Rear discs are overrated
 

http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/index.htm

Acura EL 60mph-0 distance in ft (This is a civic EX sedan with rear discs instead of drums)
147

Honda civic EX Coupe 2002 with ABS braking distance 60mph-0
141

What's weird is that the four door lx model with ABS has a longer braking disntace.

Mazda 3's have really good braking distances on msn.

136 ft for the base model and 121 ft for the GT hatch.

Who ever told you that 4 wheel Discs or ABS would stop you quicker?

humm, yea... abs helps u control in a hard braking situation... and 4 discs help prevent over heating in the the rear drums

u know the one thing to really help ur stoppage is tires... the only thing between the car and the ground... u can stop only as good as ur tires

true, but most will say abs helps you stop faster in a panic situation so you dont end up sliding as if you didnt have abs and are a non experienced driver

Do you think tires are the main reason the Mazda 3 has better stopping than the civic coupe? It has slightly bigger front rotors, our front rotors are 10.3 inches and they have 10.9inch front rotors in the base model. We have 7.8 in rear drums and they have 10.4 inch discs. Its probably a combination of tires and brakes, there GT model has even bigger brakes.

coupe is lighter than a sedan ...

but that is very odd ... I would think that rear discs would stop you better ...

zzyzx: if the car had awesome tires, a rear disc setup would stop better than a drum setup, isn't that true?

aznboysrfr yeah its a little odd. Even though the numbers are from the same website maybe the test drivers are diff.

disc size has nothing to do with stopping, only heat dispertion. so if a car has discs the brakes won't fade as easy that is it. hell they used drums on the bombers in WWII to stop them on the little tiny islands. drums are actuly very efficent and stopping but very crappy at getting rid of heat.

drivetofast had rear discs on his car and his car stopped much, much, much better than mine ...

I don't think it was psychological though ....

So if they dissipipate heat better they serve to last longer during a race, but might have asverse affects on your braking distance.

Do you guys have diff tires?
Did he change his front brake pads?
Are your rotors glazed?

Maybe he's messed around with the pedal feel where he doesn't have to push it as much to get the brakes to force.

Honda Is notorious for under tireing their cars (S2000 Aside..) So, what tires does the stock Mazda 3 come with (Size, make and Model) and compair that to what the civic comes stock with (Size make and Model)

Not nessisairly, see given the same cars, one with 4 wheel disk and one with Disk + Drum.. both cars should stop in the same # of feet. what the disk will give you is the ability to push the brakes Hard Longer... (Less brake fade) But as far as one panic stop... there should be little to no difference between the two.

what tires was he running Compared to yours?

he had parada spec 2's 215/40/17 and I had 225/50/16 goodyear eagle f1 gsd3's

rims.. his were heavy 7 spoke giovanna rims and mine were ssr comps ...

Mazda 3
================
195/65R15 all-season tires (GX, GS)
205/55R16 all-season tires (Sport package, GT)

Toyo AO5 for the base model

Goodyear RS-A and for the GT


Honda Civic Ex Coupe (early 7th gens)
================
185/65HR15 Firestone FR690

I dont know what to tell you. Other then I know for a fact Disc brakes on the rear of our civics will not stop you quicker. what they will do is give you more consistant stopping over multiple stops, but they will not stop you qicker. (I can get in to the Hows & whys if you'd like)

BTW, how were you compairing stopping distances?


Nindoo:
Whats on the civic? (mines never been stock...)

185/65HR15 Firestone FR690

Theres your stopping distance difference right there...

The honda not only has a harder compound tire, but its also narower....

The Fireston FR690 is a "Standard all season tire" with a tread wear of 440...(Rock)

The Toyo AO5 ... I cant seem to find any info on..

The Goodyear RS-A is classed as a "High Performance All-Season" and has a tread wear of 260.... Much stikyier then the Hondas tires.

So, I'd suspect most of the stoping distance difference between the two is simply tire choice.

Who knows maybe our stopping is even better with the same tires.


Would these be a very good upgrade over stock

Falken Ziex ZE-512
195/60R15

zzyzx: it seemed as though the with moderate pressure on my brakes, the car would slowly and gradually come to a stop ...

but on my friend's car, it seemed to push me forward as it stopped

Probably the pedal set-up.

pedal setup? ... I dunno, who knows. my brakes seem to work very well when my engine was cold, but after a little bit of normal driving, the brakes turned to shit.

Pad Compounds will alter how much pedal preasure is needed to reach a tires "Saturation" point. so if your friend is using a "stickier" pad (One with a Higher friction level) he will use less pedal to reach that "saturation" point.

Personally, I think you just need to be a little more Enthusiastic with your brakes... as in You need to learn the limits of your brakes. you'd be supprised how much harder you can use your brakes once you lean when/where your tires will begin to lock. (Threashold braking) The important thing is that your application of the brakes is smooth. as in dont pounce on the brakes, But rather try to have a smooth progression on to the brakes (To allow weight to transfer forward). once weight is on the front end you can really apply the brakes.

Can I still push my brakes hard or will ABS not let me?

:shrug: I suppose. I don't like to be too harsh on my brakes though (but at the same time, I didn't treat his any differently).

I MAY be mistaken, but I believe he had hawk pads on the rears ... I know he had honda pads on the front with stock rotors on both ... I also had stock pads and stock rotors ...

:o

the only thing ABS will do is try and stop a wheel from locking if you hit sand or something while you are heavy on the brakes. otherwise, if/when ABS does kick in, just keep the preasure on, and let it do its job.


BTW, if you get really good at threashold braking, you will beable to stop faster in stragiht line DRy braking without ABS...

So I'll get shorter braking distance if I practice that smooth weight transfer stuff. I shouldn't depend on the ABS and just stomp on the brakes and lets the electronics take care of it.

Personally ABS annoys me in all but Low traction and Emergency situations. I disable (pull one of the fuses) it when I race. What you should probably aim for is being able to use the brakes to the point Just before ABS kicks in. If it does kick in just ease off a little.

Cool So I can pratice nonetheless. Instead of skidding I'll feel some clicking to let me know I'm screwing up.

i heard someone tell me that rear disks help keep the front of the car from "diving" as much... is that correct?

Weight is still going to transfer to the front.... so I'd have to say no, rear discs will not reduce Diving.

Changing shocks Can influence that a bit... but only by slowing it down. the same amount of weight is still going to get transfered.