Doing a transmission fluid change
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Doing a transmission fluid change
As mentioned in my other post I am going to do a trans fluid change, I have done a flush on my F250 but had some questions about the civic from what I have read already.
From what I have read some flush the trans by doing multiple drain and fills and some just drain and fill-which is all the dealer was going to do for 65 bucks. I read flushing can be bad for the transmission.
So is drain and fill once with just under 3 quarts the "right" way to do a trans fluid service at 30,000 miles?
I've read there is a filter but honda doesn't have a service life for this, so should I just leave it alone? I've always had transmissions that I changed the filter when doing fluid changes.
And I assume I should only use the honda ATF-Z1 that my book recomends?
Thanks for any advice on servicing the transmission!
From what I have read some flush the trans by doing multiple drain and fills and some just drain and fill-which is all the dealer was going to do for 65 bucks. I read flushing can be bad for the transmission.
So is drain and fill once with just under 3 quarts the "right" way to do a trans fluid service at 30,000 miles?
I've read there is a filter but honda doesn't have a service life for this, so should I just leave it alone? I've always had transmissions that I changed the filter when doing fluid changes.
And I assume I should only use the honda ATF-Z1 that my book recomends?
Thanks for any advice on servicing the transmission!
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Re: Doing a transmission fluid change
you should always change the filter at least every few yrs at the minimum. technically you should do a drain and fill every year and change the filter every year or two. this fluid doesnt last much longer than that. its good fluid but has a short life. never use anything except the z1, other fluids can destroy the trans.
if your car is 2010, you can probably switch over to the new honda DW1 fluid which is full synthetic. do several drain and fills to ensure most of the old stuff is replaced. if your car is a year old or more, do one drain and fill with z1. doing a second drain and fill with old fluid in there can cause issues. you want to slowly replace the fluid so start doing one drain/fill each year.
if your car is 2010, you can probably switch over to the new honda DW1 fluid which is full synthetic. do several drain and fills to ensure most of the old stuff is replaced. if your car is a year old or more, do one drain and fill with z1. doing a second drain and fill with old fluid in there can cause issues. you want to slowly replace the fluid so start doing one drain/fill each year.
Last edited by gearbox; Dec 14, 2010 at 06:55 PM.
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Thanks for the advice gearbox.
I have a 08. I wonder why Honda wouldn't recomend changing the filter? Would be more money and less problems for them I would think.
I have a 08. I wonder why Honda wouldn't recomend changing the filter? Would be more money and less problems for them I would think.
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The only thing I would ever recommend is a three quart drain and fill, if you need more than three quarts to get the fluid back in shape I would advise waiting at least one oil change before changing more fluid.
Heres why: your transmission like any other mechanical parts sheds small pieces of metal and particles of the clutch packs as they wear down. Over time those particles get caught up in the gears, against the casing, etcetera, transmission fluid has a detergent proper that prevents to much build up from developing in one spot and damaging the transmission. Over time the fluid degrades in performance and small particle deposits begin to form, when you add new fluid the improved detergent performance will break away those deposits. The key is not breaking away to much material at once, because to many particles broken free at once will plug the internal fluid filter. A full fluid change will clean out every inch of the transmission at once, and will likely cause the damage mentioned above. A three quart change that only moderately improves the fluids overall cleaning properties only knocks some of the debris free, which will be mostly be caught on the magnetic drain plug without causing any damage. Full changes have a proven reputation on this site for destroying well functioning transmissions.
Yes, only use ATF-Z1, do not use after market or DW-1.
The only way to change the filter is to remove the transmission from the car lol, the service life is essentially the life of the car/trans.
Heres why: your transmission like any other mechanical parts sheds small pieces of metal and particles of the clutch packs as they wear down. Over time those particles get caught up in the gears, against the casing, etcetera, transmission fluid has a detergent proper that prevents to much build up from developing in one spot and damaging the transmission. Over time the fluid degrades in performance and small particle deposits begin to form, when you add new fluid the improved detergent performance will break away those deposits. The key is not breaking away to much material at once, because to many particles broken free at once will plug the internal fluid filter. A full fluid change will clean out every inch of the transmission at once, and will likely cause the damage mentioned above. A three quart change that only moderately improves the fluids overall cleaning properties only knocks some of the debris free, which will be mostly be caught on the magnetic drain plug without causing any damage. Full changes have a proven reputation on this site for destroying well functioning transmissions.
Yes, only use ATF-Z1, do not use after market or DW-1.
The only way to change the filter is to remove the transmission from the car lol, the service life is essentially the life of the car/trans.
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Makes sense, I have read about trannys going out after doing a full flush.
I was a little confused about the filter, from what I read the gen 7s filter was in the tranny but thought I had read the gen 8 had a filter outside under the battery or something?
I was a little confused about the filter, from what I read the gen 7s filter was in the tranny but thought I had read the gen 8 had a filter outside under the battery or something?
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I wish I had an 8th gen, so I could go outside and look under my battery right now.
Honda has it listed as a non-serviceable item, just like the 7th gen filter, so I assumed its inside the casing. If its external I would change it, I have no idea why Honda would list it as non-serviceable if its external though..
Honda has it listed as a non-serviceable item, just like the 7th gen filter, so I assumed its inside the casing. If its external I would change it, I have no idea why Honda would list it as non-serviceable if its external though..
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I haven't looked yet but from what i have read it does but honda lists it as non serviceable. I don't know much about my civic yet still learning so could be wrong but here is a picture I got from a how to from a different forum, not sure if it's against rules to link to other forums so I will just post the picture.
Like I said I'm not an expert but have been trying to do as much reading as I can.
Like I said I'm not an expert but have been trying to do as much reading as I can.
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Its totally acceptable to link to other forums, if you quote from another forum just remember to give credit to the original poster.
I can't seem to find why its not changeable, I'll do more research when I have time to try to discover the exact reason, but for now I'll post this article I found.
I can't seem to find why its not changeable, I'll do more research when I have time to try to discover the exact reason, but for now I'll post this article I found.
Non Serviceable Transmission Filters
Automatic transmissions are becoming more complex every year. Once controlled by vacuum, modern transmissions have been transformed into computer command centers made up of various solenoids and other electronic gadgetry that control the operation of the transmission.
New technology brings changes to transmission filter service maintenance. Some manufacturers require literally no scheduled maintenance. Several auto manufacturers have no scheduled maintenance until the vehicle has 100,000 miles on the drive train.
Non serviceable transmission filters were introduced in the 70s. Almost every manufacturer now has a transmission that is non serviceable. Caution and care must always be taken when replacing any transmission filter. The non serviceable ones require extreme scrutiny. Non serviceable transmission filters consist of four different styles. Almost every automatic transmission has a filter that could be replaced. The term non serviceable means that a partial or total disassembly of the transmission and other related internal parts is required for filter service.
The first style is one that does not have the traditional pan. The transmission case consists of two pieces split vertically. For any internal repairs (including filter replacement) the transmission needs to be removed and disassembled into the two halves.
The second style has a primary filter located internally and one or more secondary filters accessible through a gasket sealed pan. Replacing the primary filter would require partial or total disassembly of the transmission.
The third style has the primary filter located internally, and an external accessible filter. Two examples would be either an external spin on or a cooler line style filter. Replacing the primary filter, would require partial or total disassembly of the transmission.
The fourth style also contains a pan and gasket. Special circumstances are attached to this filter replacement. A valve body or other parts may need removal with the filter. Sometimes this type may appear simple to an inexperienced individual trying to change the filter. Many problems could occur when attempting to change the filter. Loose nuts, misadjustment, and internal component damages are just a few of the problems associated with servicing this type of transmission. Attempting to change the filter on this type of transmission could lead to a shorter life of the transmission, a premature break down, or a major overhaul.
Before changing any transmission filter, (especially late models) always refer to the instructions when included in the kit or the manufacturer's service manual for proper filter service.
Automatic transmissions are becoming more complex every year. Once controlled by vacuum, modern transmissions have been transformed into computer command centers made up of various solenoids and other electronic gadgetry that control the operation of the transmission.
New technology brings changes to transmission filter service maintenance. Some manufacturers require literally no scheduled maintenance. Several auto manufacturers have no scheduled maintenance until the vehicle has 100,000 miles on the drive train.
Non serviceable transmission filters were introduced in the 70s. Almost every manufacturer now has a transmission that is non serviceable. Caution and care must always be taken when replacing any transmission filter. The non serviceable ones require extreme scrutiny. Non serviceable transmission filters consist of four different styles. Almost every automatic transmission has a filter that could be replaced. The term non serviceable means that a partial or total disassembly of the transmission and other related internal parts is required for filter service.
The first style is one that does not have the traditional pan. The transmission case consists of two pieces split vertically. For any internal repairs (including filter replacement) the transmission needs to be removed and disassembled into the two halves.
The second style has a primary filter located internally and one or more secondary filters accessible through a gasket sealed pan. Replacing the primary filter would require partial or total disassembly of the transmission.
The third style has the primary filter located internally, and an external accessible filter. Two examples would be either an external spin on or a cooler line style filter. Replacing the primary filter, would require partial or total disassembly of the transmission.
The fourth style also contains a pan and gasket. Special circumstances are attached to this filter replacement. A valve body or other parts may need removal with the filter. Sometimes this type may appear simple to an inexperienced individual trying to change the filter. Many problems could occur when attempting to change the filter. Loose nuts, misadjustment, and internal component damages are just a few of the problems associated with servicing this type of transmission. Attempting to change the filter on this type of transmission could lead to a shorter life of the transmission, a premature break down, or a major overhaul.
Before changing any transmission filter, (especially late models) always refer to the instructions when included in the kit or the manufacturer's service manual for proper filter service.
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the 8thgen does have an external fluid filter that should be replaced. it came on the 01+ HX, 06+ civic, 03+ rsx and many others im sure. it does get clogged fairly quickly and just has a thin membrane type filter inside. those are certainly a maintenance item and the dealership here keeps them in stock cause they are always selling out. i rigged one up on my 02 but a lil too late. im not sure if the 06+ also has a filter inside the trans. i am assuming it does. but the external def needs to be changed. they are around $20 and one bolt to undo for the bracket to come off. then squeeze the hose clamps and slide the old one off. careful not to spill fluid everywhere, and add some fluid to the new one. you will need to recheck the fluid level after changing the filter and driving the car at least 30 mins thru all the gears to warm the fluid. check trans fluid with the engine still running after warming up.
Last edited by gearbox; Dec 14, 2010 at 09:29 PM.
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Thanks for the advice.
Do you have any idea why honda says this doesn't need to be serviced? I'm going to change it because every other trans flush I have ever done includes a filter change but just seems weird that honda would say that you don't need to change a filter that they could be making money off of selling them to people.
Do you have any idea why honda says this doesn't need to be serviced? I'm going to change it because every other trans flush I have ever done includes a filter change but just seems weird that honda would say that you don't need to change a filter that they could be making money off of selling them to people.
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well they are not always that informed on what needs to be changed. when i asked the dealer here, they say they always recommend it during a trans fluid service. in no way is it a lifetime part. even our 7thgens with only internal filters will cause trans failure by 100k miles due to clogging. too bad the whole trans needs to be taken apart to change it. at least you have an external filter on yours.
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I brought my 07 in for tranny service, and asked to change fluid and change filter. they told me they never change the filter-not necessary.
So i bought my own and when it warms up I will try to access the filter again.
It is in a hard spot to get to, so I need some more time ( and patience) to do so.
It looks like the old fuel filters and is external on the R18/8th gen package, so why do they not change it ? I do not know.
John G.
So i bought my own and when it warms up I will try to access the filter again.
It is in a hard spot to get to, so I need some more time ( and patience) to do so.
It looks like the old fuel filters and is external on the R18/8th gen package, so why do they not change it ? I do not know.
John G.
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It's weird that Honda wouldn't want to change it and charge more for the tranny service at dealerships. How much did the filter cost and do you know the part number off hand? I was trying to find a part number just so I had an idea of how much they cost before calling the dealer. I looked at rockauto and the only trans filter they had was an internal one.
I picked up 3 qts of Z-1 last night for 25 bucks so will do the trans service in the near future. I read about others using 12 qts to "flush" the system by repeated drain and fills until all new fluid was in but I don't think I can justify 100 bucks in fluid since the dealer only does 1 drain and fill. Also as mentioned by mindbomber totally changing the fluid can lead to bad things, I have read this about other vehicles also.
Have to do that and flush the brake fluid on the civic and also need to do a coolant, trans, and brake fluid flush on grandmas 04 impala so will do them at the same time. Will be a busy weekend of fluid changes! But I ordered the mityvac brake bleeder to help out.
I picked up 3 qts of Z-1 last night for 25 bucks so will do the trans service in the near future. I read about others using 12 qts to "flush" the system by repeated drain and fills until all new fluid was in but I don't think I can justify 100 bucks in fluid since the dealer only does 1 drain and fill. Also as mentioned by mindbomber totally changing the fluid can lead to bad things, I have read this about other vehicles also.
Have to do that and flush the brake fluid on the civic and also need to do a coolant, trans, and brake fluid flush on grandmas 04 impala so will do them at the same time. Will be a busy weekend of fluid changes! But I ordered the mityvac brake bleeder to help out.
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I brought the car in because it was shifting "funny" and they found a broken motor mount which was under warranty- had them change the fluid anyway.
They did not flush it - it was dump and fill- and I had done the first 3 qts about 2 months earlier when I changed the oil, so at this point I am pretty sure to leave the fluid alone for another 30,000+ if at all.
The external filter is my next goal. I also found in the service manual there is an internal strainer- but this is a whole other ballgame.
It was maybe 20$ ??? for the filter . I don't remember it being outlandish.
pick up 3 qts and a crush washer if you change the fluid. You can only get 3 qts out at a drain, and the whole system is about 7-9 qts.
They did not flush it - it was dump and fill- and I had done the first 3 qts about 2 months earlier when I changed the oil, so at this point I am pretty sure to leave the fluid alone for another 30,000+ if at all.
The external filter is my next goal. I also found in the service manual there is an internal strainer- but this is a whole other ballgame.
It was maybe 20$ ??? for the filter . I don't remember it being outlandish.
pick up 3 qts and a crush washer if you change the fluid. You can only get 3 qts out at a drain, and the whole system is about 7-9 qts.
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For the 2007:
Part # 25430-PLR-003 $20.02
I am not sure the part # changes per year, but I doubt the part is actually different for any of the 8th gen models.
I will attach a picture next chance i get.
Part # 25430-PLR-003 $20.02
I am not sure the part # changes per year, but I doubt the part is actually different for any of the 8th gen models.
I will attach a picture next chance i get.
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there is only one filter for every model and year that came with it. and i suggest doing a trans fluid drain and fill every year (or two years if you dont drive much). that honda fluid doesnt last very long.
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