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Ok before you all start flaming about reading the sticky, I already have.

It doesn't really talk about application. Yes I know a turbo after a tune will cost 6k, and that a swap after a tune will cost nearly 8k. But what I'm more concerned about it application of the power. My goal being somewhere around 180whp and a good amount of torque to match.

I like to run the canyons...a lot. My car is completely setup for it. I would like a swap because I don't have to worry about boost kicking in mid turn. But I'm curious. I saw dezods post about the pnp head making nearly 200whp and 200wtq with 5 psi. Is it all tuning that will help me manage the power in the canyon? Or do you think a turbo is just to crazy for a fwd in the canyons?

Help I've really been thinking about this for awhile, I'm still not sure what direction I want to move towards.

 
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For your goals turbo would be the best route and cheaper at that in my opinion. Dezods turbo has really quick spool so I don't think you'll have to worry about lag. Also if you keep mild boost and nothing too high you should have adequate traction. A swap would be fine too but after mods and kpro it might run you a few more grand then turbo. Just something to consider.

 
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Theoretically swap. The power is more linear, but for as illegal and stupid as screwing around on public roads is.... stick a big *** turbo on there, and a wing, so when you fly off the cliff..... maybe you wont go straight down.

 
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Thats why I really want to swap but its just so much dinero.
I appreciate the comment about flying of the cliff. I hope your new motor blows up, that way you can repaint the horrendous strips you have on there.
When you have lemons make lemonade. I don't have easy cheap access to tracks so I do what I can. Just like you could paint that engine way nicer, but instead its soo....Tony The Tiger.

 
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so much hostility

 
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in the end its all up to you. the swap can be cheaper( i am talking about the swap itself ) if you and some friends can do the work yourself. with both you have the ability to go on with your needs.

 
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A paint job wont kill me or anyone else. You doing stupid *** **** when you dont know how to control the car will. Track time isnt cheap. But its a hell of a lot cheaper than killing someone or totalling a car. So get your *** out of narrowminded land and look at the bigger picture.

 
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How do you know I put the public in danger?
Is it not my risk to total my car?
How do you know I don't know how to control my car?

Assumptions maybe?
That sounds pretty narrow-minded to me.

Not to mention how your attitude on this forums is so condescending. I'm here to learn and ask questions, not to be put down by people like you. So please if you have nothing nice to say, don't say it. Didn't your momma teach you so?

Ronaldo are you boosted? Any dyno charts I can take a peek at to see the curves? Trying to look for a dyno that doesn't have more than 6psi of boost.

 
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You put the public in danger by driving like an idiot on public roads.
You risk totaling your own car, BUT your stupidity also risks the lives and property of others... which you are responsible and they DO NOT assume the risk for your stupidity. You live in california, they practically invented modern negligence law, you ought to figure out just how ****ed you'd be, and thats just on the civil end of it. Then add on criminally negligent homicide, reckless driving, prolly street racing, need I really go on about how stupid it is?
How do I know you don't know how to control your car? Well call it a hunch, but if you cared enough to really, truly learn how to drive well, you'd take the $6K you're about to waste and put it into 30+ track days you can buy for the same amount of money, get instruction in a controlled environment with someone who knows how to drive.
So I'm not thinking narrowmindedly at all. You are, all you're thinking about is yourself, and not everyone else you endanger through driving recklessly down a public road.
You may think I'm an ***, but honestly I could care less. There's nothing nice to say and there's the down right honest truth. And you just got the truth, unsugarcoated. Learn how to deal with reality.

 
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Sounds like Boilermaker1 needs to blow off some steam.

Boggie1688 racing on public roads is not wise nor is it safe.

My friends and I go to the mountains with our "Bikes" (motorcycles) we do not "RACE" but we do drive above the posted limit. We are safe and conscious of others and drive within our means. I see nothing wrong with this. Driving above the posted speed so long as you are within your and your vehicles limits is fine. Who am I to stop you, when you start to endanger the lives and well being of those around you then it is a problem.

 
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I know its not safe or wise.

As for track days, boilermaker you know I recently did a rear disc swap for track days. Its always been a goal of mine to get on a track and go all out. Its even been a goal of mine to get an instructor.
Here is the thread where I state I'm building the car for the track, you replied too. (https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...t-arrived.html)

I didn't say I was going right now to spend 6k on a turbo or a motor swap. I started this thread to gain information. As of right now I'm saving money to hit up on of the speedventure track events.

I understand the risks of driving fast in canyons, I don't do it to often because I do know its dangerous. My buddies and I do it on roads that are deep in the mountains that require 45mins to and hours to reach. We do it from 1am to 7am. I'm not trying to justify what I do, just explain to you we try to keep things safe.

I think you are giving me too little credit here, and bashing a little way too hard at the same time. Please tell me you all drive the speed limit 24/7/365, if not your guilty of the same and you should bash yourself just as much as you bash me.

 
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There's a difference between "speeding" and driving like a maniac. Trust me, I have friends who have totalled cars. Fast cars, rare cars, crappy ones, doing stupid stuff. I learned not to do it through people I knew ruining themselves. The fact of the matter is you cant predict whats gonna be on the road. Grandma, a tractor, sand, gravel, a puddle, etc... Regardless of where you do it, it still dumb.
Doing 75 down the interstate, is no where near the same level of stupidity as going as fast as you can down a dark 2 lane winding road. It isnt an initial D cartoon... the dirt pile next to the road is real, and it probably hurts if you hit it. Driving in excess of the speed limit by 5-10 mph is no where near "the limit". I'd consider it, at least around any major city, par for the course (if its actually not a jam), and under any circumstances, isn't recklessness. If I want to drive like hell... I'll be on the track where there's nothing else to run into.

 
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who said he was driving like a maniac...i dont think ive seen one time that he said...im going to the canyons to drive like a maniac.. i think everybody should just chill. thats why alot of people are starting to not liek this forum. i support this place cuz it helps alot, not because people get to bash other people. please guys just chill. boilermaker you help alot of people out, you couldve spent that time writing all that crap, writing to help some other guy out. do u really think he gives a **** what you said?? he doesnt...IN REALITY. and sorry Boggie i dont really know what to decide. i dont know anything abotu canyons here in florida so i dont know how a boosted or a swapped car would handle on a canyon road. hope u find what ur looking for tho....hey school for driving is 6k? .....garsh

 
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Totally agree, which is why I'm doing my best to prep this car for track and to get out there.

And D17sRuNtunable, driving school at willow or was it button is like nearly 3k for the 2 or is it 3 day school. But you get a lot of seat time and instruction.

Now lets just agree that tracks are the best...and get back too..BOOST or SWAP?! I'm talking about usable power that is controllable in turns going in, out, and around! Not straight line.

 
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I never knew it got that expensive for driving school. Thats crazy, I wanted to get some classes on drifting, I think it would be fun to learn. Good luck with w/e u diecide tho.

 
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^ each day is what, 300 bucks with a lesson, or cheaper if your looking at autox. (not to have this thread go off on a tangent.. but I think you should have a skid control class instead of a drift class if you wanna pay for something at the track)

Anyways, umm... I'm all for backroad driving when there arent any people around to accidentally crash into. I drive my backroads in the mid afternoon on weekdays, hardly anyone out there ever at that time. But a few words of advice... know the road you choose to drive on if your going to be pushing your car at all, know your own limits, and dont drive at night time and push your car... too many things can happen out there. If some animal comes out, your car is most likely going to get some damage... which sucks, you could crash, and no1 would find you for several hours... you could die and a number of other factors like a blown tire on a high speed curve, etc. Anyways, I do drive on public roads and "push" my car but I dont push it to its limits to a point where I would hurt myself or others. For one, I've learned how to control my car in the event of a slide or if the car looses grip with the road and I experience a loss of control- I know how to restore traction and stay on the road safely, and most importantly, I never push my car at night time on the back roads- wayyyy to much **** could go down. Yes, its a public road, and yes others drive on it... but I believe if you follow the rules (stay in your lane, dont pass others in a non passing, dont do any moves that are unexpected by other drivers, dont rip your ebrake, slam on your brakes, take a turn in excess beyond your cars limits), and are a good driver, not jus believe the notion that your good and incontrol of your car, then you arent at any more of a risk as someone who is driving in excess on the highway. Now thats highly debatable... (one second of distraction on technical back roads is not the same as one second of distraction on a straight highway)- it boils down (excuse the pun) to how good of a driver you are, your knowledge of the car and its capabilities, your decisions, and your level of safety.

*stretch* yeah... something like that.

 
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Skid control. I think willow had something along the lines of a fat flat square patch of road and they spray water all over it and teach you how to control the car in wet situations. Or you can do what I do, I find one of those huge parking lots(usually colleges have nice big flat ones, try to stay away from the light polls) and I go out after it rains and play with the car.

I guess this thread is officially JACKED!

So I'll give some pointers we have for canyon racing.

1. Go with a group.
2. On the way up, keep an eye out for dirt and large rocks. Pull over and kick the dirt off and move the large rocks. (These rocks can blow ur tires, I've seen it happen).
3. We run down then back up. Therefore when we leave the meeting point we tell the rest of the drivers we are going down and coming back up so they know not to run down and possibly meet us coming back up.
4. Try not to go above 7/10s of ur driving skill.
5. Learn the road gradually.
6. Don't double lane unless your are absolutely sure you don't have oncoming cars. ( I usually only double lane at night, and so far every time I've done it I've had 3 cars in front of me)

Driving tips with the Civic
1. If you understeer, throttle off a bit and let the tires regain traction. If you have enough power, I have been told to just point in the direction you wanna go and power out. Don't EVER slam on the brakes, you lock the front and continue going straight.
2. Try to get all your braking done before the corner, unless you know the limits of your traction and have ball big enough to late brake.
3. Left foot brake on a FWD when done properly can quicken your times and also induce an oversteer. By getting lightly on the brakes and staying on the gas you are locking the rears causing them to slide. (Haven't tried this, its too crazy to try it on the canyons, hence I'm waiting for a track day)
4. Oversteer...this seems pretty explanatory most ppl have the general idea of how to control this.

??5?? This happens every so often to me, and I dunno why my car does this. But if I enter a corner and suddenly get of the gas while I'm turning the car's rear slides out a bit, not like oversteer almost like the car is rotating. Haven't gotten a chance to try this on purpose, no track day yet.

Maybe Boilermaker can add more tips of driving the civic.

 
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i believe it is technically oversteer only because of how hot ur comin into the corner... and when the car bogs when u get off the gas... pavement and tire are separate and the car begins to catch momentum....

 
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yeah i dont understand why people have to flame. They can just answer the question or dont answer the question.

Overall, i would say a swap about be better because like others have said since its NA there is more linear sense of power and easier to predict. You can also turbo the car later since k series responds better to turbo then a D series.

You can go turbo, but your going to have to do more research. With turbo you get alot more torque which is great, but then you have to figure out where you want your power band to be. You can put your power band in the high end say around 4k-6800rpm canyon's, but you lose power in the low end for Daily driving and vice versa.

Unless you really love your civic. If you want a swap just sell the civic and buy a used Type S. I've seen Type S go for around $14-16k.


Here you go, I found a Type S for $11k on craigslist.

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/car/330624555.html


Or you can buy a cheap 240sx and go turbo later.

 
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Hey Temjix!!

You back home in so cal now huh? I hope everything is going good for you.

I really do love my civic, and I plan on making her my dedicated track car after I graduate, get a job, and get a new dd. Sigh...I really dunno what I'm going to do. I think I've already invested to much in the car to sell it.

 
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so is it safe to say that i can go cannyon running with my bike? cuz if i hit a car, they'll most likely surrvive and ill die...

hahahha jk boilmarker1

anyways, ive learned my lesson about driving wrecklessly when i totalled my 02 accord coupe. totally beautifully modded...8k+ spend into mods.

ALL GONE WITH IN A SPLIT SECOND..... so.... lesson learned? DONT DRIVE WRECKLESS

i took a curve too fast (bout 35mph) n i guess there was some sand on the ground....lost traction...and BOOM....into a tree... but funny thing is i take that curve daily around 35mph...just some minor alteration on the road and my car wasnt able to perform as it was suppose to...


SAME CAN BE APPLIED WITH CANYONs

 
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hey man,

yeah i'm back in so cal. i just go a job in irvine for chase. I'm the only integra at work in a sea of BMW's, mercedes and porches. I'm thinking of turboing my integ once i pay off my credit cards or getting a audi a6 2.7t awd. I think i'm slowly growing out of the modding stage. But i'm probably going to go to the eibach meet this weekend. I want to check out this integ that got converted to rwd with mid engine h22.

but back on the swap, sometimes you just gotta cut your losses man. $15k civic +8k for a swap = $23k. You can buy a used s2000 or evo for the same money. Those cars are going to handle better stock then a swapped civic.

 
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Sorry, didn't know my input would jack the thread... I was just suprised how expensive it got. No canyons in florida tho, just straight highways woot

 
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OH **** I've seen that on the integ forums...its white right? Take some pixs for me.

It will be awhile before I turbo or swap...at least 2 years. Maybe by then it will be a bit cheaper. Btw does the dezod turbo pass smog?

 
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I'm pretty sure it wasn't just your input bro...

 
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yeah its white. It took the guy 2yrs to do. Its almost as crazy as the guy who was doing the rwd prelude with the ls1 engine.

I checked the dezod site and it doesn't mention a carb legal certification on there site. The only manufacturer that i know of that makes carb legal turbo kits is greddy, except they dont make any turbo kits for the 7th gen except for the SI.

I'm sure the kit will pass the actual smog test, but it will fail the visual since it has no carb legal sticker.

If you do swap, you still have to bar it and smog it every 3 yrs after your 5yr grace period. All cars made after 01 get a 5yr grace period from smog then after that they have to smog every 3yrs.

 
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I can still try to woohhoo the guy at the smog shop right? With a couple bucks.

btw can you link me to the integ thread about that car? Thanks!

 
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k20z3 i/h/e cams and valvetrain and k-pro tuned

 
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So I was checking out this ecu for my friends jetta last nite. The company is called ARP. They have something called the EMCS, which included a feature called FLIPSWITCH.

Flipswitch - Enables you to swap between two or more engine programs on-the-fly using the cruise control stalk. All cars have stock and standard chipped program versions available. Valet, race-gas, and other specialty programs are available for some models.


Is there anyway to tune the turbo on a civic, one setting for high performance for track/canyon and another setting for daily driving? I don't know how the ecu is controlled when you have a turbo, hence thats why I gotta ask.

 
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your power band is mostly dependent on the size of your turbo and the spoon time on it. Tuning will help but you can't move your power band around with tuning. Tuning just helps you to get more power out of your turbo and to keep your engine from going boom.

I would talk with the turbo experts more though. I'm still researching turbo myself. My plan was to have my fully spooned by 5k and have a 5-8k power band. Turbo requires a lot more research then a swap would. I wanted to stay out of boost from 1k-4k for gas mileage reasons.