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New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

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Old Sep 4, 2012
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New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

04 Civic LX 170k, new motor (870mi)at 162k....

I had an ex manifold leak for, my best guess, around 3 months, had a new mani/cat put on the car and now after it sits idling/running for a while and I take off, a cloud of blue smoke pours from the back of the car.

I noticed about a week and 1/2 after the mani/cat work that the oil was low...turned out it took almost 2 quarts to bring it back to normal.

I also notice the car doesnt start as smooth/quickly, a slight hesitation before it fires up.

The gas mileage was much lower with the leaking ex manifold, and that is back to normal again....32mpg roughly

So what would cause the blue smoke? I havent checked for any error codes btw.
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Old Sep 4, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

Originally Posted by geo2515
So what would cause the blue smoke?
  • Overfilling the crankcase with oil
  • Incorrect oil grade
  • Operating engine at greater than a 15 degree angle
  • Inoperative crankcase breather
  • Crankcase air leak
  • Blown head gasket
  • Worn cylinder and/or rings
  • Turning/Tilting the engine on its side for any reason (storage, changing oil, etc). If the engine has to be tilted, ensure the spark plug is facing upwards to help prevent oil from escaping the crankcase.
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Old Sep 4, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

Trying to think logically here.....it was running fine with the cracked ex manifold except for the gas mileage issues.

The motor itself is newer than the other components. I am certain that I checked and added the oil properly so Im ruling that out.

What could have happened that is making the car burn oil now...Im guessing its not the ds sensor because the mpg has gone back to normal...does the computer need reset?

What could the cracked ex manifold have damaged if anything?
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Old Sep 4, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

Ummm
04 Civic LX 170k, new motor (870mi)at 162k....

I had an ex manifold
So, an LX manifold contains the catalytic converter, while an EX does not. The EX has its cat further back underneath the car.

Does this car no longer have ANY cat at all?
A cat can hide a large amount of oil smoke. Removing the cat could be the reason you notice smoke now.

new motor (870mi)at 162k
What does "new motor" mean?

Brand new?
Rebuilt?
Used?
Partial renew? (New block/original head, etc.)
Where did it come from? Who did the work?

If it was a used engine with only 870 miles: How was it stored, and how was it prepared BEFORE it was stored?
Could it have been overheated in the crash (the reason it was in the salvage yard in the first place)?

Many variables are in play here.





guessing its not the ds sensor because
What is a ds sensor?

idling/running for a while and I take off, a cloud of blue smoke
Smells like valve stem seals (or oil is being pulled past the valve stems for SOME reason), assuming the rest of the items on the list above is correct.

Valve stem seals tend to leak more during periods of high vacuum, while rings tend to cause increasing smoke with increasing engine RPM.


HTH
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Old Sep 4, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

Yes the ex manifold/cat converter (all one piece) was replaced

New motor means the motor came from a car that was crashed but the engine was not compromised......side/rear impact, etc... the dealer it came from inventories motors and trans of 99 and newer cars...the motors are inspected/cleaned/stored in a warehouse. I bought the motor only...everything else is original to the car including the exhaust.

It was installed at a honda dealership and I had them inspect it before it was put in. I trust the dealership because I know the tech that did the work.

DS sensor=downstream exhaust sensor

The smoking smell is noticable most of the time but it can be clearly seen when the car is at idle for 5 or 10 minutes and then on take off a blue cloud blows out of the tailpipe.

Im taking it back to the shop that did the ex manifold job tomorrow..they did the last work to it before it started smoking.

Remember...It was NOT smoking at all before the manifold/cat was replaced
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Old Sep 4, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

Originally Posted by ezone
Ummm
So, an LX manifold contains the catalytic converter, while an EX does not. The EX has its cat further back underneath the car.
Whoa, I missed that all together. Glad you saw it.

Originally Posted by geo2515
Yes the ex manifold/cat converter (all one piece) was replaced

Remember...It was NOT smoking at all before the manifold/cat was replaced
Did you understand what ezone was trying to tell you? The EX manifold DOES NOT have the cat converter on it. The LX manifold DOES have the cat converter located on it. It's a one piece set for the LX (cat converter/exhaust). If you have and EX manifold and your vehicle is an LX then you have NO cat converter.

Originally Posted by geo2515
DS sensor=downstream exhaust sensor
No such beast on these vehicles. If you're talking about the oxygen sensor below that cat converter (if you have and LX exhaust manifold) I can see that, but that in itself will not cause blue smoke.

Originally Posted by geo2515
Remember...It was NOT smoking at all before the manifold/cat was replaced
Well, based on what you're telling us I can only think you over filled the oil and now your crank is stirring it up and your burning it. If the motor has 870 miles on it and it didn't smoke at all before the cat replacement, then that's all I can think the problem is. Otherwise I think you have worn cylinder/piston rings and it just happened to show up at the same time you changed your cat, which I highly doubt.

Let's see what ezone has to say.

Last edited by Matt_75; Sep 4, 2012 at 08:33 PM.
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Old Sep 4, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

Originally Posted by geo2515
Yes the ex manifold/cat converter (all one piece) was replaced
So, the car has no cat now?

DS sensor=downstream exhaust sensor
No such beast on these vehicles.
All OBD2 vehicles have downstream O2 sensor(s) to monitor the cat activity/function (O2 storage capacity).

The primary purpose of the secondary O2 sensor is so the PCM can make sure the cat actually works.
A secondary purpose is controlling fuel trim. Yes, it has some influence over fuel control at certain times.
Think if it like this: A computer and an engine (nowadays) has one main purpose, that is to keep that cat alive. Thank the EPA for that. Moving the car down the road is secondary.


Originally Posted by Matt_75

Let's see what ezone has to say.

The only way I can see any exhaust parts having anything to do with smoke is removing a cat that was hiding excessive smoke, and now it is noticeable.
A cat that works takes out almost all of the raw exhaust smell too. I sure can smell when I'm near something that doesn't have a cat on it. Actually, after years of exposure to exhaust fumes, I'm kinda overly sensitive to it now.

Oil smoke is caused by an engine problem, not exhaust. The engine is the source of the oil consumption, burning, and blue smoke, no matter what.
A properly working cat can hide a lot of that smoke.
But oil burning also slowly poisons the cat.



Oil smoke diagnosis is usually determined by figuring out when (operating conditions) it smokes the most.
A working cat can make it tough to tell exactly when an engine smokes, and how much it is really smoking.
Unless it is just a horrendous amount of smoke.
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Old Sep 5, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

Originally Posted by Matt_75
No such beast on these vehicles.
Poor choice of words there. I should have just said it's not an exhaust sensor, it's an O2 sensor.
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Old Sep 5, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

I guess I shouldn't abbreviate.....

When I say I had the ex manifold replaced, Im saying the exhaust manifold (ex)

The replacement part was an LX exhaust manifold/catalytic converter which replaced the original LX exhaust manifold/catalytic converter

The engine now has just over 8k miles on it. I was put in when the odometer read 162k, it now reads 170k. The oil has been changed and so forth as normal.

ds sensor, downstream exhaust sensor....again I am talking about the downstream O2 sensor but scratch that because I think I am meaning to refer the upstream O2 sensor which regulates the air/fuel ratio.

The oil loss/burning is definitely not excess or too much oil being filled and burning off... the oil has been brought to level twice in 2 weeks and is then going below normal.
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Old Sep 5, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

If any more clarification is needed please ask...to me it makes no sense at all what is going on. I personally think it is an issue with a computer setting or a sensor not responding properly.

I doubt it is a major engine problem but I dont know. The exhaust manifold was cracked/leaking for at least 3 months, the check engine light was on and at the last oil change the tech ran the code and said it was the exhaust manifold that was causing it.

To sum up, the car was running fine minus the lower mpg with the cracked exhaust manifold/catalytic converter. It runs far better now with the new exhaust mani/cat converter but when the car is running at idle, like at a long red light, and then take off smoke comes out from the tailpipe. I can generally smell exhaust when I am just sitting, its faint but I can notice it where before I could not.

If it is a blown gasket I would be seeing oil right? I dont see any leaking oil from what I can see under the hood and no oil on the ground.

Trying to think of what is wrong that a new exhaust manifold/cat converter is making appear now where before it did not. Now it is burning oil and smoking...before it was not.

If the valve stem seals are damaged/worn/not working, why would they be? Did the running of the cracked exhaust manifold cause this to happen and now it is showing?
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Old Sep 5, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

Is it possible that your replacement motor has been burning oil right along, and the old cat was eating it, and masking the problem? So if the replacement cat isn't the same quality and can't process oil in the same way the old one did, it now looks like a new problem. You would be able to answer that question if you have been closely monitoring the oil level during the entire 8K you've put on the new motor. And when you say it runs "much" better after the new parts, what's your criteria for that? Have you been able to run multiple fill-ups to get accurate gas mileage? If so, how much better is the MPG now? How about taking it back to your tech friend and get his opinion? Shouldn't take him long to determine if there's an engine problem, or maybe a clogged PCV system.
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Old Sep 5, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

The oil has never ran low before, I have never had to top it off between oil changes and the oil has always been relatively clean. So, no it wasn't being burned off and not noticed before.

The mpg was improved immediately, I got 380 miles on the last tank from full to E light...and the car seems to run a bit smoother than before, in fact it runs perfectly aside from the oil eating and smoke issues.

I went to the shop that did the mani/cat job this morning and talked it over with him, his opinion is worn rings-oil is not being pulled out by the rings properly and burning up. Then I took the car to the local Honda dealer for an oil/filter change and talked it over with a tech....the opinion is that it seems most likely to be worn rings...so I guess I need a compression check done. I will relay the results of that when I get that done, prob not until next week.

I thought the rings wore out under high heat, and wouldn't the interior temp gauge read that?
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Old Sep 5, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

Thanks for explaining your first post a bit better. Clears up your terminology misuse a bit.


Originally Posted by geo2515
The oil has never ran low before, I have never had to top it off between oil changes and the oil has always been relatively clean. So, no it wasn't being burned off and not noticed before.
When was the last oil change done?
How many miles are on the oil that is in the engine right now?

The mpg was improved immediately, I got 380 miles on the last tank from full to E light...and the car seems to run a bit smoother than before, in fact it runs perfectly aside from the oil eating and smoke issues.
Hmmmmm.....

Earlier you said there was a code:
the tech ran the code and said it was the exhaust manifold that was causing it.
but you didn't post the actual code number. I'd like to know exactly what it was.

Cat code or fuel trim code?

Was the manifold cracked and noisy? (That can cause rich running.)

Had the cat substrate (the honeycomb element inside it) broken apart? Where was the break, top or bottom? (If broken at the top, pieces could have entered the engine and caused internal damage.)

What happened to the original engine? What failed?



Theory: If the engine had been running excessively rich, this could have diluted the oil, falsely raising the oil level. Now the rich running problem got fixed, and now the fuel has burned out of the oil, resulting in what appears to be a sudden drop in the oil level. Panic ensues.

Hey, it's just a theory at the moment.






How many miles per quart of oil is it consuming?
1000 per quart?
3000 per quart?

If you get a fresh oil change, would it still consume oil? (Using a correct oil, of course.)
What kind of oil are you using? Brand, weight, type, etc.
Should be 5W20.


I went to the shop that did the mani/cat job this morning and talked it over with him, his opinion is worn rings-oil is not being pulled out by the rings properly and burning up. Then I took the car to the local Honda dealer for an oil/filter change and talked it over with a tech....
Your description so far leads me to think it is valve stem seals, but I can't be there to SEE how and when it smokes. I might form a different opinion if I saw it myself.



the opinion is that it seems most likely to be worn rings...so I guess I need a compression check done. I will relay the results of that when I get that done, prob not until next week.
A compression check cannot tell you the condition of the oil control rings. They could be completely missing and you would still see perfect compression readings.

I thought the rings wore out under high heat, and wouldn't the interior temp gauge read that?
An overheat event can collapse the rings, meaning they lose their spring tension, and not seal against the cylinder walls. It only takes one thermal event to trash them, and it would be a very noticeable event if it happened. The cylinder head would be badly warped if it overheated bad enough to hurt the rings. (Assuming this engine has never been opened up or head pulled off.)

Miles, oil condition, and air filters (dirt) all contribute to the actual wear of the rings.

Carbon buildup causes rings to stick in their grooves, and not seal against the cylinder walls.





I wonder what the plugs look like. I wonder if they show white ash buildup, or some other sign of oil burning.




Here is something else to think about: If that engine only had 800 something miles on it, it may have never completed a proper break-in period. A Honda rep (this was around 2006 or so, IIRC) told us they want their new cars to run a minimum of 5000 miles (or to 15% on the oil life monitor) before the first oil change, because they run a special oil for break in when they are new.



Storage prep and sealing at the salvage yard may have a lot to do with your current problem too.
I have more theories than these.
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Old Sep 6, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

The oil/filter was changed yesterday, Honda 5w-20....the previous oil was in the car for just over 4000 miles...I always run it in to the local honda service so the oil/filter is standard issue.

I added 3-1/2 ounces of Lucas the day of the oil change

The code that was on my Honda ticket at the last oil change was PO420....

I also looked at the ticket at the time the "new" motor, slowly beginning to doubt that, was installed and the oil/filter was changed at that time...dont know if it has any meaning that it was changed to regular oil so soon but I thought Id add that.

The original motor-and this is where this post dies btw-had a spun main bearing, mostly due to neglect on my part. I have literally treated this car(since the new motor)like it was my dads...meaning I have not run it hard or done anything but normal driving...and have changed the oil routinely.

As for the condition of the exhaust manifold, they told me it had a long crack toward the top where it bolts to the cylinder head.
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Old Sep 6, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

The oil/filter was changed yesterday, Honda 5w-20.
Did you check and make sure the level is correct now?
I'd say to just drive it and see what your consumption rate really is now. Check it at every fill up.

I added 3-1/2 ounces of Lucas the day of the oil change
Why? You think the oil isn't good enough? The oil in the bulk tank at the Honda dealer SHOULD be a GF-5 from the Conoco-Phillips distributor, that meets all of Hondas specs. The closest brand name you could buy at a parts store would be Kendall GT1 Ultimate Synthetic 5W20.
I am not a believer in additives, at least not without purpose.


I also looked at the ticket at the time the "new" motor, slowly beginning to doubt that, was installed and the oil/filter was changed at that time
Could you explain this statement more?
You doubt it was a new engine? I'm missing something....


dont know if it has any meaning that it was changed to regular oil so soon but I thought Id add that.
I'm strongly thinking it is related to my improper break-in theory.

C&P from your 04 Civic owners manual:

Help assure your vehicle’s future reliability and performance by paying
extra attention to how you drive during the first 600 miles (1,000 km).
During this period:

Avoid full-throttle starts and rapid acceleration.

Avoid hard braking for the first 200 miles (300 km).

Do not change the oil until the scheduled maintenance time.


You should also follow these recommendations with an overhauled
or exchanged engine, or when the brakes are replaced.


See, changing the original oil too soon can lead to oil consumption problems.
The first oil change on an 04 Civic should have been at 10,000 miles. Seriously. (Maintenance, page 139 in the owners manual for a sedan.)

Here is another C&P form a Service News article:

What’s really important to remember here is this:
Don’t change the factory-fill engine oil because it
looks dark; just make sure it’s at the right fluid
level. To ensure proper engine break-in, the
factory-fill engine oil needs to remain in the
engine until the first scheduled maintenance
interval.

Maybe an idea could be to rerun the break-in period so the rings can seat. If the problem is really the rings. You still real sure that engine only had 800 miles on it? If it is a high mile engine (the seller lied??) this won't help. Engines don't normally smoke during the break in.


Again, the storage of that engine could have a lot to do with what is going on now too.


Just thinking out loud.


The code that was on my Honda ticket at the last oil change was PO420....
Cat efficiency. Average problem.
they told me it had a long crack toward the top
Also an average problem, they do that. A likely cause of lousy gas mileage.

Still want to know if the cat element had broken apart, but you probably aren't going to find that out.


Still not seeing any connection. Drive it with the fresh oil change and see what the consumption rate is now. Document miles and oil levels, check it under the same conditions every time you check it. Level ground, all warmed up and driven, just shut off, hasn't sat more than one minute yet.


The original motor-and this is where this post dies btw-had a spun main bearing, mostly due to neglect on my part.
Nuff said. Thanx.



HTH
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Old Sep 7, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

Checked the oil today....level is good

I called the place the motor came from and asked if they had any notes or info about the motor, what happened to the car it came from, how it was kept.

They looked it up and their report says it was from a 2005 civic that was hit in the side/rear of the car and had caused damage to the unibody. Insurance co. totaled the vehicle, and they(the salvage co.) purchased the vehicle and removed the engine and transmission. The parts are stored in a climate controlled warehouse crated/unwrapped. The ticket I have and the salvage co. records verified that the motor had 775 miles on it at the time the crash.

So now for my own theory....the motor sat assembled in a warehouse for almost 5 years, just sitting on a shelf. Something has had to have dried out in five years time whether it be seals or something pertinent to being lubricated by oil.

The break in oil thing is real, is called a honda tech this morning and they said new cars do have an additive rich oil that should stay in the car for a minimum of 5,000 miles.

In short Im probably screwed in more ways than 1...i am going to check the tech slip again to see what gaskets and seals were replaced when the new engine was put in my car.

Thats all for now besides I am noticing the car smoking issue is more noticeable after the engine is warmed up and been running a while.
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Old Sep 7, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp


So now for my own theory....the motor sat assembled in a warehouse for almost 5 years, just sitting on a shelf. Something has had to have dried out in five years time whether it be seals or something pertinent to being lubricated by oil.
Ummm, only partly assembled.

The "dried out" is not going to be related to gaskets and seals. I don't see that as being the cause of excess oil smoke.
"Dried out" would be the oil film that should have been protecting the cylinder walls though.

Rust in a cylinder or two could be a good possibility. At least one or more cylinders would have had valve(s) open during the entire time it sat in the "climate controlled" warehouse. (Guessing that means it has a roof, and possibly some walls. That's about all that any of the junkyards here have.)
Moisture in the air would cause cylinder walls to rust if the engine didn't have a coating of heavy oil on the cylinder walls to protect them during storage, and have all of the holes and ports sealed up to keep moisture out.

Now that it has been running, if there was rust it would now be seen as pits in the cylinder walls.
The oil control rings can't scrape the oil out of the pits on the cylinder walls as the piston goes up and down...
The pits trap and hold oil, and allow it to go up past the rings on every stroke and be burned.

Bingo, excessive consumption and smoke.

The break in oil thing is real, is called a honda tech this morning and they said new cars do have an additive rich oil that should stay in the car for a minimum of 5,000 miles.
I wasn't kidding.
I work for a dealer.

And YOUR owners manual says it should have been run to 10,000 miles on the factory oil fill (or one year, whatever came first).

But again, I haven't seen a new engine smoke with oil consumption during the break-in period. Oil consumption rates might be a wee bit higher during the break-in period until the rings get completely seated, but smoking like you describe means there is a problem.

If what I am thinking is true, the only way to truly fix it is a teardown and get machine work done to the block, and possibly oversize pistons and rings (depending on how bad it is).
Another engine would probably be cheaper, these can usually be had for pretty cheap.

I'd probably run it through this oil change anyway, monitoring oil consumption.
Is it still smoking, even with the fresh oil change?

Is there any warranty on the used engine that you can take advantage of? Talk to the engine supplier, let them know what trouble you are having. See if they will do anything. Some care more than others. Maybe they will want to see it for themselves, IDK.

Time to pull the sparkplugs and see if any show signs of oil burning, either black and wet, or hard, white, crusty ash buildup. (Might be too soon to see it though.)


I wonder if anything could be seen with a borescope or endoscope.
That would prove something, but you need to know which cylinder(s) have the biggest problem so you know which ones to study.



HTH
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Old Sep 8, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

What you've said about the possible engine damage due to storage all sounds logical and possible, Ezone. But there's one thing I'm having trouble understanding. If there was engine damage due to storage (or anything else for that matter), how could Geo have put 8K on it without losing oil, smoking, or any other major problems? And then suddenly to have all of this happen right after the recent work? It doesn't make sense to me, but not being a pro, I'm probably missing something (which wouldn't be the first time)
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Old Sep 8, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

I have no idea.
I'm sort of thinking this might have been going on for a while before it was really noticed. I just can't fathom (yet) how replacing the manifold and cat would directly cause oil consumption, as the OP described. Does not compute so far.

I still want to know what the sparkplugs say. Which cylinders are burning the oil?
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Old Sep 8, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

I can pull the plugs and take same pics...its raining here today so asap I'll do that.

I can probably do the compression check myself, just need to have the manual or laptop beside me when I do it. I have a Haynes Repair Manual that has the procedure...is that a valid source for info, route me to a better one if possible.

My buddy has a compression gauge that I can use...as for a leak-down test, I doubt I can handle that on my own so it may need to go to a shop for that.

I have been keeping a close eye on the general performance since the oil change...I actually did not notice the exhaust smell nearly as bad on Friday, and didnt see the smoke when I expected to..car running idle, take off, then see the smoke....I guess I can say it is better after the oil change but too soon to tell for sure. At any rate, it was clearly burning oil for some reason prior so....go figure.

Ezone...you said earlier that the oil could have become diluted when the car was running rich...do you mean that because of the o2 sensor reading less exhaust in the stream that it caused more fuel to be injected and possibly gas/fuel was pulled into the oil mix(by the piston rings)and then falsely raised the oil level, was then burned off, and oil level dropped?

So after the oil was changed, if that theory is good and Im understanding you correctly, there shouldn't be any more oil consumption and smoke?
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Old Sep 8, 2012
  #21  
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

I can probably do the compression check myself, just need to have the manual or laptop beside me when I do it. I have a Haynes Repair Manual that has the procedure...is that a valid source for info, route me to a better one if possible.

My buddy has a compression gauge that I can use...as for a leak-down test, I doubt I can handle that on my own so it may need to go to a shop for that.
It's simple. Pull all 4 plugs out, screw the tester in the first hole, mash the gas pedal to the floor, and crank it.
Crank it until the gauge maxxes out and won't climb any higher. (Probably at least 10 hits.)

Repeat until all 4 are tested.

Compression test is much easier/faster as a 2 person job. One to watch the tester and call the shots, the other to stab the gas pedal and crank the engine when needed. See if your buddy will come with the gauge, and I would hope he knows how to use it if he owns it.

If the compression test is good, there is no point in doing a leakdown test.







Ezone...you said earlier that the oil could have become diluted when the car was running rich...do you mean that because of the o2 sensor reading less exhaust in the stream that it caused more fuel to be injected and possibly gas/fuel was pulled into the oil mix(by the piston rings)and then falsely raised the oil level, was then burned off, and oil level dropped?
That's pretty close, and the oil level drop is exactly as you said when it happens... Diluted oil is much thinner than fresh oil, and can be burned (or leak) at a much faster rate.

However, the engine would have had to be running very rich to do it. (HEY didn't you say you replaced an oxygen sensor too? Depending on the failure, that could contribute to it.)

"Blow-by" is the main cause, and that happens during the entire time the engine isn't at operating temperature (still happens at operating temps too, just lesser extent of it). Excessively rich mixture can cause the oil film to be literally washed off of the cylinder walls, allowing fuel (atomized or liquid) to seep past the rings.

Same thing happens when the engine is only run on short trips without achieving operating temperature and holding it there for any extended period of time. Winter driving/short trips is just hell on an engine.

It used to be far more prevalent back in the days of carburetors, a stuck choke would flood the engine with fuel--extremely rich mixture.
Driving short trips = cold running = extremely rich mixture.

These days (fuel injection), it is mostly due to poor running and cold running.

This slowly raises the oil level, while at the same time oil is being consumed normally (ALL engines consume oil - by design), so the APPEARANCE of the "oil" level on the dipstick either didn't change at all, or actually raised if there was enough gas in it..
You got several hundred miles of this, or even several thousand miles, through daily use.
Now someone decides to take a highway trip. "Oil level" looked ok before you started out.....After an hour or two of driving, the heat in the engine has boiled the raw gasoline out of the oil and burned off. Oil warning light comes on, you check it and it is 4 quarts low. "Where did it go?" becomes the question that most users just can't or don't want to understand. It is a normal phenomenon that isn't often taught.


I have seen valve covers literally blown off of an engine because of gas fumes in the crankcase exploding.





HTH, and hope this made sense. I've been distracted the whole time I typed this.
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Old Sep 11, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

An update on the situation....and I am really confused now

First off I havent checked the plugs yet or done the compression test....I wanted to monitor the car for a couple of days and see what is happening.

The smoke has become more noticeable( by sight now instead of a faint smell ) since the oil and filter change, 2 differences is the oil level isnt dropping, if anything it has risen for some reason...and the smoke coming out is white not blue....like smoke from a roman candle hanging in the air. The smoke before lingered as well but was definitely bluish in color.

I have checked the oil every day and to me the oil seems thinner than it should be. It def has a smell to it that is not oil, not sure what coolant smells like but it smells more like gas anyway.

This is exactly what happens when the car smokes....I have done this about five times today.

I drive it around for about a 10 minute trip and let the engine warm up then come back home and let the car idle for maybe 2 to 3 minutes. Then I just press down the gas pedal and let off and woosh a cloud of white smoke pours out for maybe 2 seconds.

That is all for now...any ideas on this? Where do I even start diagnosing the problem?
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Old Sep 11, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

Also...link me to video posting instructions or breifly explain....can I use a photobucket link?
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Old Sep 11, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp


The smoke has become more noticeable( by sight now instead of a faint smell ) since the oil and filter change, 2 differences is the oil level isnt dropping, if anything it has risen for some reason...and the smoke coming out is white not blue....like smoke from a roman candle hanging in the air. The smoke before lingered as well but was definitely bluish in color.
How much is it gaining on the dipstick?

Is it losing coolant? How about brake fluid?

Oil can appear white too. It is actually very faint blue.
Fuel, antifreeze, and water will be white too.

Smoke checks:
Water (steam) dissipates pretty quick.
Antifreeze has a sickeningly sweet smell and hangs in the air for a long time.
Oil.....well....oil smells like.......maybe an old lawnmower? Also hangs in the air forever.
(Raw) fuel in the exhaust, well it doesn't happen very often but it can smoke like antifreeze but with an obvious gas smell.


I have checked the oil every day and to me the oil seems thinner than it should be. It def has a smell to it that is not oil, not sure what coolant smells like but it smells more like gas anyway.
You have viscosity trained fingertips? You are that sensitive? WOW!

Dealer probably put 5w20 in, that's already pretty thin.

Antifreeze in the oil can make the oil have the appearance of chocolate milkshake, if there is enough coolant in there. Trace amounts may be invisible to the naked eye.

Gas in the oil: Pull the dipstick, wipe it with your thumb and finger. Now rub your thumb and finger together. Does it feel "gritty"? (Compare to fresh oil if you have to.) Fuel makes it feel sorta gritty. You could also light the oil on fire with a Bic lighter on the dipstick if there is enough gas in it.


Also...link me to video posting instructions or breifly explain....can I use a photobucket link?
I just copy the address and paste in the text. Automatically links and stuff here.
Photo linking: See the tiny icon that looks like a postcard or letter (above the text box you respond in) Hover your cursor over each icon and read them. Should say "insert image".

Click it, then paste the address of the pic in that box.

HTH

Last edited by ezone; Sep 11, 2012 at 07:40 PM. Reason: I love to edit!
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Old Sep 11, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

Here is a video...nevermind

Ill post up tomorrow when i figure it out
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Old Sep 11, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o196/geo2515/?action=view¤t=CAM00388-Copy.mp4


I honestly can't tell much from that. Sorry.
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Old Sep 12, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

I figured...cell phone camcorder

I need a checklist of what to do to figure this out. Being low on scratch and patience with this car I will either do this myself or send it to auction.
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Old Sep 12, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

Don't freak out yet, you only have-- what, 4 days on the fresh oil change?

Run it for a while (drive normally for a few thousand miles) and see what happens. Check the oil level when you fill the gas tank.


I don't have a checklist, I just have stuff filed in memory.
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Old Sep 13, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

Since the check engine light isnt on and the car is not overheating I am a bit confused about what is going on...in case you havent figured it out I have little knowledge about fixing a car. I will probably get another car over this because Im getting alot of heat from my better half...this car was paid off 4 years ago and I spent a pile of cash having that motor swapped and trans rebuilt. Spending more money on this car isnt going to go over well. Hey, lessons learned right? Anyway, enough of the --->

My idea is to keep the car and fix it myself, what the hell right, I doubt I get anything on a trade in and sounds like an opportunity to learn something. Alright last time with the I promise.

Is there a OBD scan tool that is affordable and will tell me info on the sensors...are there any sensors that will not cause the check engine light to show if they are not working properly?

What is a good reference(book, manual, repair guide, etc..)to have for working on my car?...2004 Honda Civic LX

Oil analysis...who and where can I have an oil analysis done?

A reliable OEM parts supplier? I could search but some of you know this off the top of your heads

Symptoms of a stuck or leaking fuel injector?...this has been on my mind, curious to know what it would do if it happens

As for valve problems and smoking cars....my car obviously smokes after it heats up so what valves if any are likely going bad or are bad.

Oil control rings....what is the spacer between the oil control rings made of and what happens of it becomes thinner and the upper and lower side rails become loose? (Im talking about the bottom ring assembly only, the #3 ring)

That is all....
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Old Sep 13, 2012
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Re: New ex manifold...now blue smoke from tp

spark plug pic
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