Turbocharger Market Survey 2001-2004 Civic
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Turbocharger Market Survey 2001-2004 Civic
Hello, first time post although I have read for some time.
I am a Mechanical Development Engineer for an engine design firm based in Aachen, Germany. I have also worked as a Product Development Engineer at Cummins Engine Co. I am currently working in the US on a Tier 2 engine development program.
I own a 2001 Civic EX and have been considering putting together a professional turbocharger kit. This would be with turbo maps, injection pressure requirements including fuel mapping and timing requirements, and predicted flywheel output.
This would also be a system designed with engine durability in mind. I do not know the critical design parameters of Honda engines; however, I can estimate the thermodynamics and fluid flow and keep the engine within some reasonable limits.
I have considered that 11-1/4 psi boost would take the 128 hp version to 206 hp. I make no promises on your engine durability and give you know garentees, but I can give people an idea of where they could run without failures or short block overhauls.
The turbocharger I have in mind could put our 22 psi boost... so for people that want to drag race... your A/R settings and wastegate settings are up to you.
Questions:
What would you realistically pay to have a turbocharger set up that would move the engine to about 200 hp.
Would you be able to do such a modification yourself if given an FYI video.
What are other things you would consider for a turbo set-up to be something you would purchase.
Please leave answers through this thread and I will read them periodically. If I believe a market exsists for such a product, I could develop it by Summer, 2003.
I am a Mechanical Development Engineer for an engine design firm based in Aachen, Germany. I have also worked as a Product Development Engineer at Cummins Engine Co. I am currently working in the US on a Tier 2 engine development program.
I own a 2001 Civic EX and have been considering putting together a professional turbocharger kit. This would be with turbo maps, injection pressure requirements including fuel mapping and timing requirements, and predicted flywheel output.
This would also be a system designed with engine durability in mind. I do not know the critical design parameters of Honda engines; however, I can estimate the thermodynamics and fluid flow and keep the engine within some reasonable limits.
I have considered that 11-1/4 psi boost would take the 128 hp version to 206 hp. I make no promises on your engine durability and give you know garentees, but I can give people an idea of where they could run without failures or short block overhauls.
The turbocharger I have in mind could put our 22 psi boost... so for people that want to drag race... your A/R settings and wastegate settings are up to you.
Questions:
What would you realistically pay to have a turbocharger set up that would move the engine to about 200 hp.
Would you be able to do such a modification yourself if given an FYI video.
What are other things you would consider for a turbo set-up to be something you would purchase.
Please leave answers through this thread and I will read them periodically. If I believe a market exsists for such a product, I could develop it by Summer, 2003.
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Rep Power: 0 I would definitly be interested in the turbo kit, given there is detailed information on the whole setup, i would definitly still want engine durability to be a factor! Price range as cheap but high quality as possible! I would be able to install it with an informational video.
Definitly would love this!!
Definitly would love this!!
El Pinche Turbo Mexicano
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From: Monterrey, MEXICO
Rep Power: 0 there are some members on the site that are running 8psi turbo's and have about 200hp to the wheels, and the problem is that the internals and fuel system have to be upgraded in order to run more boost.......
Hail to the king baby
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From: NorCal
Rep Power: 315 Considering you can get a K20A engine swap for around $4K installed,
I would pay around $2,300 for the kit.
What would you realistically pay to have a turbocharger set up that would move the engine to about 200 hp. $2,300
Would you be able to do such a modification yourself if given an FYI video. Depends if I have the tools, but Yes.
What are other things you would consider for a turbo set-up to be something you would purchase. -== most definately higher compression pistons, and also stroger valves ==-
I would pay around $2,300 for the kit.
What would you realistically pay to have a turbocharger set up that would move the engine to about 200 hp. $2,300
Would you be able to do such a modification yourself if given an FYI video. Depends if I have the tools, but Yes.
What are other things you would consider for a turbo set-up to be something you would purchase. -== most definately higher compression pistons, and also stroger valves ==-
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From: Erie, Pennsylvania, US
Rep Power: 0 Matt here,
Let me clarify a few questions that have come up.
The system would include the injectors and "chip", this would be the fuel mapping for the turbo configuration. It would also come with a cold-air intake for the inlet side of the compressor.
This would be a complete kit in full. This kit would not include an intercooler... that would be extra.
Concerning the K20A engine... I am not familiar with this engine, if it takes up the market of a turbo then I would not pursue the opportunity to develop such a package.
Concerning piston and valve upgrades... piston compression ratio needs to decrease when turbocharging, and valve heat disipation would not be an issue in low boost applications.
The ignition timing would need to be retarded to keep BMEP (brake mean effective pressure) down, otherwise, pre-ignition (knocking) will occur.
I do not have the intention of developing a system that requires people to rebuild there small block (rods, grudeon pin, piston, rings). If you are doing that then I agree that an engine swap may be a better alternative.
The talent required to swap or rebuild an engine is generally much high than that required to "bolt a turbo on".
So for people that don't have dynamic balancer, triple-beam, cylinder hone, experience, whatever, this would be a no-brainer to get to 200 hp.
Concerning getting 200 hp with 8 psi boost; unless the cams and injectors are dramatically different, there is not enough enthalpy to get 240 hp @ flywheel (200 hp @ tires). I would need to see the torque curve on a roller dyno to believe the engine is putting any more than 165 hp at the tires.
Run your quarter-mile time and I'll tell you how many true horsepower you have.
Let me clarify a few questions that have come up.
The system would include the injectors and "chip", this would be the fuel mapping for the turbo configuration. It would also come with a cold-air intake for the inlet side of the compressor.
This would be a complete kit in full. This kit would not include an intercooler... that would be extra.
Concerning the K20A engine... I am not familiar with this engine, if it takes up the market of a turbo then I would not pursue the opportunity to develop such a package.
Concerning piston and valve upgrades... piston compression ratio needs to decrease when turbocharging, and valve heat disipation would not be an issue in low boost applications.
The ignition timing would need to be retarded to keep BMEP (brake mean effective pressure) down, otherwise, pre-ignition (knocking) will occur.
I do not have the intention of developing a system that requires people to rebuild there small block (rods, grudeon pin, piston, rings). If you are doing that then I agree that an engine swap may be a better alternative.
The talent required to swap or rebuild an engine is generally much high than that required to "bolt a turbo on".
So for people that don't have dynamic balancer, triple-beam, cylinder hone, experience, whatever, this would be a no-brainer to get to 200 hp.
Concerning getting 200 hp with 8 psi boost; unless the cams and injectors are dramatically different, there is not enough enthalpy to get 240 hp @ flywheel (200 hp @ tires). I would need to see the torque curve on a roller dyno to believe the engine is putting any more than 165 hp at the tires.
Run your quarter-mile time and I'll tell you how many true horsepower you have.
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From: Jacksonville, Fl
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No intercooler? EEkk, you NEED an intercooler to Turbo this engine; the compression is just too high. Anyway, The price id pay depends on several things:
-Quality of components?
-Turbo type/size?
-Fuel management type?
-Intercooler?
-Turbo Timer?
-Installation?
-Engine Modification?
-Injectors?
-List not limited to the above
If youre asking about market share for turbo kits for 7thgens, well, there is none. So, if you make it, and it's decent, you should make a killing. I was gonna make mine after I graduate from grad school, but if you make a decent one I'd pick one up.
Brad
-Quality of components?
-Turbo type/size?
-Fuel management type?
-Intercooler?
-Turbo Timer?
-Installation?
-Engine Modification?
-Injectors?
-List not limited to the above
If youre asking about market share for turbo kits for 7thgens, well, there is none. So, if you make it, and it's decent, you should make a killing. I was gonna make mine after I graduate from grad school, but if you make a decent one I'd pick one up.
Brad
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From: Glendale, AZ
Rep Power: 0 dude you are doing EXACTLY what i want to do when i graduate. im acurrently working on my ME degree also.
can you please contact me? i'd like to know how to take my degree into that field. i have a couple of questions for you but i cant pm you because you are a new member..thanks
sandman880@hotmail.com
can you please contact me? i'd like to know how to take my degree into that field. i have a couple of questions for you but i cant pm you because you are a new member..thanks
sandman880@hotmail.com
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From: lamarque(southofhtown), Other, ZEBRA
Rep Power: 0 well ytou can count me in if the fuel system is changed as well,,i could get an intercooler for dirt cheap anyway,,if all the parts sub intercooler came with it id pay at least 3K,,and bluisgod is right,,if you made a non ghetto turbo kit youd maker a killing
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From: so cal djmota=oscar
Rep Power: 323 i woul definatly pay 3500 for a PROVEN reliable kit w/ no intercooler. fuel upgrade would be a must. I am positive that I could install everything myself. With printed or dvd/video instructions. Intercoolers are easy to come by.
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From: Whittier, California, US
Rep Power: 0 There is a place in Van Nuys, Cal. that they sell turbo w/ intercoller for our civics. $3400
TURBO PERFORMANCE
TURBO PERFORMANCE
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Rep Power: 0 are u out of ur mind??? u guys must be crazy or something?? go buy a damn H22 swap for around 2gs or something and pay the extra for installation... they could make it fit in there and i know for sure u would leave out of the shop WITH an H22 under the hood for less than 4gs!
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From: San Diego, Ca
Rep Power: 383 If it had all the parts necessary and it was a direcrt bolt I would spend like $3500, but I still wouldn't be able to install it myself because I know almost nothing about cars, but I would love you finially get some horsepower out of our cars. Hope comes out with one soon.
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From: NH
Rep Power: 0 You guys are out of your damn minds paying that much for a turbo kit that will only give you 200whp at the max! For 4g's you can buy a K20 Type R motor with everything icluded installed that will give you 200whp stock! With a few bolt ons you could surpass 220whp! K20 Type R is where my money is going!
