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What your electrical system can take Quick Version will edit and go into more detail later... Class D amps run at about 80% Efficiency at 1/3 power.. only 50% efficiency at rated power... Class A/B Amps run about 50% efficient on average.. Figuring you have the amps driving at 3/4 Volume.. That makes your 1200 Watt class D amp running about 800Watts or so... at say 70% Efficiency 800watts at 70% effiency is 1142 Watts...at 13.8 volts(realistically) 82 amps of current The current draw is not constant as Music is Dynamic.. so for Rap and Hip hop figure only about 45% of that draw is constant (33% for msot other music programming) so 37 amps draw (24 with most other music) No figure 50Wrms x4 Class A/B Amp at 50 % Efficiency. 3/4 volume 150Wrms.. 50% Efficiency 300 watt draw or 21 amp draw.. given the 33% Musical dynamics.. that's 7 amps.. Okay so that's 44 amp draw..from a 70amp alternator..not so bad... Turn on the lights and the A/C and rev the engine to 3500Rpms.. that's about a 40 amp draw from your Accessories and ignition system.. Hmmm 84 amps.. Tis means the battery is siffering long term discharge.. and gven with lon bass hits the battery will be discharged.. A Disrcharged battery becoming a resistor and drawing more current to recharge..thus alowong less alternator current to be used to the amps and the rest of the electrical system.. In neons case a 90 amp alternator "should" Do the trick...but most alternators don't produce their full ratings under 3500Rpms..When I had my stock alt.. the highest current it would put out was 73 amps but at that draw voltage dropped to 11.9 volts..at the amps.... at 11.9 volts at the amps..they will guess what.. draw even more current to produce it's power.. See the Problem Bro..[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].. Cheers Mohawk |
great post Mohawk. that helped me a lot. :tup: |
I hate reading my posts again.. I make more spelling mistakes than these fella's http://www.engrish.com/images/buildings/fack.jpg http://www.engrish.com/images/recent...nosmorking.jpg http://www.engrish.com/images/buildi...nt-tickets.jpg lol |
Excellent post, Mohawk. Good friggin Info. Nice to know even those of us who are no longer noobs (yay!!) can still pick up new information from yall elders:). Keep droppin that science, Kuzyn. . .[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/IMG] |
Elders..just cause I have alot of white hair don't eman I'm old.. I just turned 21 dude lol |
I am going to turn 20 in a month. I like to think I am pretty smart, but nowhere near as smart as Mohawk. |
<< I am going to turn 20 in a month. I like to think I am pretty smart, but nowhere near as smart as Mohawk. >> Dude, I'm not allknowing or anything.. I just read alot..stop actin like a SideKick dude[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] |
<< Quick Version will edit and go into more detail later... Class D amps run at about 80% Efficiency at 1/3 power.. only 50% efficiency at rated power... Class A/B Amps run about 50% efficient on average.. Figuring you have the amps driving at 3/4 Volume.. That makes your 1200 Watt class D amp running about 800Watts or so... at say 70% Efficiency 800watts at 70% effiency is 1142 Watts...at 13.8 volts(realistically) 82 amps of current The current draw is not constant as Music is Dynamic.. so for Rap and Hip hop figure only about 45% of that draw is constant (33% for msot other music programming) so 37 amps draw (24 with most other music) No figure 50Wrms x4 Class A/B Amp at 50 % Efficiency. 3/4 volume 150Wrms.. 50% Efficiency 300 watt draw or 21 amp draw.. given the 33% Musical dynamics.. that's 7 amps.. Okay so that's 44 amp draw..from a 70amp alternator..not so bad... Turn on the lights and the A/C and rev the engine to 3500Rpms.. that's about a 40 amp draw from your Accessories and ignition system.. Hmmm 84 amps.. Tis means the battery is siffering long term discharge.. and gven with lon bass hits the battery will be discharged.. A Disrcharged battery becoming a resistor and drawing more current to recharge..thus alowong less alternator current to be used to the amps and the rest of the electrical system.. In neons case a 90 amp alternator "should" Do the trick...but most alternators don't produce their full ratings under 3500Rpms..When I had my stock alt.. the highest current it would put out was 73 amps but at that draw voltage dropped to 11.9 volts..at the amps.... at 11.9 volts at the amps..they will guess what.. draw even more current to produce it's power.. See the Problem Bro..[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].. Cheers Mohawk >> o come on, man, we went through this! this looks VERY great on paper, but thats like saying 8 guage can only pass through 50 amps of current before burning! cause the math makes sense, but if you hook up 8 guage to a 600 watt amp, youll be fine. why? math means nothing to real world results. and the fact is, that your 70 amp alternator CAN in fact keep up with current draws of over 2000 total system watts. are you working for an alternator company? cause the fact is, that anyone here will be FINE with NO alternator upgrade, not even a battery upgrade. my total system watts = 720 watts RMS at 12.4 volts, which means much more power at 14! that is 600 class D watts , and 170 class A/B watts, im not even using my amps to their full potential! (more to come on that later [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]) there are people here who run ALOT more power than I am on stock alternators and are JUST fine. like I said, looks great on paper, and works mathematically, but when it comes to real world results, the fact is, you can beat up your alternator stock ALOT before it dies, and your battery can handle running high power stereos AND all your electronics just fine. If you want, ill turn up my system VERY loud and take a video of my voltmeter needle dancing, no doubt thre is a voltage drop happening, but the electrical system as a whole can keep up with OVERALL curent draw just fine. if what you say is true, and turned out to be true in the real world, then there would be ALOT of people with ALOT of problems :):)[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG] |
Hmm, let's see, who to trust here? A new guy that just starts posting stuff, or someone that has been around a long time and has proven that he knows his stuff. What a though decision... |
<< Hmm, let's see, who to trust here? A new guy that just starts posting stuff, or someone that has been around a long time and has proven that he knows his stuff. What a though decision... >> haha this is the kind of mentality that wastes 1000's of dollars, but I dont have that kind of cash to drop on frivolus items haha. try getting some education before blindly putting people down. are you a religious man? im betting you are, you seem to have alot of blind faith in someone you dont even know....... im still searching for the best quote for here, but if anyone wants to prove mohawk wrong, just ask Richard Clark on carsound, im still doing searches on the forum there. got a couple quotes: "if you are lucky someday you will come to grips with the fact that audio is a lot like religion----most of what is done is not because it makes sense but because it is profitable for someone-----sure your amps draw what appears to be large amounts of current----but that number is with a test tone and not music---an amp is not like a light or fan motor that draws a continuous amount of current----an amp draws current in "gulps" and then pauses-----the power requirement is the AVERAGE----the alternator produced continuous energy whenever the engine is running----it stores this energy in the battery that is able to provide large "chunks" of energy almost continuously as long as the continuous stream of energy comes from the alternator----i believe i can safely say that 95 % of the aternators that are added to cars are totally not needed and in many cases provide less overall usefulness than the original------------------and imtfox?-----you are correct-----if the wiring did not cause a problem there should be no warranty issue but if the dealer decides it is, it just might be up to you to PROVE THAT IT DIDN'T cause the problem---- and when it comes to wiring it is goin to be pretty hard to stand up in court against a "authorized factory dealer".............RC" also from a buddy of mine "Semi.. Richard Clark on Carsound proved, using class A/B amps, that a stock 75 amp alternator could support over 2000 watts!" the search continues....... nrrhgreg: your pretty good at taking trash. how old are you? 15? 16? or are you just acting like one? next time try providing evidence to support mohawk or prove me wrong. that is teh true way to win a debate. |
<< << Hmm, let's see, who to trust here? A new guy that just starts posting stuff, or someone that has been around a long time and has proven that he knows his stuff. What a though decision... >> haha this is the kind of mentality that wastes 1000's of dollars, but I dont have that kind of cash to drop on frivolus items haha. try getting some education before blindly putting people down. are you a religious man? im betting you are, you seem to have alot of blind faith in someone you dont even know....... >> Now wait, I didn't necessarily say you were wrong, because quite frankly, I don't know what the real deal is about this. I was just saying that you coming on here and start calling someone who is respected on here flat out wrong is not the best way to get people to believe/trust you. Especially with out any background info or proof. |
more car sound quotes: "I have had three different aftermarket alternators in my car...They all failed and were replaced under warranty...when the last one failed I put the factory alt. back in and it delivers higher voltage at idle. It hasn't failed yet and I am happy with it." Guys, I am gonna beat a dead horse here for the millionth time and tell you when you really need, a new alternator. When your car fails to start in the morning following a long night of cruising and listening to music. And then only if you determine that you don't have an old battery that can't hold a charge. Now if you don't believe me that it will not make a dimes worth of difference in your car try something easy before you go to the trouble. Ask a friend that has already wasted his money on a big fancy alternator to park beside your car with the engine running. Hook up a set of good jumper cables and have him put them on and off while you listen to your stereo. See if you can hear the difference. Try this simple test and you will never waste money on an alternator upgrade ever again. And as for the small pulleys that idle at 2500 to 3000; if you think you can drive for very long at highway speeds with an alternator spinning at 12000 to 15000+ you have a rude awakening ahead. RC" "guys----alternators fail early in cars that have increased electrical demands for the same reasons transmissions fail in cars that are used to haul trailers and boats---but like transmissions the failures are easily fixed---it usually only requires replacement of brushes and or a few other inexpensive parts ----that is if the failures are not catastrophic due to poor system operation----by this i mean if you play the system for long periods of time and then start the car with a weak battery the charging requirements are going to be excessive---much more than powering the system----if the requirement were to only power the stereo the problem would not be so common----if everytime you left your car you left the lights on till the battery could barely start the car you would see a drastic reduction in alternator life as well---for system operation most factory alternators are adequate but the problem comes when the battery is abused due to different listening habits that arise from the installation of a "new stereo"" "So what's the clue? It's a near-dead, or dying battery that kills your alternator, NOT your stereo. That's because the load created by listening to MUSIC on a stereo is best compared to other loads by using a term called a "duty cycle". Music loads you electrical system with something like a 10% duty cycle, meaning that it's not drawing a steady current, but a series of high peak, short duration loads. But charging a dead or near-dead battery,.... that's probably something like a near 100% duty cycle. Then your alternator is operating in "full-field" mode, and producing a near constant current. Al... do us all a favor and don't throw your money away. OK? " i think we got a bunch of "Al's" over here, woundn't you say? |
"i was running 7 spb1000s off a factory hyundai alternator on 4 PHD2s last year with out burning up an alt........" a PHD2 is probably the most efficient 2000 watt amp out there, drawing about 255 amps to put out its rated 2000 watts. 4 PHD2's? doesnt sound like a daily driver to me........ and the search for Richard Clarks famous thread continues...... |
here's a quote for ya winnie the Pooh "Oh Silly rabbit"..:) Running all those amps off a stock alternator is more than fine.. because as a pure fact were you cranking your system and I mean cranking it wit that much power while bumping.. HEILL NO!!!..As for listening to everything Richard clark says and not actually learning things for yourself the fun way(hard/dumb way) more like it I wouldn't get too preachy.... You can crank your system hard and yout meter will bounce and dip down to 11 volts.. but shoot back to 14 during bass hits.. then level off at aboive 12 volts..yeah.. but if you read my posts your 600Wrms of class D power and 170Wrms of Class A/B power is well in the perfectly safe range for your electrical system..so poor example there. I Agree that in alot of cases a stock alternator is more than adequate even for a high power system.. why.. Most people's ears can't handle that much power to their system without going deff, getting blurred vision and having they eardrums swell up and get itchy for awhile.. The High Output alternators your hero Richard clark was reffering to were alternator shop re-winds.. Those are 75% Unreliable and are crap at low RPM's.. some will actually draw current untill it begins it's charging speed.. And as Far as Richard Clarks advice and Proof goes.. a fun dude named Eddie Runner has proven him wrong on many occasions. Sure he is rigt on msot things as am I.. I'm not always right.. I'm not a died hard 12 volt guru...But I share what I know...which is a fair bit...but not like a 23 year veteran installer would for sure. As for my reccomendations to people running 1500Watt+ Systems.. a High output alternator is a great safety feature.. May not be a necessity.. but given that at the shop I work part time at a few people have fried they're ECU's and had to dish out over $2g's because they're cars were leased for a new one.. they weren't too happy. Ohio Generator makes the most reasonably prices readily available alternators on the market...and they are bullet proff reliable... There's a newer fella named Dominick Iraggi who makes high output alts.. so Far no one has had any complaints.. Taking advice from old timers who make MAJOR$$$$ and haven't been in the field doing real work for awhile isn't the wisest thing to do. I don't doubt Rick Clarke's Knowledge on car audio.. but how many megawatt systems he ever run [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].. I get alot of my information and knowledge from Competitions and competitors.. what better way to elarn than from the people trying to achieve the highest levels of excellence in car audio..[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]. I Don't mind you stating your opinions and your Ideas and beliefs...It's more than welcome.. You may know some things I don't..I learn from everyone wherever I can... But Ease up on the religious accusations and Quotes from Rick Clark [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].... Be Civil.. Be Educated and Debate your views and knowledge... Don't run accusations and hard facts(if they are that) and passionate semi-educated arguements... In other words.. like my momma used to say.... Think about what yor gonna say before it flies out your mouth.. Cheers Mohawk |
as far as the reliability of richard clark, im not a member of carsound, so i dont know anything about him. What I do know si that not everything that works out on paper works in the real world, and there are plenty of competitors where I grew up that run on stock electrical systems hitting over 160. like I said, if you want to spend the $$$$$ chasing a ghost, be my guest, that is my opinion and yours. as far as stsing that an electrical system CANT support power levels above XXX, well, that just ISNT correct. you say you get your information from competitors, i get my real world testimony from competitors too. check out any audio forum, ask the big SPL competitors who runs large alternators, I bet many do ask the small time competitors who runs them, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts not many do...... they know how expensive this hobby is, and they cant support everything at once.... especially when their stock alternator keeps up with current draw fine. you didnt say anything about my 8 guage wire example! theoretically can not handle more than 50 amp draw? who here runs amps of over 600 watts on 8 gauge? you might be surprised..... as far as being civil, I am only civil to those who treat me civil, and saying everything I say is bull**** by telling me I am not to be trusted simply because of the time I spend here IS in fact, bull****. I will attack those people with snide, rude, and foolish comments if i so choose with no evidence to back me up whatsoever because they themselves did not give me the benefit of the doubt either. you make a good argument to undermine Richard Clark tho, like I said, im not a member there, I read his articles last year, thats basically it. when a good friend of mine who has been in caraudio for over a decade pointed me in his direction, I searched for his fabled 2000 watt stock alternator thread, couldnt find it *shrug* Id like to see eddie runners testimony that proves him wrong about alternators, please. finally, to opinions and beliefs, it is not an opinion that heavy current draw systems will do fine on a stock alternator, it is a FACT. why? becasue many, many people do it. period. obviously, this can not be a perfect record, even I could give you an example of someones stock (firebird) alternator popping, and that with only a single D2 amp. I should not have posted in this thread, tho. I should let you all just believe what you want to, cause really in the end, its not my money your spending. I thought I could save you some money, becasue out there, hundreds of people run large systems on stock alernators with no problems, but If you think it cant be done, then o well. BTW, has anyone considered fitting a second alternator under the hood? im sure it can be done SOMEHOW, and its the SUREST way to isolate the electrical system for the stereo/neons/anythingelse from teh core car functions....... tho it WILL cost a bit more than $300.........but really it would be teh best way to ensure to not meddle with the existing electrical system...........a big plus when claiming warrantee on possible problems.... |
dam you people have got me confused. ill stick to my Sounddomain readings. lucly im im only going to be running about 500 watts |
Sound Domain is a great knowlege center.. as is Termpro and Elitecaraudio.com.. Carsound has a lot of old pro's and alot of newbies and not too many (but some) Serious competitors..it's a good place but..I prefer SD.. BTW.. know a fellow named Boomhorse on Sound domain.. Great guy..Knows his stuff.. I hear he drives a VPP civic sedan too.. he he he Cheers Mohawk:):) |
Whoa there, Carsound is THE home of the cream of the crop in car audio competition today....Gary Biggs, Steven Head, Scott Buwalda, Mark Eldridge, Jose Perez, Rick McCallum, Eric Fitzgerald...the list goes on and on. Carsound is where you will find extremely accurate information from intelligent and mature competitors who know what they are doing and are doing it VERY well, especially in the IASCA & USACI forums. |
And the Beat Goes on.. I Have the memory retention of a dead cat sometimes he he.. as for the 8 Guage wire for over 50 amps of current.. it's safe yes.. it can be done yes.. Reccomended.. no because of the actual resistance per foot of 8 gauge wire in comparison to 4 gauge.. by using the smaller wire your adding more unnecessary resisitance which draws a wee bit more current..so on that point.. tis done..4 if better but 8 can be used safely and without causing a fire form medium powered systems.. Eddie Runner as far as my knowlegde goes hasn;t posted anything about H.O Alts.. If you read my posts about the H.O alts.. I geneally add to be safe it's better to gow the the H/O alternator.. Yes a stock can keep up.. but are you 100% Sure.. alot of people burned out alts over and over again.. Not very many but some have fried their ECU's.. For Bigtim competitors all having H.O Alts.. well in Street yeah.. in Super Street not as often as most run Many batteries and don't power off the alternator.. As a matter of $$ goes...with big expenditures should come a bit of research and education to keep everything safe and reliable....running craploads of power on a stock electrical system can work.. usually will..but for how long..and is it worth chancing it.. Fry an alternator and a dealer sees some huge amps in your trunk..hey. they write Honda America or Honda canada a report.. and they no longer cover your electrical system warranty...Wanna chahnce that one?... Also Who verbally slandered you.. nrrhgreg?? Read that carefully he was making a comment for you to take it easy and be a little more easy going about your posts.... Don;t get too emotional and confrontation amigo.. It;s a forum....it's a forum to discuss and share ideas and knowledge and to learn through discussion.. Not through aggravated posts which your taking a bit too seriously.. I'd very much like for you to remain a memebr on this Forum you seem to know your stuff quite good...and you like to argue (altough you try debating a little more) other options nd opinions.. which is great..I'm not all-knowing nor are you..so far reading through our posts there's both points I can see Where I'm wrong as are you..I'm learning from this and broadening my knowledge... Reply and debate this... Don't make it a "heated" Arguement dude..I'm trying to discuss Ideas and theories and you'r making me fall into arguing with you..... Can't we all just get along [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].. |
<< Whoa there, Carsound is THE home of the cream of the crop in car audio competition today....Gary Biggs, Steven Head, Scott Buwalda, Mark Eldridge, Jose Perez, Rick McCallum, Eric Fitzgerald...the list goes on and on. Carsound is where you will find extremely accurate information from intelligent and mature competitors who know what they are doing and are doing it VERY well, especially in the IASCA & USACI forums. >> the cavalry has arrived! haha! alot of ppl dont like termpro casue, like indybBS, the mods are from nazi germany. anyone wanna see what im talking about, go there, and post a thread about how terrible Image Dynamics is. I guess they know their stuff..... best audio forum is CAF, the people there know their stuff, not too many SPL competitors there, its mainly and SQ board, but there are a couple of people there who have forgotten more about caraudio than ill ver know [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG] i like sound domain's members pages tho, ANY install you can imagine, its there [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] |
""Don;t get too emotional and confrontation amigo.. It;s a forum....it's a forum to discuss and share ideas and knowledge and to learn through discussion.. Not through aggravated posts which your taking a bit too seriously.. I'd very much like for you to remain a memebr on this Forum you seem to know your stuff quite good...and you like to argue (altough you try debating a little more) other options nd opinions.. which is great..I'm not all-knowing nor are you..so far reading through our posts there's both points I can see Where I'm wrong as are you..I'm learning from this and broadening my knowledge..."" haha tell THAT to the bastids at indybbs LOL [IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG] sooooooooooooooooooo ........... does boom horse have three W6 in his civic, hitting mid 140's, by chance, in or near new york? |
No Boomhorse has 2 (1 blown Audiomobile EVO-R) hitting low 150's lives just outside of Montreal..[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] |
oh different person then. =/ |
<< Whoa there, Carsound is THE home of the cream of the crop in car audio competition today....Gary Biggs, Steven Head, Scott Buwalda, Mark Eldridge, Jose Perez, Rick McCallum, Eric Fitzgerald...the list goes on and on. Carsound is where you will find extremely accurate information from intelligent and mature competitors who know what they are doing and are doing it VERY well, especially in the IASCA & USACI forums. >> See I'm not always right lol..I been to carsound quite a few times though and Very often the bigboys won;t grace people with their wisdom..(probably too busy) so the Forum may be home to the nig namers..but in ym experiance.. often times they aren't much help past the threads they started to educate people.. Like my post on this topic..and Rick is a great help but he's quite busy.. Specially since he's been getting a lot of Raam Mat Orders recently for some reason [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]..and he's working on his new Matrix....or letting it e a guinea pig for a turbo.. a CAI, an SRI.. a Coil-over kit.. and Exhaust system.. lol.. poor fella..I'd wanna cry seeing my car used for experiments.. but hey Sponsorship has it's goodies and baddies.. I wish I was sponsored..lol |
<< oh different person then. =/ >> Boomhorse lives 45 minutes from Plattsburgh NY used to have 3 10w6's ported in his Hyundai Sonata hittin low mid 14's with a PPI PC2600 [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].... that was like dayum. little over 2 years ago though.. BTW.. Mohawkboomhorse is Me.. |
*shrug*, the guy i know has three W6 in the back of a civic, pulling mid 140's with 400 watts TOTAL to the three [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG] thought id ask, cause that guy knows his stuff [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] |
A Sonata's a midsized sedan.. little harder to crank Big SPL [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]....even in my Civic sedan it's not the best SPL car.. sheetmatals too weak mostly...Hatches tend to work better..Even coupes have better SPL properties.. less air leaks and moving parts.. |
but you gotta admit the civic's one saving grace is the fantastic bass transfer........ [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG] |
Well, you've already sated your opinion about Richard Clark (mantioned this to the mods at CAF, they pitched in "So he admits he doesn't know what he's talking about, and that he isn't very experienced with audio equipment or high wattage stereos at all" =/) apparently, Richard Clark had a thunderbird with a stock 70 amp alternator running four MTX 2300's, no problem =/ anyways, I know youll take it with a pinch of salt, but I found the infamous richard clark page where he discisses it, there is also a new page where he upps that number to 3000 watts. http://www.carsound.com/ubb/ultimate...12;t=000285;p= i cant believe i read this whole thing. actually this post is basically just about how caps are completely useless in a system. and I understand why you dont like Richard Clark, he is pretty high and mighty! however he has forgotten more about caraudio than you and I will ever know, combined [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/IMG] I cant believe i read every single word of that thread! :eek: there goes 1 hr 10 min of my life...informative tho. It looks like your math was almost fully correct, tho. exept teh duty cycle for music is 10-20%, and bigger cable is reccommended due to inductive reactance, not due to resistance. (now what is inductive reactance)[IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/IMG] http://www.carsound.com/ubb/ultimate...c;f=1;t=015058 another really good post, you say youve gotten alot of messed up ECU's, im starting to wonder if it really WAS the stereo's fault for its destuction, and if it was, would a HO alternator really help? dang, alot of time and effort went into this post. not to mention teh original cap post [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/IMG] |
"now what is inductive reactance" Reactive inductance is a reactive load from the reactive resistance from voice coils [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]..it's resistance worded more descriptively [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].. I'm at work till 8pm tonight Eastern time so I'll read that book later..thanks for the link tho..and Richard clark has not forgotten mroe than we'll ever know.. as a new internet generation we have the shared resources and combined knowledge available of all the old timers, all the current stars, alot of the new up and comers..tons of things the old guys never had at their disposal..[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]. so gimme till I'm 30.. I'll know more than richard has ever forgotten.. gimme till I'm 40 I'll crush him [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]... but by then I'll be a megalomaniac too Cheers Mohawk |
a yeah.. Also I checked up on this on rec.audio.car the Duty cycle for music like jazz, Soft rock, oldies is 10-20% for Rap, Hip hop, Most heavy metal where there is much louder and more constant sounds it's about 33% give or take.. BASS CD's run about a 45% Duty cycle <--new word).. |
some how if richard clark says that teh duty cycle for music is 10-20%, it seems to me that that would be for heavy bass music (tho i doundt doubt it would be less for jazz, that hardly uses any of my sub at all [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]) and inductance as a resistance is quite different than resistance in itself. resistance to waterflow is based soley on pipe size (or electrons in a wire) but inductive resistance actually increases as current increases! (the harder you push, the harder it pushes back) makes sense, thats why the more power you get from an alternator, the more power you have ot put in it to make it turn! [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG] I got some more good stuff for ya, one of teh big boys on CAF more or less says we are arguing different things on the same concept, but as I have a lab report to finish right now (I thought it was supposed ot be finished four weeks ago? [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/IMG]:frown[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG] you'll just have to wait till seven-ish before i can get back on here [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/IMG] reactive inductance was sarcastic, but could i get a link for that 45% duty cycle? rec.audio.car is responsible for all teh basic caraudio knowledge i have! but its been a few months since iv been on the site, i dont think that information would be on the setion i read (actually, i didnt know thre was anything else than what i read.....) |
ther Bass CD's at 45% Duty sysclem is very realistic through common sense.. Most bass CD's will play louder than Actual test tones..most bass CD's have bass going more than 50% of the time.. but not all that much midrange sound.. I said up to 45%.. the reactive inductance is the load on the voice coils.. at certain frequencies the impedance to move the cone differs greatly..that's what that is.[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].. From testing (which I'll do more of tomorrow while I'm off work) I'll hook up a few miltimeters, pop in a bass CD and monitor my current draw and volage and see what I come up with. Cheers |
<< Most bass CD's will play louder than Actual test tones >> sorry, thats just BS, you should know that! maybe you should tell me why this is false? and anything that carries a current carries an inductive reactance, just like everything that carries a current has a resistance...... "if i can see far, it is only because i stand on the shoulders of giants" youll read that soon enuff ;p |
Inductive resistance is caused by heat build in wire..the wire gets warmer resistance increases but that's such a negligable factor that it's pointless to to argue..unless your using 8 guage wire for a 1000 watt amp .. As for the Bass CD playing louder than test tones this in fact is true.. which is why for Tripple point DB Drag events they require you to use their CD's where as at single point events you can use your own.. this to even out the playing field because some tracks are recorded at a higher sensitivity (will play louder at same volume level on a HU).. Ask Tom Nousaine about this one... he always gets 1-3 DB's more on all his subwoofers tests using 976 Bass from a bass CD thean when he runs sine waves through it.. Things that make you go HMMMM .. |
this must be why everyone who competes everywhere uses sin waves. cause one person can get higher SPL levels playing music. there is no way that bass farts get you less SPL than playing tones for an extended time, unless you are talking about a deathmatch or something. an SPL burp simply causes a spike on the meter, you cant really beat that....... so tell me.....what do YOU use for competition? as far as using a bigger wave, thats like saying a line driver to boost voltage will ALWAYS boost SPL, your amp has limits to how far you can push it before it clips, no matter how big or small teh wave is, no matter how big or small the input voltage is. (key word is ALWAYS, which is why saying that statement is false) fun to play with an osciliscope! :) |
as to the reply I got from a very knowlegable source, I was informed that A/C is belt driven (I got an HX, never had a car with A/C, and I dont need it) said he would "be surprised if the whole A/C system drew more than 10-15 amps TOTAL!" "And yes, IF total current draw was 85 amps and IF your alternator was putting out 75 amps, the battery would be slowly discharging.. but only when the stereo was on.. it WILL charge quickly after volume levels are reduced or the current demand is reduced." and of course, from our "lessons" with Richard Clark, we have learned that a battery stores a FANTASTIC charge, would take a long time to discharge a battery if you had a surplus demand of only 5 amps.... (If you are using a yellowtop, anyways) and of course, IF you buy an alternator, you have to make sure it puts out power when its needed! if your 473920489023 amp alternator puts out power at 6000 RPM's, and 40 amps at 2000 RPM's, its not gonna do you too much good in the lanes, much less on the road. (of course, in the lanes you will ALWAYS be running on battery power....) IF the alternator cant keep up with the draw, then it WILL take its current from the battery, and IF that load drops to where the alternator can pick back up, then it will run teh system AND recharge the battery as well..... "And some people run extra batteries close-coupled near their amps... depending on listening habits or the intent of the stereo's usage (like an electrical pump's "duty cycle".. what percentage of time are you listening to it?), this can help.. Large capacitors close-coupled with the amp can help too.. No they don't help the amp make more power.. But they are like little electrical shock absorbers, for instantaneous hits like kick drums, they do the trick... For long drawn out bass-CD type stuff, well, needless to say there will be some battery draw!" I honestly dont know what either one of us is trying to prove anymore. He told me we were both right [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG] Does this mean that if you play music that draws more current than the alternator can support more htan 50% of teh time you WILL slowly discharge the battery? yes. does this mean that if you are a person who does this, that you NEED to go out an purchase an alternator, or be doomed to completely drain your battery often? no. it is a fact, that many people have run high draw systems in a car with stock alternators and been fine. it is not a neccesary purchase (unless that light dimming really does bug you [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]) |
and inductive reactance is the AC version of resistance, where the opposition to that flow is caused by the presence of an inductor in a cuircuit. In a DC circiut, it is the change in charge flow that causes this resistance, such as if suddenly you had a HUGE demand for current in your system (bass kicks.....) and if you dont think that a straight wire can create a magnetic field, jack one of those neato cow magnet field display thingies from your physics department, o ryou can try it with a compass (i dont know if that will work, it should, but ive only used the cow magnet thingie) and play music that varies greatly with current draw with the "field sensor" (just a bunch of iron fillings suspended in liquid) near the power cable. youll see the interaction between the filings when the bass hits. at THIS point, im gonn start talking out of my ass, so it should be easy to prove me wrong.... IF you couldnt run more than 50 amps through an 8 guage..... now, you say that the wire will heat up, i agree, and tha tresistance will increase, i agree, but eventually the voltage drop from teh wire alone should be enough to cause the amp to go into protection, from an anylitical point of view, shouldnt this occur BEFORE the wire has enough time to catch fire? this is all theory, of course..... |
See all these long arguements and theories and such prooved a learnign experiance for us both and put us both much closer to the actual real truth....[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] Reactive inductance isn't caused in all A/C applications.. like light bulbs.. However when dealing with magnets and moving masses it's a big effect.. when a woofer cone moves in one direction at high velocity, to stop it and fight the force using the magnetic pull of the magnet causes alot of resistance..basically using Electro magnetism to move mass and fight inertia.... to generate heat Reactive inductance plays no real factor I.e Light bults.. baseboard heaters.. only where electro magnetism is involved..or in products that generate high magnetic fields.. As far as 8 guage actually catching fire... Not unless you use to short a battery directly [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]..but the resistance in the wire will cause larger voltage drops which will cause amps to draw more current... As far as the Sine waves in Competition...the reason for that is Playing ONLY a tone matching your port tuning/ cars resonant frequency... and the purpose of burps is to negate the effect of voltage drops because it's nothing more than a surge.. where batteries can put out higher amounts of electricity than their CCA rating.. Much like A/C-DC Converters.. a 600 power converter can handle 600 watts constant but generally have a 1000 watt + Surge rating.. For the magentic field around power wires.. well even your RCA's generate magnetic fields, but those are so weak that they are nearly undetectable even with fairly sensitive electronic test equipment.. as far as the use of line drivers.. THey can make bass louder in alot of systems purely bsed on the fact that it's sending a much cleaner signa at high power levels which means less distortion.. better subwoofer controll.. less clipping.. a little more SPL.. as far as using a high output alternator and cranking your system alot..if you pound for extended periods of time at high levels you battery will drain slowly.. as it drains you constant voltage drops as well which causes other electrical components in the car to also draw more current..which causes more heat in smaller wires like those of an ECU... Talking to Richard clarke as well did you mention the stock alternators only having a 70 amp output.. I've told many members who plan on running big amps and alot of power thattheir stock alt will do.. if the bump too hard for too long.. and turn the volume down about 5 minutes before they get home to allow the battery to recharge itself properly to avoid problems.. in my case.. I road trip alot, I'm 50% deaf and driving for 6 hours at high levels would toast my battery.. Before I got ym H/O alternator I ran the same power on my stock system.. after 3 hours driving.. turning my car off (gotta pee sometimes).. My car would take some serious effort to start..so to remedie this I got an Isolator and a Optim yellow for my trunk.. after 2-3 hours my amps went into protection because my battery could no longer supply the minimum 10 volts...so it'd cut out for a half hour.. then I could crank it again for another hour or 2.. (Optima yellows are great.. they can deep cycled ALOT with no ill effects)..Now with ym H/O Alternator.. Watching my Capacitors voltage meter when I fold my back seats down I'm cranking it HARD.. and always above 13.5 volts [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]..so... it bought me peace of mind.. Constant output (no variances due to constant voltage variations) (No Worries at all..even at Idle with my system cranked listenign to Bass CD's (which I hate I can;t stand cRAP music) I'm still holding over 13 volts.. ALso I live in canada where it gets cold.. Which greatly reduces a batteries output potential...so tis a grand thing to have.. and for $600 ($300ish once Mr. Irragi makes one for our cars) is a pretty good investment.. Also... If you had a Bentley.. would you run any amps????[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].. Stock 40 amp alternator leaves about 8-10 amps headroom to power all them sensors, fire 16 spark plugs...lights..he he.. In that case could you run a sytem off that alternator?.. With a GM 105 amp alternator.. no shoudln't have any problems.. but 35 more amps of output X13.8 volts= 483 watts more power that can safely be run,, now with music cycles being anywhere from 10-45% that can mean another 1000 watt class D amp or more [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].. Your great to argue with.. we keep learning from each other here....keep the feeding the fire of growth...(yes I am in fact very sleepy right now) Cheers Mohawk |
o man, where to begin...... << See all these long arguements and theories and such prooved a learnign experiance for us both and put us both much closer to the actual real truth....[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] >> and this is why this forum is so great. remember kids, you will get banned from other forums for participating what mohawk and i are. :) been learning every day! =p << Reactive inductance isn't caused in all A/C applications.. like light bulbs.. However when dealing with magnets and moving masses it's a big effect.. when a woofer cone moves in one direction at high velocity, to stop it and fight the force using the magnetic pull of the magnet causes alot of resistance..basically using Electro magnetism to move mass and fight inertia.... to generate heat Reactive inductance plays no real factor I.e Light bults.. baseboard heaters.. only where electro magnetism is involved..or in products that generate high magnetic fields.. >> never said anything about that. but trying to shove mass amounts of current through a wire, the resistance caused by reactive inductance may provide more resistance than just the reisstance of the wire itself! Gonna ask a buddy about that one, just to be sure.... as far as RCA's are concerned, that is why voltage is so important. this is why power towers and power poles have voltages in the thousands and millions of volts. higher the voltage, the smaller the voltage drop over large distances. as the voltage drops, the total power an the system drops, and thus the current at the new potential is MUCH lower. << As far as 8 guage actually catching fire... Not unless you use to short a battery directly [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]..but the resistance in the wire will cause larger voltage drops which will cause amps to draw more current... >> high resistance = low current low resistance = high current actually this has to do with the statement above. if a wire heats up, then its resistance increases, if its resistance increases, then its current decreases. resistance is related inversely proportional to power, current, and voltage. and as far as catching fire i dunno, but it is NOT good to put an earthquake D2 on one of those, not if your running the wire from the trunk to the battery. << As far as the Sine waves in Competition...the reason for that is Playing ONLY a tone matching your port tuning/ cars resonant frequency... and the purpose of burps is to negate the effect of voltage drops because it's nothing more than a surge.. where batteries can put out higher amounts of electricity than their CCA rating.. Much like A/C-DC Converters.. a 600 power converter can handle 600 watts constant but generally have a 1000 watt + Surge rating.. << you still havent told me what you run..[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG].. I agree with what you say in its entirety here. now tha tyou have said this, please re-explain to me how playing music can yield 1-3 Db higher, and explain how this can be applied universally, one example of this is not enough to convince me.... >> the magentic field around power wires.. well even your RCA's generate magnetic fields, but those are so weak that they are nearly undetectable even with fairly sensitive electronic test equipment.... << If you spend <$3 on RCA's, I suspect you will be able to detect. RCA cables are heavily shielded, this is to prevent outside signals from interfereing. The signals are low themselves because they run at as high a voltage as they canim sure you can come up with reasons why it is desireable to have a large voltage (tho to a point you dont absolutely NEED any more voltage.... just the the alternator!:cool[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG] >> as far as the use of line drivers.. THey can make bass louder in alot of systems purely bsed on the fact that it's sending a much cleaner signa at high power levels which means less distortion.. better subwoofer controll.. less clipping.. a little more SPL.... << SPL systems have exactly ZERO distortion to begin with. distortion lowers SPL = loose competition. you want to reach the PEAK wave without ANY sort of clipping. As amps take in current from the .25 to the 2-4 volt level, i fyou have 4 volt outs, you have PLENTY of power for 99% of the amps out there, to reach the amps maximum potential, tho I'm sure you have an example of one or two SPL competitors who INSIST on line drivers....If youd like I can proveide examples of people who added line drivers to teh system and htey added too much noise to the system, sounded better and got louder wihtout. >> as far as using a high output alternator and cranking your system alot..if you pound for extended periods of time at high levels you battery will drain slowly.. as it drains you constant voltage drops as well which causes other electrical components in the car to also draw more current..which causes more heat in smaller wires like those of an ECU... Talking to Richard clarke as well did you mention the stock alternators only having a 70 amp output.... << first of all, the ECU is heavily regulated to prevent problems like this. I suspect all of your ECU problems stemmed from problems with the regulators, not due to the heavy draw of the system. But that is just my inner common sence talking, not any evidence or proof. not really worried about that. and I didnt have to mention a 70 amp alternator, it was richard clark himself who mentioned it talking about an alternator being able to take up to and over 3000 watts now just fine..... >> I've told many members who plan on running big amps and alot of power thattheir stock alt will do.. if the bump too hard for too long.. and turn the volume down about 5 minutes before they get home to allow the battery to recharge itself properly to avoid problems.. in my case.. I road trip alot, I'm 50% deaf and driving for 6 hours at high levels would toast my battery.... << I agree with this practice everywhere..... you turn it off a couple blocks before, not only does your system have time to recharge, but your not advertising to anyone in the mall parking lot what you got.....theft resistance...... >> Before I got ym H/O alternator I ran the same power on my stock system.. after 3 hours driving.. turning my car off (gotta pee sometimes).. My car would take some serious effort to start..so to remedie this I got an Isolator and a Optim yellow for my trunk.. after 2-3 hours my amps went into protection because my battery could no longer supply the minimum 10 volts...so it'd cut out for a half hour.. then I could crank it again for another hour or 2.. (Optima yellows are great.. they can deep cycled ALOT with no ill effects)..Now with ym H/O Alternator.. Watching my Capacitors voltage meter when I fold my back seats down I'm cranking it HARD.. and always above 13.5 volts [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]..so... it bought me peace of mind.. Constant output (no variances due to constant voltage variations) (No Worries at all..even at Idle with my system cranked listenign to Bass CD's (which I hate I can;t stand cRAP music) I'm still holding over 13 volts.. ALso I live in canada where it gets cold.. Which greatly reduces a batteries output potential...so tis a grand thing to have.. and for $600 ($300ish once Mr. Irragi makes one for our cars) is a pretty good investment.... << richard clark proved that caps do nothing in a car...unless you got a big cap with a low ESR rating, or your bass requirements are not very amp consuming when the draw is too much for the alt. and I'm VERY curious as to what brand cap you have, my buddy got a bargain cap, his voltage would bounce all over the place when we watched the voltmeter on it... actually the voltage on my car has fewer problems! (of course RC "lessons" taught us why...) >> Also... If you had a Bentley.. would you run any amps????[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].. Stock 40 amp alternator leaves about 8-10 amps headroom to power all them sensors, fire 16 spark plugs...lights..he he.. In that case could you run a sytem off that alternator?.... << the question here is civics, not bentlys. and I dont know anything about bentlys, or any other car I will never own ever in my life... so I dont really care..... i guess i wouldnt run any amps in teh bently ill never own. *shrug* now, if CIVICS came with a 40 amp alternator stock, THEN I might give this some thought..... >> With a GM 105 amp alternator.. no shoudln't have any problems.. but 35 more amps of output X13.8 volts= 483 watts more power that can safely be run,, now with music cycles being anywhere from 10-45% that can mean another 1000 watt class D amp or more [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].... << but who will be running an extra 1000 watts? its gonna be the SPL competitor? how many people have multi kilowatt SQ systems/daily drivers? now compare that to teh number of multi kilowatt systems that are dedicated to SPL? I dont think any of us would be surprised to hear that answer...... >> Your great to argue with.. we keep learning from each other here....keep the feeding the fire of growth...(yes I am in fact very sleepy right now) >> As are you, Im not gonna be online much next week, spring break, so im going home, no computer over the weekend, and i got a couple o things to take care of (must get components, dun care anymore if they HCCA or a/d/s [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]) and if you think that you can hear the differnece between amps, then Richard Clark will write you a check for $10,000. no joke, and capacitors, another $5,000. that goes for anyone at all! giv ehim a buzz! [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG] |
OMG look at that post! :eek: i promise to never do that agiain!:eek: |
Allright I just woke up so i'm gonna only reply to a little of this.. For Line Drivers, for single or dual amp setups they're not too useful. But running 4 or more amps the 4 volt HU output being split reduces voltage and signal clarity to each amp. Which is where a line driver plays a major role. As Far as SPL systems not being distorted.. well possibly the amps aren't distorting, but run 4kw to a DD 9515 and tell that cone it's flexing like a MoFo...[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] a THD up to 10% is considered normal for SPL runs without any loss of SPL due to cone breakup and irregularities. As far as the stock alternator with Richard Clarke he was referring to a stock GM a/c Delco 105 amp alternator...(which is considered the "norm" Because ford also uses 90-105 amp alternators..Mazda, Honda, and MItsubishi use alot of 70amp alternators (all made by mitsubishi(the alts anyways) Chryslers which are mitsubishi's use at least 90 amp alternators..) But alas the biggest problem with civics alts isn't necessarily the output.. it's heat.. No fans..as an alternator gets hotter it's output is reduced quite a bit..which is why alot of Mazda 60amp alts get replaced every day [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].... for my cap I use a 1.5 Farad Lightning audio Storm digitop.. Has the lowest ESR tested for caps that I've seen...Most other companies won't even advertise the caps ESR.... I use it purely to keep voltage stable during long bass hits..I am afterall running an SQ system with nearly 3(more like 2.5) Horspower to move my speakers [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].. (just about 1700Wrms).. And Tell Richard CLarke to write me that check for $10,000 because there are acoustical differences between alot of amplifiers.. mostly with noise..and les noticibly (but still noticable) is frequency response... an amp with a s/n Ratio of 76 DB's and a +/-3db frequency range from 20-20khz can mean up to 6db's of difference between some notes.. DEFINITELY can hear the difference... also with amps damping factors..and more importantly(for subs only) an amp slew rate... As far as taking 10 regular kenwood, Cerwin Vega, Blaupunkt, MTX, SONY....and add in a Zapco amp in the same steup using actual reference speakers.. There's a difference....Not a very noticable one, but play some DVD Music (high bit recordings, 96MHZ processing rate) and you can really hear a difference..Using $300 Speakers and add in all the acoustical anomalies of cars then.. well no.. no dam difference except noise, and Distortion.. IF Richard Clarke can't hear the diff between a Sony Xplod and an ARC audio amp.. then tell him to run Jensen amps in his next setup and see what he says bro [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].. Cheers Mohawk |
wow, I just read all of that. I feel very smart right now. thanks guys. |
Good grief. :) |
<< Good grief. :) >> Thinks it's alot now give it a few weeks lol |
I know I'm entering into this a little late, but I just wanted to tell you about my experience with my systems that I've had with my stock 105 amp alt. Well...first of all, I want to say that the efficiency of the subs and amps you are using seems to make quite a difference in how much power is drawn. For instance: I had a Clarion ProAudio APA-1200 (300wRMS @ 2-Ohms) with two 12" Punch XLCs wired in parallel. Now...even with bass CDs and my subs being pushed to their limits, my battery guage would barely even move...most of the time it was unnoticable. Now...a friend of mine had a pair of those cheap 10" Pioneer IMPP subs that you get at Wal-Mart. He wanted to see what they sounded like, so we hooked them to my amp. The same amp that pushed my Punch XLCs, with little current draw, made my battery guage drop to around 10-11 volts with those pathetically inefficient 10's. Also, now that I have my L7s with my JBL BP-1200.1, I've noticed a huge amount of draw. I'm sure part of it is because I'm only using 8-guage power wire and 18-guage speaker wire, but I don't think it would make a huge difference...I mean, my manual specifically says that I can use 4 or 8 guage power wire. Anyway, another thing to consider is what frequency the bass is that you are listening to. If you listen to music with higher bass (above 40hz), you can easily run the kind of power that you are talking about on a stock alt...but when you get into the deeper bass, your amp requires a lot more power. For instance, when I listen to my usual rap music or the radio, most songs don't cause my battery guage to move much. Some songs, like Country Grammar by Nelly, are a lot deeper and require more power to play the deep bass. I was listening to some rap with deep bass the other day, going 60 Mph down the highway (my alt should have been producing plenty of power at that point). I didn't have my headlights or stereo on, and my battery guage was dropping clear into the red area. After a half hour or so, I noticed that my bass wasn't hitting quite as hard, and my amp and CD player actually started turning on and off...I shut my stuff off and drove a few more minutes, thinking that might help. Anyway, I shut my car off when I got to where I was going...only to find out that my battery was completely dead! I had to get a jumpstart...and my battery was so low that my first attempt at starting my car simply killed the truck of the person jumping my car. I turned my key, and his truck died instantly! Anyway...all I'm saying is that a stock alt might be able to power a system okay...but if you want any charge left in your battery, it's definately good to upgrade. I mean, mine puts out at least 105 amps...but it still isn't enough. My sub amp's peak power consumption is 114 amps...plus you have to take into account things like my other amp, my headlights, my heater/AC, etc. When I get my Civic, I'm going to run 4-guage cable with 12-guage speaker wire...that should help some...but I'm going to have to do something about my alt. I mean, assuming that the stock alt is 70 amps, then my BP-1200.1 can draw up to 44 amps more than what the stock alt can put out!! |
In the above post, I said I didn't have my headlights or stereo on...but I meant my headlights or heater. Lol...I'm tired...worked today, been up since 10 am...now it's 3 am...sorry! |
Yet another example of what sometimes works.. and othertimes leave someone stck by the road with a dead battery :shake::shake:..neon..for that 8 guage is definately not enough.. Nothing less than 4 guage is accepatable (8 will work bu the wire has too high of a resistance at that raw) also 18 guage speaker wire is a wee bit small[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].. once you upgrade things should be "ok" as long as you don't crank it too much.. but there's the reasons for upgrading.. Cheers Mohawk |
sorry, im in san ho right now, gonna be here for awhile, so cant raelly respond to anything. anways, sorry neon you got that problme, maybe me and everyone on CAF and all my friends and everyone I know who has high power stereo sytems are just lucky, i dunno. that sucks dude! again, with all the ppl on this forum having alternator problems i can see why everyone here is in an alternator frenzy! i give up tho. ive done my best to contribute to what happens in a stereo and a car during high current draw, and all teh theory in the world dont mean jack if you are having alt problems. like i said, Ive never had a problem, all my friends have never had a problem, noone in chat on CAF has a problem, and most of teh ppl in the forum dont have problems with thier alternators (stock or otherwise, tho over 90% have stock, i assure you). I assumed that the theory was correct cause in 90% of the cases, stock alternator was fine. if it sucks for you, well, that just sucks, man. I can play for 4 hour straight at high draws and have had no problems, not even an amp overheating (now that i replaced the sub amp [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]) but my experience surely is not the norm, especially on this forum. i dunno, maybe I am the lucky one, along with all my friends, and the 10,000 users of CAF. *shrug* again, you have my sympathy, that sucks man. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/IMG] |
The Biggest actual problem with our Civics alts is they have NO fans to keep em cool....as you know when an alt gets hotter it's output drops.... Also..your onlly running your amp at 600Wrms.. wait till you run it at 1200 then see how well your system takes it and how your voltage meter holds it (it may..I actually wanna know how it does hold up with the 1200watts as oppsed to 600).. get back when ya can.. Cheers Mohawk |
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