only been able to lock the fronts. When I swapped in my performance rotors two weeks ago, I bled the entire system with fresh fluid all the way through, and the car stops quite well. |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? i have SS lines as well and can lock my fronts at pretty much any speed... pretty awesome. running hawks hp+ fronts, and hawk hps rears. |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? ? ABS is still after the MC, so they should adjust the pressure. My other cars with 4 disk brakes takes a ton of miles to have the disk face come clear too. unless i do a reverse braking. would recommend bleeding system anyways, though. |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? 4 Attachment(s) Here is the test that was requested. I did 3 "stops" (more like slow down to 5 mph). All three were normal stops. First one was from 15 to 5, then 25 to 5, then 45 to complete stop. I marked it with two thick lines of a sharpie Front Attachment 95374 Rear Attachment 95375 After 3 stops... Front Attachment 95376 Rear Attachment 95377 As you can see it has taken the marker marks completely off. So as a result the problem you are experiencing is not an "increase more rear pressure" but in fact is a "need to bleed all the air out of your system" |
Re: Is it possible to increase rear brake pressure? Perfect, that's what I was looking for! Thanks! |
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